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That's just more evidence, noiceThat weird comment Goku made about time in the afterlife is also in the anime, if that matters any.
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That's just more evidence, noiceThat weird comment Goku made about time in the afterlife is also in the anime, if that matters any.
That possibly mean time in Afterlife or Hell whatever it is have different properties compare to time of Living Realm.That weird comment Goku made about time in the afterlife is also in the anime, if that matters any.
And plus being stated to be space times, two times.That possibly mean time in Afterlife or Hell whatever it is have different properties compare to time of Living Realm.
Combine with Shin called the Living Realm is temporal world mean that time of Living Universe did actually different from time of Afterlife, Supreme Kai Realm, etc....
Every dimension is space-time.And plus being stated to be space times, two times.
Also didn't the daizenshu state that the living universe is based on ours, and it's similar to scifi movies like star wars, would be a good evidence for it being it's own space time?
Well the living universe is based on ours, thus it's reasonable to assume it's as big as ours. But is this statement helpfull enough or no?Every dimension is space-time.
Only issue is size and ""seperateness"" which we already qualify for.
The Sugoroku Space is just... a space.Every dimension is space-time.
But it isn't a timeless space is it??The Sugoroku Space is just... a space.
Both Living World and Afterlife should be at the very least universal in size, since as you say the Living World its based to our universe while the Afterlife it is show to be just as big as the Living World.Well the living universe is based on ours, thus it's reasonable to assume it's as big as ours. But is this statement helpfull enough or no?
Tell that to Alien X which got downgraded because it couldn't qualify its void before creation to be timeless.We kind of need explicit confirmation that it is a timespace to be accepted as much on the Wiki. Besides, it exists outside of both the Living Universe and the Cosmos and seems to operate under its own whacky laws and physics.
It is technically a space time , since ya know...there is space, time, gravity etc...We kind of need explicit confirmation that it is a timespace to be accepted as much on the Wiki. Besides, it exists outside of both the Living Universe and the Cosmos and seems to operate under its own whacky laws and physics.
The wiki already accepts heaven to be universal in size, that's why toi goku has his quadrillion x speed of light RatingEach Living World and Afterlife should be at the very least universal in size, since as you say the Living World its based to our universe while the Afterlife it is show to be just as big as the Living World.
And if you also count that Heaven was stated to be as big as an universe, then the actual size of the Macrocosmo would be much larger, not to mention the Kaioshin Realm it suppost to be only 1/10 of the Macrocosmo via Databook.
AKM makes sense to me above.I will summarize the relevant argument for people who may not read the entire thread.
The proposal:
This statement exists in DBZ anime. As the episode comes to a finish, the narrator ends it off by saying "Separated by time and space, the harsh trials that the sleeping father and son must face continue on and on."
Goku is in the afterlife and Gohan is on Earth, and they are said to be separated by time and space. Taken literally, this would imply both realms have their own space-time continuums, making a universe in DBZ anime a 2-C structure.
My disagreement:
We treat the anime as being separate from the manga because it adds a fair few things on its own. However it is still an adaptation of the original manga. And the exact same scene exists in the manga with a similar dialogue by the narrator.
The original chapter in the manga ends at the same scene where the episode in the anime ends. The narration states this in the very next page of the manga. "On Heaven and Earth, Goku and Gohan's training begins!!! Two generations, two kinds of training"
The above context is important to know where the statement actually came from. Because the chapter ends exactly where the episode ends, and the next chapter starts with the similar narration that is used to close off the episode. It's obvious both are trying to go for the same thing. This context is supporting evidence for my main points:
1. They are poetic dialogues meant to smoothen a transition between two chapters/episodes. The anime just adapted it up from the manga and changed it a little bit.
2. One could claim that the anime has it because they wanted to emphasize that both realms are separate space-time continuums. However, the statement is not part of any explanation regarding the structure of the universe. It is not part of any exposition dump regarding what the realms are or how they work. It is part of the same poetic sentence that talks about Goku and Gohan needing to go through harsh training. Which leads me to believe that is was never meant to be taken as a fact-based statement, but it is a throwaway statement which was never repeated or confirmed later on.
3. The original statement has the words "two generations" referring to Goku and Gohan. The adapted statement has the words "separated by time" referring to the same people. It is entirely possible that this "separated by time" part is not referring to space-time continuum shenanigans, but the time difference (age difference or generation gap) between the father and son. The "separated by space" part would just be an adaptation of 'On heaven and Earth" part, referring to the two realms.
Whatever may be the case, the statement in itself does not seem 100% reliable in the context of the realms having separate space-time continuums, and such a huge change should not be based on a questionable statement like this alone. At best this can act like a supporting evidence for some other concrete information that should be acting as the primary evidence.
@Promestein what do you think?
I still failed to see how he make sense, all he did was using manga page to claim that anime narrative is flowery and poetic while they have entirely different content in their narrativeAKM makes sense to me above.
Pretty sure Heaven was never used to determinate Goku's speed, only that the Afterlife was universal in size.The wiki already accepts heaven to be universal in size, that's why toi goku has his quadrillion x speed of light Rating
How does he make sense when he is using a non canon source to prove or support his points? Or using flowery or hyper statement even after knowledgeable people about dbz and some staff agreed that using an argument like that isn't a proper rebuttalAKM makes sense to me above.
Also, thank you for helping out ByAsura.
It was, goku and piccon crossed heaven, which gave them their speed, but I could be terribly terribly wrongPretty sure Heaven was never used to determinate Goku's speed, only that the Afterlife was universal in size.
I nearly poked my eyes out staring at this edge.I lost my faith in humanity at this point
Way to conveniently ignore the main argument.using the manga
Which cosmology stuff to be exact? The Heaven stuff or the 2-C stuff? If it is the latter then can I ask for which reason? There were 3 reasons listed in the OP, 2 of which are inadmissible and the remaining one would act as a supporting evidence in the best scenario, not a primary one.I agree with the cosmology stuff.
Have addressed many of rebuttals made to the comment??revision.127083/page-4#post-4302019 Way to conveniently ignore the main argument.
No, they only cross the distance between Hell and Grand Kai Planet, also it was Goku and Pikkon.It was, goku and piccon crossed heaven, which gave them their speed, but I could be terribly terribly wrong
you guy it is irrelevant to this thread please stay on trackNo, they only cross the distance between Hell and Grand Kai Planet, also it was Goku and Pikkon.
I mean, I don't blame you. The thread has progressed too much for you to be able to keep track at this point. So only going off of the OP won't be enough to get a proper understanding. For update, the Popo statement and the temporal statement were already debunked. We are not discussing those anymore. Heaven is also irrelevant because it doesn't amount to any real change as far as cosmology is concerned. The currently accepted size of the DB universe already is big enough to have a universe-sized heaven in it. The GT statement is from preview which is inadmissible and the statement that is in the actual episode is nothing like that. The Buuhan stuff is against the rules.Edit: Actually, rereading them, I suppose you guys do have a point to some extent, like differences in the meaning of temporal. But there's still some stuff that's pretty clear-cut, like the repeated statements that the flower field of heaven is universal in size and the so-called poetic language.
That's for you too.The OP looks fine
how? if anything it proves that they were going for heaven being timeless, which is blatantly false.That's just more evidence, noice
I skimmed most of it. I'm going neutral tbh.I mean, I don't blame you. The thread has progressed too much for you to be able to keep track at this point.
I've actually been looking through a lot of this stuff for a few years, especially when people tried to use the english dub of the vice shout.So only going off of the OP won't be enough to get a proper understanding.
Ok (I always agreed with you on those, though).For update, the Popo statement and the temporal statement were already debunked. We are not discussing those anymore.
Ok.Heaven is also irrelevant because it doesn't amount to any real change as far as cosmology is concerned. The currently accepted size of the DB universe already is big enough to have a universe-sized heaven in it.
Already talked about this above.The GT statement is from preview which is inadmissible and the statement that is in the actual episode is nothing like that.
Wait, so is Sugoroku Space located between space-times or between time and space? The former would support the idea that the Living Universe and the Cosmos are their own space-times, whereas the latter just makes the space out to be some free-floating, interdimensional wedge.Ok, I checked. The translation's accurate, but (like AKM said) it doesn't actually exist in any of the episodes. It's just the outro.
Yes?On another note, are the World of the Kais and Heaven separated in the anime?
Sorry if I come back here, but what do you think about the DBZ statement about Gohan and Goku?I don't know. Given what's stated in the episode, despite it not really lining up with that outro, I'd more say context leans towards it being in-between two separate time spaces.
But, again, that's just going by what the outro says. In truth, episode 30 & 31 more present it as an interstitial space.