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DBS speed problem

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I was actually leaning on the fence with the whole react to explosion thing, but ngl AKM made a good point in this comment.

'course I'll wait for Zamasu's response but until then I'm convinced.
 
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
My new issue now though is about Whis's max speed feet, and whether the distance was inflated or not.
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Just in case it is, and going off the idea that Beerus's planet is somewhere in the Living World, I guess we could use the maximum distance of 93 billion light years (observable universe size) as a highball.

Whis would cross this distance in 10 seconds, meaning 9.3 billion light years per second, meaning 8.79829142e26 meters per second, which would give him a speed of 293,479,411,680,196,480 c, or 293.5 quadrillion times the speed of light, compared to his current 498 quadrillion c.
 
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
Just in case it is, and going off the idea that Beerus's planet is somewhere in the Living World, I guess we could use the maximum distance of 93 billion light years (observable universe size) as a highball.

Whis would cross this distance in 10 seconds, meaning 9.3 billion light years per second, meaning 8.79829142e26 meters per second, which would give him a speed of 293,479,411,680,196,480 c, or 293.5 quadrillion times the speed of light, compared to his current 498 quadrillion c.
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Pretty sure that 293.5 quadrillion c is already included beside his 498 quadrillion c value, and no, the 93 billion light year end is a low-ball, since only the living universe is that large. the entirety of Universe 7 with the even-larger Afterlife would bump things up significantly.

EDIT: NVM you assumed Beerus's planet to be in the Living World. My bad.
 
AKM sama said:
The early fansub you linked is flawed. You can even tell because it already says that the explosion of power consumed the universe, according to which the universe should already be destroyed. The correct translation states "As their divine energy collides, onlookers stare up with bated breath, hoping the universe will not be ripped apart."

The second scan also has incorrect translation. The correct one states "Yes, we're lucky, at least for now. The destructive force of their colliding blasts is cataclysmic, but most of it didn't escape in the shockwave as I feared. It's made a super, super, super high density ball of energy..."
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Would’ve preferred if you’d show them instead of quoting them, but keep this point in mind I’m not done with it yet. Btw Ken Xyro translated most of the scans I posted.
AKM sama said:
I am not assuming he started nullifying the energy before the flash even happened. He could have started nullifying it after the flash happened. We don't know that.
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That’s almost what I’m saying. He at least reacted to the light then started nullifying.
AKM sama said:
His action of nullifying and pushing are both identical so we can't tell.
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We can tell. He may be in a same position but he’s pushing his body forward in the first instance. The second instance he’s just standing still with his hand out without pushing himself forward. And like I said, the ball would’ve disappeared if he was trying to nullify it.
AKM sama said:
All I'm saying is that the flash happened before the energy ball was going to explode, and the energy ball never exploded because Beerus nullified it before it did. That was the whole point.

Already said above why there was no explosion. Just because it emitted light doesn't mean there was an explosion.

So you are showing me a pic of the energy sphere emitting light. The same light that engulfed the entirety of U7. We already know that.
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You do realize that the sphere was already emitting light, it’s just not as bright.The bright light is a result of the explosion. Just like how the other bright light was a result of them clashing their energy. This is why I showed the pictures frame by frame, it shows the ball actually popping, it even made a big boom sound.
AKM sama said:
If it were the explosion that engulfed the universe, everyone would have died.
Click to expand...
No shit, that’s why Beerus nullified the blast. Just because Beerus nullified the energy from the explosion doesn’t mean light wouldn’t be generated from it, especially since it already exploded.
AKM sama said:
The fact that the energy ball became so unstable with power that it was just about to explode would cause the sudden light. High power energy emitting light is not uncommon in DB.
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It was already unstable. It literally could’ve detonated at any time. That was the entire point. As I said, we see the ball pop and hear it explode too. That’s why bright light was emitted.
AKM sama said:
Looks like your only argument here is "oh it emitted light so it must have exploded".
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I’m saying the light is the result from the explosion. You’re saying that it suddenly got unstable but didn’t explode

I’m saying there’s an explosion because we see the ball pop, we hear an explosion, and the light that’s already being emitted, suddenly gets far brighter. You’re saying it didn’t explode because it just didn’t.

I’m saying Beerus was able to react to the explosion, or at least the light, because he was able to tell when he had to nullify the energy. You’re saying he could’ve nullified at some arbitrary time during the duration of the light.

Why would it become unstable without exploding despite it being a highly dense ball that can be easily triggered?
Why would the light emit to brightly if nothing happened?
Why would it visibly expand and make a boom sound if it didn’t explode?

AKM sama said:
Not even acknowledging the fact that literally every character including Beerus was still as a snail without even making an inch of movement when the light engulfed the entire universe which alone debunks your entire point of Beerus scaling to that level of speed.
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Even after the clash they’re still in the same position because. They were too busy trying to win the clash and didn’t need to act on anything at the time. However in the second clash, if Beerus wasn’t as fast, he would’ve gotten blitzed by the explosion.

How would Beerus be able to nullify something that he can’t react to?
 
Anyone remember that comment on how far a bright nebula can go before it is no longer visible?
 
Beerus claims he used 10% of his strength against Vegeta, and that he used 100% against Goku; however, Whis informed Beerus that he lied in both cases and that "He wasn't even close to using his full power." There was no "1%" statement iirc, only that he barely used any of his power. But given the 3-A to Low 2-C gap, it's safe to say he used a lot less than 1%.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Beerus claims he used 10% of his strength against Vegeta, and that he used 100% against Goku; however, Whis informed Beerus that he lied in both cases and that "He wasn't even close to using his full power." There was no "1%" statement iirc, only that he barely used any of his power. But given the 3-A to Low 2-C gap, it's safe to say he used a lot less than 1%.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I remember there something about Beerus actually lying about the percentages just to make the two think that Beerus was exerting himself.
 
To be fair, I should reiterate, even if the energy blast didn't detonate, which I feel it looks like it did given the pulse of light, a strong boom sound and the fact they all felt it was the final stage of the clash and the kais reactions indicate they think it is the end, the cast of DB can consistently keep up with, and sometimes outrun their own ki blasts in any form, and the explosions of said ki blasts as I outlined above. So even the theoretical speed of the explosion should still apply, and we know that it was at least a immanent threat that would reach the kai world at around the speed of the light shown if detonated, given the reaction of the kais thinking it would be upon them when seeing the light. So they should still scale to that speed, just like they scale to the theoretical Universe busting attack, that never actually busts the Universe either.
 
Can somebody experienced please summarise what, if any, conclusions you have reached here?
 
At the moment we are debating SSjG Goku and Suppressed Beerus scaling to either the universal shockwaves or the universe destroying energy explosion.
 
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Zamasu_Chan said:
Though the feat itself doesn’t come from the shockwaves but the explosion.
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I'm was referring to two different feats.

For the shockwaves i was referring to the ones generated by Goku and Beerus's physical clashes.

For the explosion i was referring the massive energy ball that had be created by Goku and Beerus's beam clash.
 
Okay. It sounds like you do not need my help for the moment then. You can contact me later if that changes.
 
I mean, DB characters should scale to the speed of their ki attacks, including the explosions of them as outlined above, I don't see why we would suddenly change that stance for this. So whether the blast detonated or not, Beerus and Goku should be of similar speed to the theoretical, and or actual speed of the explosion.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
I mean, DB characters should scale to the speed of their ki attacks, including the explosions them as outlined above, I don't see why we would suddenly change that stance for this. So whether the blast detonated or not, Beerus and Goku should be of similar speed to the theoretical, and or actual speed of the explosion.
Click to expand...
If we assume a ten second time frame with a diameter of 98B lightyear which is a lowball we get 3 quintillion xC BOG SSG Goku, but the mid end would be 12,3 quintillion xC. It is more consistent with their power and I have than MUI Goku in the low octillions xC.
 
San-Kakarot said:
If we assume a ten second time frame with a diameter of 98B lightyear which is a lowball we get 3 quintillion xC BOG SSG Goku, but the mid end would be 12,3 quintillion xC. It is more consistent with their power and I have than MUI Goku in the low octillions xC.
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Bruh, that literally exceeds Whis's fastest speed. I was thinking more like in the hundreds of trillions as Goku's peak, he'd really only reach Whis's level with Ultra Instict IMHO.
 
KLOL506 said:
Bruh, that literally exceeds Whis's fastest speed. I was thinking more like in the hundreds of trillions as Goku's peak, he'd really only reach Whis's level with Ultra Instict IMHO.
Click to expand...
Well, Whis was going nowhere full speed and I think he was casually doing it. Also if peak Goku is in the trillions xC wouldn't that put Z SSJ3 Goku just to millions to hundreds of thousands xC?
 
iirc there is a low ball size we used for the DB Universe already on the wiki in other calcs that's above the OU, but not astronomically higher or anything like that . Likely we would just use that for distance for the time being, and as for time, 10 sec would be reasonable I suppose given what is depicted onscreen and the implied immediate nature of the destruction from the blast. So it would likely land cleanly in the upper quadrillions somewhere with that.
 
KLOL506 said:
Bruh, that literally exceeds Whis's fastest speed. I was thinking more like in the hundreds of trillions as Goku's peak, he'd really only reach Whis's level with Ultra Instict IMHO.
Click to expand...
Whis's traveling speed shouldn't have be to higher than Goku's combat speed
Should it?
Especially when we know their combat throughout the series has always been far higher than traveling speed
 
I'll put it to you this way.

1. Do you agree that Dragon Ball characters can consistently move at the same or faster speeds than their ki blasts, including explosions, and thus logically scale to the speed of their ki attacks regardless of if its a beam, ball or explosion?

2. Do you agree that the explosion from their energy blast in BoG is heavily implied to be able to cover all U7 in a brief timeframe if detonated, likely at a similar speed to the light that the Kais and Whis reacted to, thinking it was the end of the Universe?

If you can say yes to both of these then I don't see how you could argue they don't scale to the speed of the explosion in BoG, theoretical or actual, regardless of if you think it detonated or not.

*I gave several examples of several types of ki attacks being outpaced from similar speed individuals, including an explosion being outrun at point blank, but I'm sure I could dig up many more examples if people were still not convinced.

*Also Whis speed is conservative tbf since we assume 10 seconds, it could have been less time. This is also combat instead of travel speed, and this still fits in that range of speed to. So it really isn't a direct contradiction.
 
San-Kakarot said:
Well, Whis was going nowhere full speed and I think he was casually doing it. Also if peak Goku is in the trillions xC wouldn't that put Z SSJ3 Goku just to millions to hundreds of thousands xC?
Click to expand...
No one in DBZ even remotely scales to the BoG feats, given that BoG SSG Goku >>>>>>>>>>> Buu Saga Super Vegito
 
Sooo, anybody have anything further to say? I feel the argument for DB characters scaling to the speed of there ki attacks is pretty cut and dry still personally.

Edit: Likely say something along the lines of "MFTL+ (Should be comparable to the speed of the explosion from the ki ball which Goku and Beerus created, which the kais and Whis thought would have covered all of Universe 7 in mere moments)"

You could link the scenes where the kais thought it was going to destroy them when the light reached them, and Whis and the kais saying it was the end of the clash and the Universe would be destroyed at that time had Beerus not nullified the energy (whether it was detonated or not).
 
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