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DBS speed problem

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We already scale them to their attack speed. However, an explosion caused by an energy sphere is not their own attack speed. Just because I can throw a grenade doesn't mean I am as fast as the explosion it causes.
 
CR_Catinho said:
you're missing the point

beerus reacted to and nullified the explosion after it happened , he outsped it , therefore he should scale to it . this grenade analogy is a terrible one.
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Well, I agree, but I can also see their viewpiont that it is absurd that Whis fastest speed is below heavly restrained Beerus fight against SSG Goku.
 
CR_Catinho said:
you're missing the point

beerus reacted to and nullified the explosion after it happened , he outsped it , therefore he should scale to it . this grenade analogy is a terrible one.
Click to expand...
You're missing the point. I have already made it clear why that assumption is not provable and the other alternative is more likely. The grenade analogy was brought up as a response to a different point.
 
AKM sama said:
You're missing the point. I have already made it clear why that assumption is not provable and the other alternative is more likely. The grenade analogy was brought up as a response to a different point.
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then elaborate , all i remember is u making the weird analogy and claiming they don't scale to it .

we don't even want to scale them to the speed of the explosion , but rather to beerus reacting to said explosion .

the explosion did happen , and beerus nullified it before it even reached earth , knowing that this explosion should be as fast as the shockwaves .

it's not that complex
 
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@AKM sama

Sorry but I disagree. The speed of the explosions from their ki blasts is still their same attack speed, not some vastly faster or slower speed like your grenade analogy, and they objectively can and do outrun the explosions from their ki blasts as well even from point blank range like I outlined above with Goku outrunning the explosion from Frieza's ki orb the moment it detonated while touching him.



I will in fact post several more examples now from anime, manga etc. to prove my point that DB characters are in fact as fast or faster than the explosions of their ki blasts across all mediums.

1. Frieza causes a ki explosion at Goku's location by flexing, which he not only dodges but is able to cover the distance between himself and Frieza in an instant after.

2. Goku outruns the explosion from Frieza's energy ball at point blank range as soon as it explodes.

3. Trunks moves faster than the explosion from his Ki blast after it detonates in front of him on Black.

4. Gogeta base form moves faster than the ki blast explosions that are closing in on him from SSJ Broly.

5. Gohan saves Piccolo, Trunks and Goten by outpacing Buu's self destruct explosion.

6. Gohan dodges and outpaces an explosion from Buutenks ki blast.

7. Syn outruns the explosion of Goku's energy blast. (I know it's GT, but its still a good example)



So they are objectively as fast as the explosions from their ki blasts consistently. There is no reason to believe this would be different. Whether the attack detonated or not is honestly not relevant. We know it would have moved at such speeds if it had, based on Whis and the kais statements and reactions to the light and clash, and the characters scale to the speed of their ki blasts, including the explosions, so would scale to that theoretical speed to. It's no different than giving them universe busting power for an attack that never actually busted the Universe, but theoretically would have, its just applying the heavily implied speed to that feat.
 
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SSJRyu1 said:
@AKM sama

Sorry but I disagree. The speed of the explosions from their ki blasts is still their same attack speed, not some vastly faster or slower speed like your grenade analogy, and they objectively can and do outrun the explosions from their ki blasts as well even from point blank range like I outlined above with Goku outrunning the explosion from Frieza's ki orb the moment it detonated while touching him.



I will in fact post several more examples now from anime, manga etc. to prove my point that DB characters are in fact as fast or faster than the explosions of their ki blasts across all mediums.

1. Frieza causes a ki explosion at Goku's location by flexing, which he not only dodges but is able to cover the distance between himself and Frieza in an instant after.

2. Goku outruns the explosion from Frieza's energy ball at point blank range as soon as it explodes.

3. Trunks moves faster than the explosion from his Ki blast after it detonates in front of him on Black.

4. Gogeta base form moves faster than the ki blast explosions that are closing in on him from SSJ Broly.

5. Gohan saves Piccolo, Trunks and Goten by outpacing Buu's self destruct explosion.

6. Gohan dodges and outpaces an explosion from Buutenks ki blast.

7. Syn outruns the explosion of Goku's energy blast. (I know it's GT, but its still a good example)



So they are objectively as fast as the explosions from their ki blasts consistently. There is no reason to believe this would be different. Whether the attack detonated or not is honestly not relevant. We know it would have moved at such speeds if it had, based on Whis and the kais statements and reactions to the light and clash, and the characters scale to the speed of their ki blasts, including the explosions, so would scale to that theoretical speed to. It's no different than giving them universe busting power for an attack that never actually busted the Universe, but theoretically would have.
Click to expand...

I agree, but have you seen the universal+ Ichigo, Aizen and Yhwach?
 
Sooo, can anybody actually prove the DB cast are way slower than their ki explosions, because if not, as my post above shows, they consistently are comparable.

We have an approximate timeframe and distance for the speed of the Universe destroying explosion from Beerus and Goku's Universe busting energy ball, therefore just like we give them the AP for that attack, I see no reasonable argument as to why the same wouldn't apply for giving them speed for that attack which they would logically scale to, detonated or not, based on multiple pieces of objective proof from the series indicating they are as fast as their ki attacks, including explosions very specifically.

I still see nothing factually wrong, incalculable (we have approximate time and distance), or assumed by saying

"MFTL+ (Should be comparable to the speed of the explosion from the ki ball which Goku and Beerus created, which the kais and Whis thought would have covered all of Universe 7 in mere moments)"

I mean if it was really necessary I could even write a note detailing how they are consistently as fast as not only their ki attacks, but very specifically the explosions from those attacks. I just think adding that explanation into the speed section would make it unnecessarily bulky.
 
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You could argue for the shockwaves to honestly since they are still just energy from their clashes, and they get canceled out by Goku implying he can react to them, but their energy blast is probably easier to argue for since there are many feats of them being as fast as their energy blasts to back up that they would scale, so it leaves no room for the argument that their physical speed doesn't scale.
 
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LightReinh12345 said:
So we reach a conclusion, yet?!?
Its pretty clear we should scale them to their combat & attack speed rather than traveling speed
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Yeah, sextillions times xC BOG base Goku is backed by the evidence. Moro arc base Goku would be in the septillions xC. Even, if we downplay base Goku to 1 septillion xC. MUI Goku would be 2 nonillion xC damn!
 
There is a big difference between the expansion of one's Ki and an explosion caused by one's energy blast, and those two are not even remotely similar to shockwaves produced by the clashing of two gods. That'd be like scaling everyone character in fiction who clashed and created a shockwave to Supersonic.

Unless I'm missing something, there is nothing to suggest that Goku and Beerus would scale to the speed of any of this stuff.

Zamasu_Chan said:
Nah. It comes strictly from Beerus nullifying the blast.
Click to expand...
CR_Catinho said:
beerus reacted to and nullified the explosion after it happened , he outsped it , therefore he should scale to it . this grenade analogy is a terrible one.
Click to expand...
The light had already expanded across the universe before Beerus nullified it. If he nullified it after it happened, why would he scale to it?
If I'm hit dead-on by an explosion, and then nullify it seconds after it already detonated, would I scale to the explosion speed?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The light had already expanded across the universe before Beerus nullified it. If he nullified it after it happened, why would he scale to it?
If I'm hit dead-on by an explosion, and then nullify it seconds after it already detonated, would I scale to the explosion speed?
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Beerus wasn't his by any explosion. If that were the case, he wouldn't be fast enough to nullify it even though it, which would lead to the universe's destruction.
 
When Beerus' Catacyslmic Orb and Goku's Kiai-hameha clashed, it exploded into a light that expanded across the universe, all the way into the Realm of the Kais. In the following scene, in the next episode, the light dissipated, and Beerus revealed he nullified the energy, but at that point, the light already expanded, unless you're referring to another scene.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
There is a big difference between the expansion of one's Ki and an explosion caused by one's energy blast
Click to expand...
For the record, like I showed above, no there is not a big difference in speed between the ki waves and explosion's they create, as the characters consistently outpace said explosions as well very specifically. Shockwaves are debatable if they scale, but that's not what is being argued for.
 
The conclusion is Goku from BoG scales to the explosion from his energy ball he made during his clash with Beerus, and therefore is at least hundreds of quadrillions of times ftl, and it should have been added a long time ago XD

No, but in all seriousness that is the argument in a nutshell, and there has not been a reasonable counter to it yet tbf, and the staff has been silent for weeks.
 
I think we're just waiting for the arguments between you and the opposing parties to conclude. I'm also making tons of threads on verses like Avatar, Voltron, Android Saga DBZ, etc.

I don't personally have an opinion here, but characters very consistently scale to the speed of their explosions and blasts. BOG SSG Goku even escaped an attack similar to Frieza's light ball by outrunning it at the moment of the explosion. It's worth noting that Beerus' suppressed level was far more powerful than Goku at this juncture.

Basically, I think it's entirely reasonable. Tbh, even the current speeds on the profiles seem way too high, though.
 
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