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- #121
I understand if you have problems with the the first point. However, my second point still stands. Beerus nullified the explosion after it detonated, so it scales to his combat and reaction speed.
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DBS speed problem
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
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Uh, no, there was no actual detonation, there was only a flash of light.
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- #123
Yes there was. If it didn’t detonate then the dense energy ball would still be there and Beerus wouldn’t have to nullify it.
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Damn, they were?
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- #126
Please stop doing that. This is literally dodging my argument. Actually say what’s wrong with it instead of bringing up old threads.
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Isnt that the movie?
- 8,849
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- #128
No
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How could they be not? It's DB.
I hate when people try to bring up the same points over and over again to force others to do the same dance to the same song all over again without actually putting themselves through the trouble of researching first. All in hopes of it getting a pass because most people present during that time have lost interest exactly because of the same old dance. This is just a battle of attrition at this point.
Anyway, there was a blinding flash of light that engulfed the universe before the explosion was gonna happen. The actual explosion never happened. Beerus did not react to the light that engulfed the universe, which can be seen in that same clip. That blinding flash of light was present for quite a lot of time before disappearing, which was plenty of time for Beerus to nullify the energy. The whole point of it was to not let that explosion happen.
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What AKM said, and also the fact Beerus had his arm out towards the ki the entire time.
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I will say this is kind of a non point.
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It kind of is if someone doesn't have anything new.
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I will say it's not because the thing was already rejected and we have a rule not to upgrade/downgrade the verse without bringing anything new to the table.
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- #134
What says that the explosion happened after the light covered the universe?
Just because you nullify an explosion doesn’t mean it’s light can’t be seen.
Again that makes so sense. Why would there just be light but not an explosion? And why would the explosion be so much slower than the light from the explosion itself? That’s headcanon. Also you do realize if Beerus started using his nullification as the light
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- #135
Fam. By this logic the dense energy ball would’ve been nullified as soon as it was made.
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Can you give me the episode this came from then?
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- #137
Ok. Give me a second.
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I've went back and forth with accepting the Goku and Beerus lighting up the macrocosm for a while, but at the moment, I'd say I agree with its use. I've only skimmed the thread, but I think I saw something about how it was just the shockwaves, which we can't scale or something, but we see a ki blast doing this too (my apologies for the low quality image, it's the best I could find). I made a calc for this a while back and fixed a few things today, by the way.
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Yeah, I saw that too. It looks good to me.
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The explosion...never happened lol. Can you not see the video? Fine, show me the "explosion". I don't see anything exploding in the feat. All I see is a big flash of light, which is not the explosion.
...what? Beerus nullified the "energy". Not the "explosion". He said so himself. You'd know if you actually looked ahead in the episode and did proper research.
The first and second dense energy balls want to know your location. Literally in the same set of episodes you can see a blinding flash of light created at least two more times without any explosion happening. But of course, you wouldn't know because you didn't do proper research or bothered to read previous threads. There was a blinding flash of light that engulfed the universe when the same orb was formed. No explosion. There was another identical flash of light when the second orb was formed too, without any explosion. The orbs emitting huge amount of light without any explosion isn't even new.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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So if that speed feat isn't accepted, then what other feats can be used for Beerus and BoG Goku?
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The nebula one.
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- #145
The flash of light is obviously the result from the explosion. Why would it be there in the first place?
Uhh yeah. He nullified the energy from the ball after it detonated.
I already posted, here and in my blog, both scenes of flashing light, and your saying I’m not paying attention? The first light was a result of their clashing energy. Once that detonated, Goku and Beerus condensed the energy into a ball. That’s why Kibito Shin thought the universe was over the first time around. He saw the ex It was even stated by the narrator to be “an explosion of power.”
The second one was the result of the dense energy ball exploding. You even see the ball pop from the result of the dense energy. Why would Beerus nullify the energy ball after the flash of light and not before? You saying it didn’t detonate is headcanon.
It’s so simple it’s not even funny. Beerus and Goku clash resulting in an explosion but they contain their energy into a ball so they wouldn’t destroy the universe. Then, Beerus nullifies the energy released from the ball’s detonation before it could destroy the universe.
You are over complicating things and making stuff up.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Was the blog for the feat even made yet?
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Again, I don't see any explosion. Just a flash of light. It happened because the energy was becoming unstable and hard to control. Energy releasing light is not new.
He says he nullified the energy and not letting the explosion happen was exactly why he did it. If the explosion actually happened, it would have engulfed the universe at the same speed as the light. The fact that Beerus was still nullifying the energy even after the light engulfed the entire universe means that he never let the "explosion" happen in the first place by nullifying whatever energy was causing the light.
It happened because their attacks collided and formed the dense energy sphere on their own. Goku and Beerus did not actively condense that energy into a sphere, stop making stuff up. And no explosion took place. Just a flash of light. Which means the flash of light can happen even without an explosion just from the energy itself. And if you are saying Goku and Beerus actively condensed the energy into a ball, then also it means that a flash of light can take place without letting an actual explosion happen. Which again proves my point no matter what.
It's so simple it's not even funny. Beerus nullified the energy before the explosion actually took place. Energy ball emitting light was not the explosion. Again, show the explosion happening and Beerus nullifying an actual explosion instead of imagining it in your head.
Until you can do that, all we know is that a flash of light happened because the energy became too powerful, it engulfed the universe, nobody scales to it, explosion never happened, because Beerus nullified the energy and saved everything from getting exploded. Anything else without proof is just your imagination, headcanon and assumption. I have said my point and I won't repeat the same thing unless you show the evidence that I asked for. It's a waste of time.
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The fact a ki blast without exploding already has lights, even aura itself.
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I agree with using the Universe destroying explosion speed personally. I agreed with it back in 2016 and I agree with it now. You could argue no to shockwaves since they are a bit wonky I guess, but DB characters scale to their ki blasts speed and can match the speed of them and even their explosions. Beerus is clearly shown and said to nullify the energy after it emits a light and large boom, clearly showing and implying detonation imo. This is indicated further by the kais thinking it was detonation, based on their reaction to immanent death as it approached. But even if it weren't detonated, they would logically be able to react to the theoretical explosion regardless based on the fact they can move as fast or faster than there ki attacks, and explosions consistently.
Some examples of various ki blasts that they outpace are Goku dodging and appearing behind Frieza from his eye beams (Frieza's attacks are noted to be especially quick), Goku using his speed to completely avoid the explosion from Frieza's paralysis ki ball at point blank range (this is a specific example of outrunning a explosion from a ki blast), and Goku outrunning Piccolos homing ki blast.
Having the light linger does not change the fact that if Beerus did not nullify the explosion after it occurred, which is implied, it would spread across U7 seemingly in an instant given even the Kais outside the living Universe thought they were toast at that moment as the light reached them. And even if it didn't detonate, they should logically still scale to the theoretical speed of there ki attacks since they have outpaced them at point blank range in the past many times in many forms including explosions.
Some examples of various ki blasts that they outpace are Goku dodging and appearing behind Frieza from his eye beams (Frieza's attacks are noted to be especially quick), Goku using his speed to completely avoid the explosion from Frieza's paralysis ki ball at point blank range (this is a specific example of outrunning a explosion from a ki blast), and Goku outrunning Piccolos homing ki blast.
Having the light linger does not change the fact that if Beerus did not nullify the explosion after it occurred, which is implied, it would spread across U7 seemingly in an instant given even the Kais outside the living Universe thought they were toast at that moment as the light reached them. And even if it didn't detonate, they should logically still scale to the theoretical speed of there ki attacks since they have outpaced them at point blank range in the past many times in many forms including explosions.
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I agree with it as well
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- #151
It’s stated to be an explosion, twice. And Kibito Shin thought the universe was done for when he saw the explosion.
Why are you assuming he started nullifying the energy before the flash of light? If he did that then the ball would’ve been gone as soon as it spawned. He was even pushing the ball instead of nullifying it. It’s clear he only thought of nullifying it after the ball detonated.
Already said above why this was an explosion. Just because it’s covered by or emits light, doesn’t mean there was no explosion.
Are you blind bro? Even if it didn’t detonate, wtf would cause a sudden light to emit?
Many flaws in your argument. You’re ignoring the fact that that the initial clash that caused light was called an explosion. You’re assuming Beerus started nulling the energy before it even detonated. And you’re saying the ball is emitting light but not exploding? With the first flash of light, Beerus and Goku had to clash their energy. According to your logic, the light happens to emit just because.
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Good job!
Gilad_Hyperstar
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So 12-120 billion times c BoG SSG Goku then?
Nice
Nice
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Maybe an "at least" because it's casual? Not sure.
There's also the ongoing discussion about lighting up the macrocosm and whether or not they scale.
There's also the ongoing discussion about lighting up the macrocosm and whether or not they scale.
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We agreed on a 2 light year radius, not 20.
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So this calculation should be used instead?
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Yes, that was the one we went with after researching nebulae size.
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The early fansub you linked is flawed. You can even tell because it already says that the explosion of power consumed the universe, according to which the universe should already be destroyed. The correct translation states "As their divine energy collides, onlookers stare up with bated breath, hoping the universe will not be ripped apart."
The second scan also has incorrect translation. The correct one states "Yes, we're lucky, at least for now. The destructive force of their colliding blasts is cataclysmic, but most of it didn't escape in the shockwave as I feared. It's made a super, super, super high density ball of energy..."
I am not assuming he started nullifying the energy before the flash even happened. He could have started nullifying it after the flash happened. We don't know that. His action of nullifying and pushing are both identical so we can't tell. All I'm saying is that the flash happened before the energy ball was going to explode, and the energy ball never exploded because Beerus nullified it before it did. That was the whole point.
Already said above why there was no explosion. Just because it emitted light doesn't mean there was an explosion.
So you are showing me a pic of the energy sphere emitting light. The same light that engulfed the entirety of U7. We already know that. If it were the explosion that engulfed the universe, everyone would have died. The fact that the energy ball became so unstable with power that it was just about to explode would cause the sudden light. High power energy emitting light is not uncommon in DB.
Looks like your only argument here is "oh it emitted light so it must have exploded". Not even acknowledging the fact that literally every character including Beerus was shown to be still as a statue without even making an inch of movement as the light was shown to engulf the entire universe which alone debunks your entire point of Beerus scaling to that level of speed.
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Just wondering, do you have the correct translation for the "I've never used anywhere near 10% of my power in a long time" claim that Beerus made while fighting Vegeta.
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