Date A Live Revision: Low 2-C Edition

[Shadowbeast]

More about Neighboring world and Real World being universal and infinite (pretty much).

Real World:


Neighboring world:

The kanji that you translated to cosmos in your first scan is "宙" which doesn't exactly translate to cosmos but rather space/outer space.

This kanji "宙" means "space", "outer space", "sky"

This page is regarding "宙" which means "space", "outer space", "sky". It shows the radical, the order of stroke, how to read and examples of how it can be used.

jitenon.com

But anyway, i'm not disagreeing with you on this, since this wouldn't change the context of the scene which would still translate that there's an infinite 3-D area in the universe which is indeed High 3-A. The main universe can stay at Low 2-C as there's an infinite space inside the universe and like explained above by Catpija, there's also an space-time continuum in our main reality.

I'm still neutral on the Neighboring World being an High 3-A reality but i'm leading to agree due to the evidence presented. However that "infinite hell" stuff seems to be flowery language.

 

[Omazio2019]

The kanji that you translated to cosmos in your first scan is "宙" which doesn't exactly translate to cosmos but rather space/outer space.

This kanji "宙" means "space", "outer space", "sky"

This page is regarding "宙" which means "space", "outer space", "sky". It shows the radical, the order of stroke, how to read and examples of how it can be used.

jitenon.com

But anyway, i'm not disagreeing with you on this, since this wouldn't change the context of the scene which would still say that there's an infinite 3-D area in the universe which is indeed High 3-A. The main universe can stay at Low 2-C as there's an infinite space inside the universe and like explained above by Catpija, there's also an space-time continuum in our main reality.

I'm still neutral on the Neighboring World being an High 3-A reality but i'm leading to agree due to the evidence presented. However that "infinite hell" stuff seems to be flowery language.

Uhh, no? My opinion is only when they merging Neighboring World with Real World (Overwritten the real world by the Neighboring World) that they'll get Low 2-C since Neighboring World isn't exist "inside" the main universe but a "parallel existence", otherwise they can be 3-A to High 3-A with creating Neighboring World via collecting Reiryoku

The connection between the real world and the Neighboring World was severed. Observation from the reality would recognize it as approximately a complete disappearance. However, the Neighboring World was alive. Those who lived in the Neighboring World were also alive.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Uhh, no? My opinion is only when they merging Neighboring World with Real World (Overwritten the real world by the Neighboring World) that they'll get Low 2-C since Neighboring World isn't exist "inside" the main universe but a "parallel existence", otherwise they can be 3-A to High 3-A with creating Neighboring World via collecting Reiryoku

The connection between the real world and the Neighboring World was severed. Observation from the reality would recognize it as approximately a complete disappearance. However, the Neighboring World was alive. Those who lived in the Neighboring World were also alive.

Ik, i was just adressing your translation stuff from that japanese scan, didn't even disagreed bro. Yea, the neighboring world is not inside the universe and is rather an alternate dimension/universe.
In addition to the statements that we have, the neighboring world has sizes not only on the 4-A range, but on High 3-A levels. In my opinion i think your proposal is very valid. Since to completely replace a Universe level+ structure you would have to need a Low 2-C size, and we know that the neighboring world had overwrite the main universe.


Also, i don't know if this will help anything but the space inside the neighboring world works differently to the traditional space of the universe, logic and natural laws works differently there too, as stated in the scan above.

 

[Wikisource]

Disagree on CM2, neutral on L2C (I need a clearer scan)

I was told that if an abstract thing sustains the entire reality, it could qualify as type 2 concept, is it wrong?

True but not enough.

 

[Mizuki67]

i see low 2c fine with the arguments made but ehh i think i will be neutral with cm type 2 until staff gives their opinion on it
(sorry for the edit)

 

[Omazio2019]

Disagree on CM2, neutral on L2C (I need a clearer scan)

Here is the scan of OP:

MUKURO TRUE ROUTE

Spoiler

A year and a half.

The time that Mukuro has spent since returning to the past.

Not only could the【Twelfth Bullet <Yud Bet>】use up the lifeforce of the Spirit if not careful, it will also exponentially consume Reiryoku depending on the time and date of the destination.

There was no way to collect the large amount of Reiryoku needed to fill more than a year and a half. Kurumi, who understood the power of <Zafkiel> more than anyone else, concluded that it was『impossible』.

「If it wasn’t for something like sacrificing the world itself… then it would be impossible」

Kurumi closed her eyes and whispered that to Mukuro, who looked on while completely dumbstruck.

「…In the end, you were sent back to the past, and the person who sent you probably paid a dreadful price」

「W-What do you mean…?」

「This is just speculation, but didn’t that person use the world’s spiritual veins to gather Reiryoku? By mixing all kind of Reiryoku together, your『time limit』was removed」

She recalled it back. The vision of the future with only they two.

If Shido had been gathering Reiryoku, then it was in a world where no one else survived besides the two of them.

Despite that his figure equivalent to a corpse——Despite that both his mind and body were broken——He still had been acting for the sake of Mukuro even when reduced to such a state.

「Thanks to that, Mukuro-san has been able to stay in this past world until today. However, in order to save Origami-san, you must have cut down on a great deal of Reiryoku」

「!」

「That’s the same as using the【Twelfth Bullet <Yud Bet>】’s power. The Reiryoku that was enough to stay in the past is running out… and now, the signs of its end have begun to emerge」

Kurumi’s piercing gaze stared intently at Mukuro’s cracked arm.

Indeed, Mukuro only started to hear those strange sounds after saving Origami.

Did those tiny cracks, which Mukuro didn’t even notice, appear on her body starting then——?

「The【Twelfth Bullet <Yud Bet>】shot at you is an unpredictable and powerful skill that even I can match. Originally, it should return the object of use to the time-space marked at the starting point, which would be modified to reflect the changes done to the past. However…」

As the owner of <Zafkiel>, Kurumi offered her opinion to the now silent Mukuro.

「All the existing Reiryoku…or『the world itself』is loaded into you,『the future world』that was dried to its very last drop, will soon be perish with no doubt. Then『the path』connecting you to『the starting point』… can no longer be maintained」

This so-called『starting point』was『the future world』where Mukuro will be pulled back to after the effects of the time travel expired.

「If you cannot return to the original『starting point』, the original『coordinates』… you will have no choice but to disappear」

「——Kuh?」

Just like a spacesuit was torn off its lifeline.

The sad ending for astronauts who lost their connection to the place where they belonged was to be devoured by the darkness and became a piece of black algae (garbage).

「Muku will......disappear......?」

「Indeed. Your fate can no longer be changed anymore. ......Looking at this state of your body, time will not be on your side much longer」

To all this time, Kurumi of this world had been looking at Mukuro with resentment.

However, what was being directed at her now was neither resentment nor hostility, but『compassion』.

Or perhaps, it was a mutual feeling of being helpless.

「............Kurumi」

「......! Shido-san, Tohka-san......」

「What she just said......is it true? That Mukuro come from the future! That Mukuro is about to disappear?」

It was Shidou who uttered the frozen words. And Tohka whose voice grew rough.

It was unclear that how long they had been there in the shadow, but when they stepped out of it, their faces devoid of any color.

「Mukuro......are you really......?」

——Retribution had come.

As Shido leaned forward, Mukuro realized everything.

She had to confess everything, of her fading body, lies, truths along with her deeds.

「............Yes. Muku come from the future」

「Uh......!?」

「The original world............was annihilated by Muku’s own hand」

Shido and Tohka's astonishment was intensified by the shiver truth.

「A-Annihilated, what do you mean by that.........」

「In order to keep my master......Shido Itsuka alive, I took everything and destroyed it all」

That was the end of a certain story.

In the world where Mukuro walked, Shido and his friends sealed away all spirits and faced the final battle with DEM. Due to Westcott's strategy, the battle ended in victory with the participation of a mysterious Spirit called〈Phantom〉. However, as every victory came with price, Kurumi was the first to laid down, and Shido himself was in a life-threatening situation.

Facing Shido's imminent death, Mukuro broke down.

The moment she realized that Shido, the boy who reminded her of herself, the boy who had said that he would be her family, was dying, Mukuro was driven to madness by anger and sorrow, decided to kill other Spirits to save him. Magicians and the like, she attacked them all, and poured as much the spiritual power as she could take together into the dying Shido. Ignoring Kotori and the others' pleas, she let the world ran amok.

In the end, Shido did not die. He just couldn’t die.

The rest was as Mukuro regretted. It was all a matter of pressing the wrong button.

If only Kurumi, the one who controlled time, hadn't died. If only〈Phantom〉hadn't fallen into DEM's trap.

If only Shido hadn't taken away by death...they might have gotten『a slightly better ending』.

However, what the world of Mukuro faced was the irreparable『destruction of the entire world』.

VOLUME 17

Spoiler

──That day.
In the central part of the Eurasia continent, the wind was silent as if heralding the arrival of a storm.
Three figures stood amidst the open wilderness.
Ike, Elliot, Ellen.
The three magicians who had grown up to be beyond recognition from that time had come to gather here.
「──Shall we get started. Karen, get ready」
『Roger that』
In response to Ike’s words, Karen’s voice could be heard from the observatory through the communication device.
At the same time, the device designed to draw out the circle──the magical furnace began to start up while growling out a low howl.
From the skies, from the earth, from the air.
The energy that resides in every substance in the world turned into dazzling light, swirling and coiling around the surroundings.
── 『Spirit Formula』.
That was the name Elliot had given to this ritual.
Gathering all of the mana present in the world to a single focal point to create a new life.

 

[Omazio2019]

I'm sending the raw of scan if you don't mind, just in case someone question the validity of translation

Spoiler

「……My Voluntary Territory is constantly being developed in this world, only being separated by a single thin piece of film. And now that I have summoned the nucleus of〈Samsara Of Paradise (Ain Soph)〉here, the area around the center has become──the『Neighboring World』」
「Neighboring World──」
Upon hearing Mio’s word, Tohka wrinkled her brow.That name felt familiar to her. The world adjacent to this world. The world where Spirits lived. Although there was no relevant memory, it can be said that Tohka came to this world from there.

「……Didn’t I say it? Here, the neighboring world has already overwritten this world. ──This is my world. Everything, all logic, all natural laws are different from the world you know. In my world, attacking〈Samsara Of Paradise (Ain Soph)〉has become impossible. ──Just like how people cannot survive underwater or apples falling from trees cannot disappear into the sky」
At the same time as Mio was speaking, Mukuro, who just suffered a fatal blow from her own Angel, collapsed onto to the black and white ground. The Limited Astral Dress covering her body disappeared into particles of light. From her back, a Sephira Crystal emitting an orange glow had appeared.
「Ku ……!」

Spoiler

──Slowly, slowly swaying back and forth
──Quickly, quickly turning around.It was a space where one couldn’t tell where was up or down. The sensation ofswimming in lukewarm water, the invasive feeling of being sucked into darkness,it was a mysterious state of coexistence.
No──it wasn’t just the orientation of this space.
There was the feeling of a lack of ownership in one’s own body. A sense of incompatibility where the slightest hint of carelessness would cause a person’shands and feet to dissolve into this world.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Anyway, we should contact an staff member to come here and evaluate the Low 2-C and CM2 upgrades.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

After checking out the thread, I find myself in agreement with the OP. I might need to think about CM2 for Reiryoku, but tier 2 is solid imo.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Low 2-C stuff looks good, but CM2 is not my strong point.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Thank you for your input DDM, as the Low 2-C upgrade isn't controversial and DAL isn't a very popular series on the wiki, i think we can apply them already, since according to our discussion rules:
"▪︎For content revisions that affect Tier 2 or higher, the participation of at least one Administrator in the review and approval process is required."
Although i would like one more staff approval before.

So i suggest that we finish the Low 2-C stuff right now and later deal with that CM2 thing with more proof in another thread, what do you guys think? i think taking one step at time would be better.

 

[Catpija]

I guess that works too. I'll probably try to do CM2 in another separate thread and try to collect more convincing feats along the way.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Thank you for your input DDM, as the Low 2-C upgrade isn't controversial and DAL isn't a very popular series on the wiki, i think we can apply them already, since according to our discussion rules:
"▪︎For content revisions that affect Tier 2 or higher, the participation of at least one Administrator in the review and approval process is required."
Although i would like one more staff approval before.

So i suggest that we finish the Low 2-C stuff right now and later deal with that CM2 thing with more proof in another thread, what do you guys think? i think taking one step at time would be better.

This is an entire tier upgrade and it appears to be quite controversial. I advice you to consult with DDM before making the changes.

 

[Shadowbeast]

This is an entire tier upgrade and it appears to be quite controversial. I advice you to consult with DDM before making the changes.

Ik, i've already asked another staff member to come here and evaluate it. Besides, the tier 2 upgrade isn't really controversial, the CM2 is but we decided to leave it for another thread and only deal with Low 2-C stuff for now.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Ik, i've already asked another staff member to come here and evaluate it. Besides, the tier 2 upgrade isn't really controversial, the CM2 is but we decided to leave this for another thread.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, this CRT has not yet been concluded, right?

 

[Shadowbeast]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, this CRT has not yet been concluded, right?

Yes, we're waiting another staff's input on here.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Yes, we're waiting another staff's input on here.

It seems like this CRT is rather major due to its tier change and effect on the entire verse.

@Catpija You'll need a minimum of two staff members for this to be approved or three if it's going to spark controversy. Sorry, I'm reverting your edits.

 

[Catpija]

It seems like this CRT is rather major due to its tier change and effect on the entire verse.

@Catpija You'll need a minimum of two staff members for this to be approved or three if it's going to spark controversy. Sorry, I'm reverting your edits.

Its alright, thanks for the clarification

 

[Shadowbeast]

It seems like this CRT is rather major due to its tier change and effect on the entire verse.

@Catpija You'll need a minimum of two staff members for this to be approved or three if it's going to spark controversy. Sorry, I'm reverting your edits.

That's fine, we can wait another staff's input on this upgrade.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You are aware the verse got downgraded from tier 2 and attempts to get it back failed right? Too many implications suggest it is 5-B, let alone the "endless", "infinite" universe/cosmos is useless when nothing indicates they affect that ever, world isnt interchangable with universe

 

[MeiouHades]

You are aware the verse got downgraded from tier 2 and attempts to get it back failed right? Too many implications suggest it is 5-B, let alone the "endless", "infinite" universe/cosmos is useless when nothing indicates they affect that ever, world isnt interchangable with universe

Does it use world instead of universe?

 

[Shadowbeast]

You are aware the verse got downgraded from tier 2 and attempts to get it back failed right?

We're using different arguments this time and we're providing a lot of context to it, even using the japanese raw scans. Not only basing the Low 2-C on a "universal space" quote meaning an universe like the past attemps from the supporters.

 

[Catpija]

You are aware the verse got downgraded from tier 2 and attempts to get it back failed right? Too many implications suggest it is 5-B, let alone the "endless", "infinite" universe/cosmos is useless when nothing indicates they affect that ever, world isnt interchangable with universe

Unless at this time, they are specifically talking about timeline when they used the term "world".

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Show one instance in mio or tohka cases where world means universe, cuz that aint helping with anything in an unrelated matter from them

Mio world is clearly stated its 5-B in size and that much is enough to call it one, saying tohka can destroy a star with a finger doesnt imply pr suggest the size of the world is bigger

 

[Shadowbeast]

Show one instance in mio or tohka cases where world means universe, cuz that aint helping with anything in an unrelated matter from them

Mio world is clearly stated its 5-B in size and that much is enough to call it one, saying tohka can destroy a star with a finger doesnt imply pr suggest the size of the world is bigger

This is a misinterpretation of our argument which is not even based on the neighboring world, Mio Takamiya is the Reiryoku itself in the DAL series:

https://imgur.io/a/MvWMEZr#cjJxkFF

"The energy that resides in every substance in the world turned into dazzling light, swirling and coiling around the surroundings.──
『Spirit Formula』.That was the name Elliot had given to this ritual. Gathering all of the mana present in the world to a single focal point to create a new life."

Reiryoku is not only the energy that resides in every substance in the world and fuels the powers of the spirits, but it also supports the entire main universe in DAL or better said, it supports an entire timeline in DAL, which is Low 2-C.
Reiryoku is also capable of undoing the entire existence of the DAL universe:

https://imgur.io/a/Mnw9vQk#Wp9g59H

"There was no way to collect the large amount of Reiryoku needed to fill more than a year and a half. Kurumi, who understood the power of more than anyone else, concluded that it was『impossible』.
「If it wasn’t for something like sacrificing the world itself… then it would be impossible」"

"「All the existing Reiryoku…or『the world itself』is loaded into you,『the future world』that was dried to its very last drop, will soon be perish with no doubt. Then『the path』connecting you to『the starting point』… can no longer be maintained」.

Furthermore, we have claims that the universe in DAL have an infinite size:

https://imgur.io/a/0PeAuSh#HbkVH3k

"A figure stood amidst the pitch-black darkness. No——to be precise, amidst a sea of stars. Hoshimiya Mukuro slowly drifted, her long hair dancing with glimmers of shining light and elegant grace. Overhead was the limitless stygian cosmos."

So we have an infinite 3-D area of cosmos in DAL, or an High 3-A spatial size + space-time continuum quotes that Catpija adressed right above, making the main universe Low 2-C.

Mio's world size is irrelevant to this upgrade, as the upgrade relies on the Reiryokyu and the main universe's cosmos and not on neighboring world's cosmos.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This is a misinterpretation of our argument which is not even based on the neighboring world, Mio Takamiya is the Reiryoku itself in the DAL series:

https://imgur.io/a/MvWMEZr#cjJxkFF

"The energy that resides in every substance in the world turned into dazzling light, swirling and coiling around the surroundings.──
『Spirit Formula』.That was the name Elliot had given to this ritual. Gathering all of the mana present in the world to a single focal point to create a new life."

How is that remotely helping this....nowhere says she is the reiryoku itself anyway

Reiryoku is not only the energy that resides in every substance in the world and fuels the powers of the spirits, but it also supports the entire main universe in DAL or better said, it supports an entire timeline in DAL, which is Low 2-C.
Reiryoku is also capable of undoing the entire existence of the DAL universe:

https://imgur.io/a/Mnw9vQk#Wp9g59H

"There was no way to collect the large amount of Reiryoku needed to fill more than a year and a half. Kurumi, who understood the power of more than anyone else, concluded that it was『impossible』.
「If it wasn’t for something like sacrificing the world itself… then it would be impossible」"

none of that suggests it sustains a timeline, it says it could hold barely 2 years almost

"「All the existing Reiryoku…or『the world itself』is loaded into you,『the future world』that was dried to its very last drop, will soon be perish with no doubt. Then『the path』connecting you to『the starting point』… can no longer be maintained」.

None of that is a timeline, future world =/= timeline, also afaik in previous threads sekai is used for world which is 101 just tier 5 levels

Furthermore, we have claims that the universe in DAL have an infinite size:

https://imgur.io/a/0PeAuSh#HbkVH3k

"A figure stood amidst the pitch-black darkness. No——to be precise, amidst a sea of stars. Hoshimiya Mukuro slowly drifted, her long hair dancing with glimmers of shining light and elegant grace. Overhead was the limitless stygian cosmos."

So we have an infinite 3-D area of cosmos in DAL, or an High 3-A spatial size + space-time continuum quotes that Catpija adressed right above, making the main universe Low 2-C.

which is irrelevant, no character affected anything on the universe itself at all to begin with

Mio's world size is irrelevant to this upgrade, as the upgrade relies on the Reiryokyu and the main universe's cosmos and not on neighboring world's cosmos.

No its not, Mio wanted to overwrite the main world with the neighbouring one, you wanna tell me she overwrites your tier 3/2 place with a tier 5 one somehow? Its not working

Let alone if she had all that energy you hype her as for universal power, why did her birth only could pull off a tier 5 sized world

Also the 2nd biggest thread where the verse got tier 4 instead of tier 5 after downgrade, had used kurumi timeline corelation as well and it still failed for a tier 3/2 rating, also the main world being an infinite cosmos was brought up as well and was irrelevant since that never was affected to begin with

This was brought up before but the verse should need a rule against tier 2 upgrade attempts

 

[Omazio2019]

Show one instance in mio or tohka cases where world means universe, cuz that aint helping with anything in an unrelated matter from them

Based on the fact that it is "the neighboring world" where the spirits come from, which is universal in size i think and of course there's one and only one "the neighboring world".

Spoiler

「……My Voluntary Territory is constantly being developed in this world, only being separated by a single thin piece of film. And now that I have summoned the nucleus of〈Samsara Of Paradise (Ain Soph)〉here, the area around the center has become──the『Neighboring World』」
「Neighboring World──」
Upon hearing Mio’s word, Tohka wrinkled her brow.That name felt familiar to her. The world adjacent to this world. The world where Spirits lived. Although there was no relevant memory, it can be said that Tohka came to this world from there.

「……Didn’t I say it? Here, the neighboring world has already overwritten this world. ──This is my world. Everything, all logic, all natural laws are different from the world you know. In my world, attacking〈Samsara Of Paradise (Ain Soph)〉has become impossible. ──Just like how people cannot survive underwater or apples falling from trees cannot disappear into the sky」
At the same time as Mio was speaking, Mukuro, who just suffered a fatal blow from her own Angel, collapsed onto to the black and white ground. The Limited Astral Dress covering her body disappeared into particles of light. From her back, a Sephira Crystal emitting an orange glow had appeared.
「Ku ……!」

Spoiler

“……What on earth is that different space?”
The aerial warship was floating the in the skies above Tenguu City, which had already transformed into a battlefield.
On the bridge, the chairperson of the Round Table, Karen Mathers let out a calm but also somewhat anxious voice.
But it was no wonder after all. Even amidst the fierce battle, suddenly the probe detected a spiritual wave response from the Spirit of Origin.
Immediately afterwards, the mysterious Angel appeared and was followed by that strange space. From the surroundings where that occurred, whether it was enemy Wizards, automatic dolls, or even airships like their flagship , all response reactions had disappeared.
Looking at this alone, although it was irregular, had won.However, the situation was not that simple.
That’s right. The response of Itsuka Shidou, the key point of had also disappeared. Even their own flagship sank in front of that Angel.The abnormal battlefield was akin to a king being absent on the chessboard.Right now, DEM was also caught in situation of uncertainty. Well, even if they knew Westcott had been defeated, it was not impossible for them to seek out revenge──but compared to that, it was a simple action to continue fighting the enemy in front of themselves.However, as far as Karen was concerned, both sides were undoubtedly caught in a panic. This would only add further fatigue to both sides. While getting a grip on the current situation, Karen attempted to analyze the foreign space while the battlefield was still inert.
However, the more investigation spent, the more difficult it was to understand.Although it was understood that the barrier-like space was formed with the Angel as its core, the attributes of reiryoku comprising it were constantly changing everso slightly. Just by turning away for one second, it would transform into something completely different.
Although the size difference was comparable of an elephant to an ant, it resembled a Wizard’s Voluntary Territory──
“──No way, the neighboring world──?”
As Karen said that, a crew member sitting by a nearby seat suddenly raised his voice.
“This is──”
“What happened?”
“Y-yes. I’ve picked up the single from the autonomous camera injected by to investigate the different space from the outside……there are objects there resembling the Spirits’ bodies……”
“What did you say?”
Karen frowned as she peaked into the crew member’s personal display.Indeed, as he said, there were several Spirits collapsed on the ground. Amongthem included ’s captain, Itsuka Kotori.
“Ku.”
A small frustrated sigh leaked out from her.It had already been confirmed that Tokisaki Kurumi and the Yamai sisters had been killed by the Spirit of Origin. But to think in such a short amount of time──
“……Wait a minute, are this all of the visuals?”
“Yes, at least all that we have right now.”
“…………”
In response to the crew member’s retort, Karen placed her hand against her chin.It might have just been a mistake. Or perhaps that person did not encounter theSpirit of Origin yet.
But certainly──when determining the number of corpses displayed on the visual,there was one person missing from the number of Spirits that had entered thedifferent space.

Spoiler

Maya took a deep breath and confessed the role of the Second Region Chokmah in the Neighboring World.
Finally, everyone who heard this story understood as well. To turn into that.
The Neighboring World was as gentle as heaven, but on the other hand, if a dependable sheet was lifted from the surface——there would be an infinite hell spreading outward.

Arriving at the Fifth Region Gevurah, Kurumi had a fed up look at the barren scenery that seemed to be endless. Rugged and dark rocky mountains, there was a brilliant red glow in several places that came from the lava.

A single sigh.Jugasaki looked up in the sky and whispered.
「Hey will we also be able to fall in love?」
「I suppose it's possible? Although I'm not in love with anyone yet」
「You are a lonely person, Kareha-chan」
「I don't think it matters. Ah, the exit should be coming up」
Jugasaki looked up as well. The sky that glowed white past the golden sky was infinite.
Intuitively, Jugasaki understood that this was the end.
「Alright, let's wake up together!」
「It's because of you that I've had such a hard time-Reaching out to touch the sky, it was like holding a film of air. After pressing hard against it, the film suddenly burst. With that, both of them had finally noticed. It seemed that they had both been underwater until now.

Spoiler

Yamauchi Sawa decided to destroy the Neighboring World.
What was the purpose of this Neighboring World? Why was it born and why did it continued to exist like this?
Yamauchi Sawa didn't understand either point. However, there was one thing she could say for sure. Rather than naturally occurring like the cosmos, this Neighboring World was an artificial world.
It was enough if she could understand that much. Rather, by setting that as a limiter for her understanding, perhaps she was afraid of being detected by the person who created this world.
However, asking what this world symbolized was a different matter.Yamauchi Sawa understood. There are various rumors, studies, dissertations spread amongst Quasi-Spirits, but the general consensus was that this was『the world after death』.
Calling it the world after death was simple enough, but that image varies from country to country. Hell, Underworld, Valhalla, and so on.
However, there was one universal point shared between every country's religious views. The world after death is a world of only souls after abandoning their bodies. Even if their bodies had seemingly revived, that must mean at any rate——they must have at least once abandoned their bodies.
The Neighboring World was a world sewn together by enormous Reiryoku and an enormous girl's soul. Enormous Reiryoku——let alone a sun, if that amount of energy was comparable to a galaxy, it could make the impossible be possible.
Input specific time and coordinates, and then releasing that energy towards that.
Time would rewind and the future could change. Yamauchi Sawa would never die and the past would be changed so she would continue existing as Tokisaki Kurumi's friend.
...Unfortunately, she didn't know the person who turned her into a Spirit. At the very least, if she knew who it was, it may be possible to change the past by extinguishing that person with the energy of the Neighboring World.
Up to that point, Yamauchi Sawa was thinking and acting on this while raising havoc through the Neighboring World. However, one problem created from there.
It was the means to unite the enormous Reiryoku squirming in this Neighboring World. After all, although there is only the soul in this Neighboring World, there are countless girls in possession of hearts. These girls could either scatter Reiryoku by using it, or simply choose to disappear.
She attacked the Third Region Binah to become Dominion, stockpiling on information from well-informed Quasi-Spirits in the process. But even so, she still couldn't find a way to unify the Reiryoku.
However, one piece of information arrived to Sawa after she became Dominion.
——The story of a single boy occasionally slipped into the Neighboring World.

「Please think back. After all, what is a Spirit? A Spirit isn't just an alien that suddenly appeared flying from (another) universe or a life that arises from nothing. It is a magical lifeform the magician Isaac Westcott created by gathering and collecting all of the mana in the world.——So then what does a Spirit’s disappearance mean?」

 

[Omazio2019]

Let alone if she had all that energy you hype her as for universal power, why did her birth only could pull off a tier 5 sized world

You mean this?

And to the last revision of DAL(not this one) that I remember, the translation of "Voluntary territory" is quite a mistranslation and misunderstanding.

Its original text:
——随意 領域。人が思い描いたことを現実とする、万能の空間。 計算が正しければ、これより生まれ出でる精霊が持つその空間は、地球を覆い尽くすほどの規模を誇っているはずだ。そ れこそ、もう一つの世界——隣界、とでも呼ぶべき規模をね
人が思い描いたことを現実とする、万能の空間 (A universal space that can make any wish of people comes true)
Neighboring world limited to humanity imagination is irrelevant and "universal" here means multi-functions/multiple-cabilities rather than size.

--Voluntary Area. An universal space where what one imagines becomes reality. If our calculations are correct, the space held by the spirit that will be born from this point on will be so large that it will cover the entire earth. It would be on the scale of what we might call another world-neighborhood.
I don't see anything that implied the space should be only limited to tier 5

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You literally use hyperbole words, its simply once again another attempt at wanking the verse like in the past, infinite hell or seeming to be endless isnt proof of size of a universe

« If the calculation is correct, the space of the spirits born from this should be large enough to cover the earth »

DaL Volume 17 - Fragment Chapter: The Birth of the Spirit

« Eh? ……That’s true, I guess a sun would be too large »

DaB Volume 1 - Chapter Empty

Those things from the last thread attempting Tier 2 DAL were brought up, debunking and enforcing neighbouring world is just tier 5 at max

And dont give the excuse of "nothing implies its limited to tier 5 only" they literally say it covers just that much and a scale of that size can be called a world

DAL has no proof that world = universe or cosmos, especially of infinite size, neither was world ever used in exchange with those either for that matter

 

[Omazio2019]

You literally use hyperbole words, its simply once again another attempt at wanking the verse like in the past, infinite hell or seeming to be endless isnt proof of size of a universe




Those things from the last thread attempting Tier 2 DAL were brought up, debunking and enforcing neighbouring world is just tier 5 at max

And dont give the excuse of "nothing implies its limited to tier 5 only" they literally say it covers just that much and a scale of that size can be called a world

DAL has no proof that world = universe or cosmos, especially of infinite size, neither was world ever used in exchange with those either for that matter

Ok, that's weird too since Mio gain the creating sun feat through Neighboring World and it could be that Hibiki or Emty has lost her memory

Otherwise how could a dimension that has starry sky couldn't bear a sun?

It's a word of Empty Hibiki from who was still missing her memory, it even has starry sky in world how the hell it couldn't bear a sun?
« If the calculation is correct, the space of the spirits born from this should be large enough to cover the earth ». This doesn't matter too since something on universal size could obviously cover the earth.

 

[Shadowbeast]

none of that suggests it sustains a timeline, it says it could hold barely 2 years almost

What? a year and a half is the time that Mukuro spent in that timeline. However, even going by your assumption, this is still Low 2-C man, we have scans that directly say that Reiryoku can undo the entire universe's existence. It doesn't matter if the timeline is maintained for just 1 or 2 years, the Reiryoku is capable of tearing apart the fabric of reality and destroying everything in the DAL cosmos.

None of that is a timeline, future world =/= timeline, also afaik in previous threads sekai is used for world which is 101 just tier 5 levels

That future world that you're talking about is literally the DAL cosmos, Mukuro's true route takes place in the main universe of DAL, the timelines have the same size already established in the series for the main universe, which is Low 2-C.

which is irrelevant, no character affected anything on the universe itself at all to begin with

bro Mio Takamiya as we're proposing is the Reiryoku, that thing can destroy the entire DAL universe which is a Low 2-C structure.

How is that remotely helping this....nowhere says she is the reiryoku itself anyway

How so? Reiryoku in DAL is an energy that fuels the powers of each spirit, it's literally the fuel for their Angels and powers. They literally refer to her in the scan as "Spirit Formula" although i think Catpija and Omazio can explain she being the Reiryoku better than me.

No its not, Mio wanted to overwrite the main world with the neighbouring one, you wanna tell me she overwrites your tier 3/2 place with a tier 5 one somehow? Its not working

Let alone if she had all that energy you hype her as for universal power, why did her birth only could pull off a tier 5 sized world

Also the 2nd biggest thread where the verse got tier 4 instead of tier 5 after downgrade, had used kurumi timeline corelation as well and it still failed for a tier 3/2 rating, also the main world being an infinite cosmos was brought up as well and was irrelevant since that never was affected to begin with

This was brought up before but the verse should need a rule against tier 2 upgrade attempts

? irrelevant to this discussion.

This was brought up before but the verse should need a rule against tier 2 upgrade attempts

No, as those arguments are entirely different from the ones from the last time.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Alright, here's some more additional proof for Low 2-C DAL and Mio Takamiya:

Reiryoku is the energy linked to spirits that permeates the entire DAL cosmos alongside Maryoku which is the energy linked to wizards. It can be used in different ways, ranging from creating spirits, destroying the universe or serving as the fuel for the spirit's powers. Without Reiryoku, a spirit loses all of its supernatural capabilities, like the time Westcott stole Nia's Sephira Crystal which is imbued with Reiryoku and left her with very few reserves of energy to use her powers. It is then established in the series that the Sephira Crystals, objects with some good amount of Reiryoku are the source's of a spirit's power.


Mio's birth was only possible through the collection of all the Reiryoku spread in the world, all condensed for the creation of one single spirit. That is, Mio was the first spirit to come into existence and the source of all spirits. As stated in the scans above, Reiryoku is an energy that flows through the universe and is used only by spirits. For a long time, the word "spirit" was only assigned to Mio Takamiya who was the only and first spirit in all of existence, soring an absurd amount of Reiryoku with her. She herself says this directly, her Reiryoku is so great that she managed to create all of the spirits just by distributing part of her Reiryokyu to them, in this case the creation of the Sephira Crystals. That's why Mio is referred to as being the "Spirit Formula" and it's why Westcott wants to steal the Spirit Formula for himself, the Reiryoku of Mio inside her Sephira Crystal is really huge. Therefore, it should be valid to believe that Mio with her Reiryokyu scales to the Low 2-C Reiryoku of the world as Catpija proposed. As discussed, Miss Takamiya keeps with her an incredibly huge reserve of Reiryoku which can be compared to the Reiryoku of the universe. In addition to the fact that for her birth, it was necessary to bring together all of the Reiryoku scattered in the world.

 

[Antvasima]

@Catpija

Is this your wiki account? If so, I need to change your forum username accordingly.

Tohka Yatogami

Tohka Yatogami (夜刀神 十香, Yatogami Tōka) is one of the main female characters (and antagonists in her devil form) of the Date A Live series. She is also the first spirit saved by Shido Itsuka. Tier: 6-C | At least Low 7-C when sealed | High 6-C, likely higher | At least High 6-C | Low 2-C, higher...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Omazio2019]

@Catpija

Is this your wiki account? If so, I need to change your forum username accordingly.

Tohka Yatogami

Tohka Yatogami (夜刀神 十香, Yatogami Tōka) is one of the main female characters (and antagonists in her devil form) of the Date A Live series. She is also the first spirit saved by Shido Itsuka. Tier: 6-C | At least Low 7-C when sealed | High 6-C, likely higher | At least High 6-C | Low 2-C, higher...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Since you're here, Antvasima. Can you make your own judgement? Otherwise could you tag the other staffs here please?

 

[Catpija]

@Catpija

Is this your wiki account? If so, I need to change your forum username accordingly.

Tohka Yatogami

Tohka Yatogami (夜刀神 十香, Yatogami Tōka) is one of the main female characters (and antagonists in her devil form) of the Date A Live series. She is also the first spirit saved by Shido Itsuka. Tier: 6-C | At least Low 7-C when sealed | High 6-C, likely higher | At least High 6-C | Low 2-C, higher...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Uh no, that was my friend's. My fandom account is blocked, so I asked him to do it for me

 

[Omazio2019]

While i was reading the novel, i've found some anti-feats regarding Catpija's proposal, since the novel makes clear that Mio's Reiryoku isn't infinite. For example, creating sephira crystals requires a large amount of her Reiryoku, Mio cannot continually create them, that unless Catpija have some good counter argument against this, we"see.

I don't think that gonna be anti-feat since Mukuro who load the entire Reiryoku in the world couldn't last for more than 2 year. It's not always required an infinite amount of energy to create/destroy an infinite universe. Though, this scan of your just got me questions of the stamina status of Mio which is listed as limitless

 

[Shadowbeast]

I don't think that gonna be anti-feat since Mukuro who load the entire Reiryoku in the world couldn't last for more than 2 year.

Do you have scans for this and can explain it better? It's been a year since i read Mukuro's true route and i never managed to get a digital version of it again, so i don't remember things there very well. Also iirc Mukuro just fused her personal Reiryoku with the Reiryoku of the universe.

It's not always required an infinite amount of energy to create/destroy an infinite universe.

I agree but i still think we should list her feats with the neighboring world and the real world in her profile, the feats of creating, manipulating and rewriting one universe with another one, to make her Low 2-C more legit.

Though, this scan of your just got me questions of the stamina status of Mio which is listed as limitless

It's with Law Manipulation or Ain Soph, Mio's own stamina isn't infinite by itself.

 

[Catpija]

I had the same opinion as Omazio2019.
You don't necessarily need infinite stamina to gain Low 2-C. The statements can be interpreted as Mio's limited amount of Angels that she could give to the Sephira Crystals, It also doesn't make any sense to continually waste reiryoku when it will reduce her power especially since Mio is depicted to be one of the smartest fella in the verse.

Though, this scan of your just got me questions of the stamina status of Mio which is listed as limitless

It was via Ain Soph iirc

Neighboring World = Low 2-C

Wasn't there an antifeat about how Neighboring World can't contain a star due to its sheer size?

Although we should still keep the Low 2-C proposals and they should be fine, as the neighboring world and the real world's sizes are legitimately universal. Both Mio and Westcott had full control and could overwrite the universe with another universe.

Nah. There are already a lot of threads arguing for this and it was concluded that at that context, world refers to planet.

 

[Catpija]

Do you have scans for this and can explain it better? It's been a year since i read Mukuro's true route and i never managed to get a digital version of it again, so i don't remember things there very well. Also iirc Mukuro just fused her personal Reiryoku with the Reiryoku of the universe.

It wasn't Mukuro, it was Shido

 

[Omazio2019]

Wasn't there an antifeat about how Neighboring World can't contain a star due to its sheer size

You should read the comments above, that anti-feat was debunked