DB Toei revision

[Zamasu_Chan]

This thread is strictly for DBZ and DBGT. No DB manga, no DBS manga, and no DBS anime. Leave them out of this.

Different cosmologies​

I think it's time we stop pretending that U7 in the anime and manga are the same. There are plenty of statements in the anime's favor that aren’t in the manga.

First, we have the Pendulum Room statement.

Here Popo states that all of the past present and future are created in this room. The other realms, such as the afterlife, weren’t established yet and the other universes don’t seem to exist, so this statement does seem to imply the past present and future of the living universe.

Second, we have we have this statement from the saiyan saga.

It says "Separated by time and space, the harsh trials that the sleeping father and son must face continue on and on." Goku is in the afterlife and Gohan is on earth. The Narrator says they’re both separated by time and space. That's a super blatant statement that heavily implies that the universe and afterlife are two different spacetime continuums.

Third, we have another statement from Supreme Kai, Shin.

Here Shin straight up calls the living universe "the temporal world", which is another straight forward statement.

Fourth, we have statements of heaven being as large as the living universe.

This was rejected because "Heaven revolves around a sun" or "a planet can't be universe sized", but mainly because of these two photos. Pixel scaling these specific images gives heaven a volume of 264405000000m^3 which is the size of a mountain. This makes no sense because all mortals in the universe are supposed to fit on heaven. We also know in DB that not everything is drawn to scale all the time.

Fifth, we have a GT statement.

I got a friend to translate it for me and it says:
Goku: あれ？ あの世にしては変なとこに来ちまったぞ｡
Huh? I've come to a strange place in Otherworld.
Pan: そこは 時空のはざまで 外からじゃ誰にも助けられないんですって！
That place is between space-times, no one can help you from the outside.
Another clear as day statement, as the space Goku is in is between the universe and otherworld.

Those are several spacetime statements so I think that’s more that enough evidence that U7 in DBZ, GT, Xenoverse and Heroes, is 2-C.

The scaling​

Otherworld​

Due to the heaven statement, the 3-Cs would likely get upgraded with an updated calc.

Buu​

This feat gets such a bad wrap. Outside Space is the ability Buuhan uses when trying to destroy the universe. This has been dismissed as just hax but wouldn’t something like that need proof? As shown here, Buuhan is simply shooting out ki. It's stated here that Super Buu did it because of his raw power, not hax. The first statement even says that his energy would cover the universe itself and it’s shown destroying the boundaries of the universe. So I think it should be at least "possibly Low 2-C".

GT​

Omega Shenron is 3-A for his universal statements. With the evidence provided, Omega and SSJ4 Gogeta would be 2-C.

Conclusion​

If this gets accepted:

Toeiverse U7 would be 2-C
Those stronger than Buuhan, like Kid Buu, would be Low 2-C
Omega, Gogeta, and SSJ4 Goku with Dragon Fist would be 2-C

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Interesting.

 

[Orange]

I completely agree with this.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Oh boy here we go

 

[Rikimarox2]

Low 2-C Goku, and 2-C Gogeta

****, I didn't expect them to be stronger than DBS.

Anyways, this seems legit, I agree.

 

[thetechmaster36]

****, I didn't expect them to be stronger than DBS.

The power of having dumb cosmologies, folks.

Anyways, I agree with this, evidence seems pretty solid.

 

[sanicspood]

I agree with this

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Looks fine

 

[Braking]

i guess i can agree to this.

 

[Braking]

Nulls worst nightmare

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I agree with the macrocosm being 2-C which the 3-A characters now scale to. Very cool.
I do not agree with Buuhan being Low 2-C, though.

As shown here, Buuhan is simply shooting out ki.

every time i have to talk about the outside space, my soul crumbles a little more

Here's this video I found that sums up everything perfectly.

A brief response to Saiyan Scholar

An unprompted video because Twitter.

www.youtube.com

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Next, we just have to prove the Super anime and the Z anime are related.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Kid Buu > Buuhan?
Explain pls!

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I agree with the macrocosm being 2-C which the 3-A characters now scale to. Very cool.
I do not agree with Buuhan being Low 2-C, though.

every time i have to talk about the outside space, my soul crumbles a little more

Here's this video I found that sums up everything perfectly.

A brief response to Saiyan Scholar

An unprompted video because Twitter.

www.youtube.com

Is that your channel flower man? Is that you? I see saiyan scholar replied to the video with bullshit.

Kid Buu > Buuhan?
Explain pls!

Kid buu is superior to buuhan in the anime, it's stupid but it's true.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Kid buu is superior to buuhan in the anime, it's stupid but it's true.

That's going to create some circular scaling issues. E.g Fat Buu < Grey Buy < Super Buu < Mystic Gohan <<< Buuhan <<< SSj Vegito = SSj Super Gogeta < SSj3 Goku/Fat Buu < Kid Buu (And that's not factoring in Janemba).

Plus iirc there was a GT guidebook that said SSj4 Goku = SSj Vegtio.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

That's going to create some circular scaling issues. E.g Fat Buu < Grey Buy < Super Buu < Mystic Gohan <<< Buuhan <<< SSj Vegito = SSj Super Gogeta < SSj3 Goku/Fat Buu < Kid Buu (And that's not factoring in Janemba).

Plus iirc there was a GT guidebook that said SSj4 Goku = SSj Vegtio.

SSJ2 and SSJ3 Goku post vegito is really strong he got boosted enough to fight with kid buu one on one.
That guide book statement is stupid and is contradicted by the entire show.

 

[DragonLord]

In the Anime Goku was beating a ghost of Ultimate Gohan inside Buu’s stomach (of which the daizenshu says are equal in power to the original) so it’s made very explicit Goku and Kid Buu > Gohan > Super Buu

 

[Baken384]

LOW 2C SSJ4 YEEAAHYH

 

[DragonLord]

Plus iirc there was a GT guidebook that said SSj4 Goku = SSj Vegtio.

This isn’t true. The book this is from was listing all of Goku’s forms and how strong they are. Aka Vegito the form Goku can go in gives a boost comparable to SSJ4. It uses a image of Z Vegito because Vegito didn’t appear in GT

 

[sanicspood]

Can someone get some mods in here

 

[Braking]

the mods gonna just leave a comment then lock the thread so no one will try to counter their arguement.

 

[Braking]

why did this thread went quiet after i said that?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Kid Buu > Buuhan?
Explain pls!

Oh damn I forgot to cross that out. But Kid Buu is definitely stronger in the anime.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

every time i have to talk about the outside space, my soul crumbles a little more

Here's this video I found that sums up everything perfectly.

A brief response to Saiyan Scholar

An unprompted video because Twitter.

www.youtube.com

If outside space covers the living world, destroying the spacetime, then yeah the material universe would be crushed.

 

[Spinoirr]

Yeah I agree with this

Also weren't we supposed to separate the movies from toei Goku unless they are shown to be cannon to it's events, like in GT when all the villans came out of hell some movie villans were there

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If outside space covers the living world

The Outside Space itself is just the anime's version of the Vice Shout. All Buuhan is doing is opening up holes to different dimensions, and those dimensions would crush the Living Universe, not Buuhan. Buuhan is not destroying anything. He is enabling these other realities to, though.

 

[StekFence]

Never thought I’d see the day when gt ap stomps super

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The Outside Space itself is just the anime's version of the Vice Shout. All Buuhan is doing is opening up holes to different dimensions, and those dimensions would crush the Living Universe, not Buuhan. Buuhan is not destroying anything. He is enabling these other realities to, though.

He’s opening those holes by tearing them apart which is still AP.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Okay.
What tier then?
He's opening itty bitty portals in the clouds.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Okay.
What tier then?
He's opening itty bitty portals in the clouds.

It’s stated that it’ll cover the universe. Low 2-C.

 

[Braking]

It’s stated that it’ll cover the universe. Low 2-C.

and its space time?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

and its space time?

Yes. He’s stated to destroy the walls between dimensions.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Okay, I'm lost now.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Okay, I'm lost now.

The outside space energy was destroying the walls between dimensions. As stated by the narrator, the living universe and other realms are are separated by space and time. Buuhan's outside space was going to cover the universe, and as shown in the anime, it was destroying it. With outside space destroying spacetime, and with it being capable of covering the living world, that easily means the spacetime of the living world will be destroyed. With all of space and time gone, of course the dimensions will fall apart. It's a domino affect yes, but that domino affect was gonna destroy everything as a result of the mortal universe being destroyed.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The Outside Space is the anime version of the Vice Shout; Buu ripped through a hole through the boundary separating the Room of Spirit and Time and Earth, allowing him to escape after Piccolo destroyed the door, which is the natural entrance and exit.

Buuhan was not threatening to destroy anything by himself with this technique. Rather, his plan was to:

1. Warp and twist space and rip through the wall between dimensions once more
2. Open up the doors for random alternate dimensions to just enter and mingle with his own reality
3. Stand by while these alternate dimensions crushed the Living Universe

Nothing in the original anime ever mentioned Buuhan creating some kind of space like the Daizenshuu excerpt might lead you to believe, nor does it mention his power engulfing the universe or anything like that. He just opened up a bunch of portals.

All he is doing is opening up portals.

The outside space energy

not a thing

as shown in the anime, it was destroying it

where???

It's a domino affect yes

All you needed to say.

 

[Tarang123]

I'm sad...I used to talk about how GT gets murderstomped by Super (mainly the two gokus), and now GT is shitstomping...sigh

All jokes aside, I agree with this CRT on the most part. I'm a little neutral on some points, but overall the premise of Tier 2 seems pretty solid. The first scan is definitely something that should be enough to confirm tier 2 tbh.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I obviously agree since I did discuss this with Zamasu Chan a while back. But, there is something that makes me happy inside:
2-C Ultimate Tenkaichi Hero though ?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Nothing in the original anime ever mentioned Buuhan creating some kind of space like the Daizenshuu excerpt might lead you to believe, nor does it mention his power engulfing the universe or anything like that. He just opened up a bunch of portals.

Hmm? In the scan you posted, it's stated he's warping space that’s surrounding him. In the Daizenshuu, it stated that he's causing distortions across space and that warped space would cover the universe and wipe out the universe.

The Daizenshuu in no way contradicts the anime. The Daizenshuu stated what happened in the show, in the first sentence, and what was going to happen, in the last sentence. Obviously we didn’t see the events described last sentence of the statement because Vegito stopped Buu before it happened.

It even used past tense and future tense as evident by "Buu went into a frenzy" and "This space would cover the living world"

 

[Baken384]

DBStards such as myself who thinks Base Super Goku solos the verse after GT gets upgraded to Low 2-C and 2-C

i agree with this.

 

[Braking]

so buu saga gonna be upgraded to low 2-c to 2-C?

LMAO