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SamanPatou

VS Battles
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So, the long awaited moment (at least for me) has finally come! Time to bring some order.

This CRT has two purposes. The first is to adjust tiers and speed, and the second to get rid of all the material that is taken from the OVA and the comics (I will make profiles for them in the future, though).

For this CRT I will use this article (which is the transliteration of these two guides and was established as reliable here) and these character profiles from the Darkstalkers Graphic Files. The Files have additional pages, but they just repeat things that can already be found in the article.

It is important to know that in the world of Darkstalkers the power of the soul is directly related to the sheer power of an individual. This is not only stated, but it's also proven by some examples, with the bigger one being Morrigan's soul, which was splitted in three parts and so was her power, given that they are the same thing.
The Darkstalkers are also ranked in Classes: S+, S, A+, A, B+, B, C and D.
These classes are related to power and are a good way to measure the strength of characters, but there are some declared exceptions, like Bishamon (The armor and sword, actually) being class D but having the strength of a class B+. The same is for humans, who are ranked as C, but an average C class Darkstalker is stated to be strong enough to wipe out an entire army of first class elite soldiers, something than a normal human can't do.
With that said, let's begin.

Low Tiers

AP:
They currently are 6-B scaling from Anakaris, who sunk Egypt in another dimension.
However, it's clear that he didn't move literally all the country, but only people and structures. The feat has been calculated, and despite all the odds and the variables, an end has been accepted.

They will now move from 6-B to low 7-B (1.67 Megatons). This also affects their lifting strength, that goes from class P to class T, always according to the calc.

Speed: They currently are Massively Hypersonic+ based on non-feat, i.e. Felicia being able to "lightning time".
This shouldn't be used at all, it's just some pseudo electric thing that shows up when Felicia switches from cat form to humanoid form. This isn't a proof of it being a real lightning, nor that it works as one and that the characters can move as fast as a real one. Felicia doesn't even have electric attacks.

Unfortunately, we don't have any reference for their speed from the games or from the guides, however I think they should settle at "At least Supersonic +, likely Higher" for being able to keep up and dodge attacks from BB Hood and Huitzil, both of which make large use of firearms, missiles and similar weapons.

Notes: The Huitzil units being able to fly in space at a speed far superior to that of light is exclusive to the comics, and as such it can't be used for the game counterparts.
It is also contradicted by the guides, that state multiple times how the Huitzils were built by Pyron direcly on Earth 65 millions years ago, with the purpose of exterminating the dinosaurs. Even in its ending, Huitzil never flew in space, only through different locations of Earth at unknown speed.
Interesting to note, also, is that Jon Talbain, in one of his win quotes, states that he will become stronger and surpass light itself, meaning that he hasn't done it yet.

These changes will affect even Donovan, because his current stats are given after the OVA, while in the games he never demonstrated to be comparable to characters in a superior tier like Pyron.

Mid Tiers

This category includes only the mortal/restricted form of Pyron and Demitri prior to absorbing the former's soul.
In general, we could define this as the tier for the A class Darkstalkers, because Demitri is one of them and had already reacquired his original power when he defeated Pyron.

AP: This one is very tricky, because we are almost without references. Their current tier, High 5-A, is based on Pyron being able to destroy planets with ease even in his weaker form (even though is isn't stated anywhere within canon material) and from a feat he performed in his ending, in which he grows to enormous size to wear Earth as a jewel, after having defeated all the other characters. This feat also has been calculated as 4-B, but not evaluated yet, but I'll talk of that later.

The problem now is that Demitri defeated him while he was still in his restricted, human-sized form and I doubt we can scale him from a feat performed while Pyron was gigantic.
A solution I was thinking of is to rate them as 4-C or similar, based on a Pyron's win quote, in which he states that he crushed stars. This is a thing that he very likely performed while he was giant, but this time he uses this statement to directly compare his power to that of his opponent, thus I think it's possible to use it as a method to give a tier to his restricted form and to Demitri, who defeated him. However, this quote is only present in the american version of the game, not in the japanese one, so I'm not sure if it can be considered valid or not (but nothing disproves it).

Speed: This is odd too, but should be easier. Currently they are MFTL+ scaling from Huitzil's comics-only space travel, and another feat performed by Pyron only in the OVA, and both of them can't be used. Luckily, Pyron's profile in the Graphic Files (that you can see among the others in the link I posted at the beginning) states that he can fly through space at the speed of light. This thing is likely performed while unrestricted, but I think this could be extended even to his mortal and smaller form. If it is accepted, they will simply go from MFTL+ to SoL.
It also shouldn't be related only to his size, since he is as big as a galaxy, meaning that he should already travel at a superior speed.


High Tiers:

AP: This is now pure scaling and will settle the current 3-C, but Demitri will have it too.
After defeating Pyron, Demitri consumed his soul, meaning that he acquired his power, which tops at 3-C for him having the size of a galaxy while unrestricted. To suggest such improvement, Demitri was also confident to face Belial and Morrigan, despite knowing at least part of Belial's power, since he battled him 100 years ago. This doesn't mean that he is on par or stronger than them, but is a good hint to the fact that he became considerably stronger than before.
Belial, Jedah, Morrigan and Lilith just upscale from Demitri.
It must be noted that Morrigan is very likely the one who canonically defeated Jedah, prior to merging with Lilith, and she is naturally an S class Darkstalker, so she scales too. Her form after merging with Lilith has the AP doubled, since Lilith was her other half.

Note: The current 4-A tier is unnecessary but still valid. The only change is that one of the evidences used to prove that Majigen has multiple stars in it is a piece of art used as the background between a match and another, and for the credits. Since it's not a real representation, it shouldn't be used. It isn't important though, because the stages of the game show that Majigen has at least one sun and multiple stars visible in the sky. Majigen is a real place where the characters move, live and fight. The guides also state that is a dimension created by Jedah using the soul of Ozom (an A+ class Darkstalker) and where he trapped both the Darkstalkers and part of the external world (Like Demitri's castle) to collect their souls and complete Shintai, the fetus of a new universe, which is located in one of the areas that compose Majigen.

Speed: Just as now, they upscale from Pyron, but they will become just FTL for being superior to him.
Alternatively, we can give them the same MFTL+ speed if we scale them to Pyron's speed while he is big as a galaxy, in the same way we do with his AP.

Extra:

Anita's adult key becomes Unknown in every stat. All the informations are a mix of ova and comics. There is a what if in a re release of Vampire Savior, in which she presumably fought and killed Dee, but everything is shrouded in mistery and we don't even know if it has really happened.
 
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Seems fine all round. I also think that Jedah should have his Low Godly be made over time and made into Mid regen.
 
Thank you for the feedback.

I'm planning to make a second CRT specifically made for the abilities, since there are several of them to be added and discussed, as well as a couple potentially removed.
Jedah's regen will be featured there.

What do you think should the speed of the high tiers be? Can we account the natural moving speed of true Pyron or we should keep them at FTL?
Funnily enough, Pyron was calculated as MFTL+ in his planet-sized form, so there are reasons to think that his normal SoL cruising speed is performed casually. After all, he travels just to find new planets to observe and eat.
 
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I also added to the op the fact that Anita should become unknown in her adult key, since all of the info used come from the comics and the ova.
In a re-release of Vampire Savior it is implied that she met Dee and presumably killed him, but we don't know if this thing has really happened nor how the fight went (or if there was a fight at all) and how Dee died.
She should be just Unknown, maybe referencing this what if.
 
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What would the wording be in that case? Those who scale to Pyron will just reference him, but Pyron himself? I'm not sure how to describe a speed given by the size.
 
I don't mind using supplemental evidence to talk about Anita honestly.

Another feat evidence for low-tiers is the zombie guy "tanking" a nuclear exposion
 
Thank you for replying.

Maybe I can make supplementary keys for Anita in the future, instead of multiple profiles, since she has a minor role in various media.

Lord Raptor's feat is weird, because in that ending he defeated Jedah (Or maybe was in the same place where Jedah was defeated) and was trying to absorb his power, but it was too much and he esploded.
And tanking isn't properly correct, he survived, but his head was blown away and we don't see what happened to the body.

What do you think of all the rest of the CRT?
 
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We don't know, it may be possible, some endings of Darkstalkers 3 are, others not.
This doesn't contradict anything, if we assume that wasn't Raptor the one who killed Jedah.
I don't think it would change anyway, that's Raptor trying to absorb Jedah's energy, which is still more than that of a nuclear explosion, and Raptor exploded from inside and was destroyed by it. I'm fairly sure you can't use it as a durability feat, even if you consider it like a normal explosion.
 
The explosion would be calculated and then used to determine both durability and AP (since they can hurt and kill each other).
But that isn't properly applicable, it's the explosion of a power much higher than any normal type of explosion and happened from inside of Lord Raptor, whose body got destroyed, if not worse.
And it shouldn't be too far from low 7-B anyway, which is the tier characters on Raptor's level are still going to have.
 
Right. I just think it's weird because it only happens after Raptor beats Jedah, implying he would at least scale evenly to him. But then he can't handle Jedah's power and explodes, which would imply that Jedah scales above him.
 
This mostly seems fine to me as well, but I am doubtful of scaling to Pyron's full size speed, if there are no actual indications of the small version scaling to this.
 
We know that small Pyron can very likely move at light speed, that's why I proposed to just scale the others from it or to use the big size speed due to the universal energy system that is soul = power, with Demitri who absorbed Pyron's soul.

Anyway, I'm neutral on the speed and I'm fine with both ends. I'm also waiting for Matthew's reply on the speed and if he agrees with everything else.
 
We have to decide if scaling the god tier to MFTL+ from galaxy size Pyron being a giant, and thus naturally moving at that speed, or just upscale them from casual Pyron moving at light speed.

Basically establish if the universal energy system is valid even in that case, because Ant had doubts about it.
 
The Huitzils feat comes only from the comics, though.
In the games they never flew to space, not even in the endings (both from Night Warriors and Vampire Savior).
Also we have multiple confirmations from the guides and the files about the fact that they were built directly on Earth by Pyron when he arrived on Earth 65 million years ago, another confirmation that they never flew in space.
Additionally, John has a quote in which states (even in the japenese one) that he has not yet reached light speed.

Pyron though, has a statement in the graphic files about his casually flying at the speed of light.
 
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No, the comics are not canon, they are on the same level as the ovas and the bad american cartoon (both of which came out before the comics)
The guides and the graphic files themselves explain how the story actually proceeded, and they even came out years before the comics. (the guides at least, the graphic files are almost copypastas in english)
 
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To add a quick timeline, the first three games came out in 1994, 1995 and 1997, the american toon in 1995, the ova in 1997 and finally there are several different manga that came out during the 90's. The Udon comics were released only in 2004, making them the latest secondary material (barring the crossover comic with Street Fighter started in 2017 and all the crossover videogames).
They definitely aren't canon and shouldn't be used at all, just as we don't use the all the material I referenced above.
The guides were specifically made to explain the background of the world and the characters, as well as how the story went between the two games.
The Graphic Files, which came out in 2009, cover everything that was stated in the original guides, and they make no mention of any secondary material, when talking of the plot.
They are no different from the distinction we make between manga and anime, superheroes comics and animations, other videogames with related non-canon manga like Zelda, etc..., Darkstalkers shouldn't be an exception, since we have enough material to cover the entirety of the characters.

I have the intention of making alternate profiles for those other media, though,with calcs and everything.


Regarding the speed, Pyron has a casual light speed for traveling through space, and in his big version he moves faster just due to his size.
Small Pyron and pre-absorb Demitri can perfectly have SoL speed based on that, with the top tiers being FTL because they greatly upscale from them. (As I wrote in the OP)
 
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I think that we can only scale from the small characters' speed feats that happen in the game continuity then.
 
Which ending?
In Darkstalkers 1 and 2 one of them kills Pyron on Earth and flies back to Mexico, In Vampire Savior they still remain on Earth.
Even in the additional text of the japanese arcade version of the first games there is no mention of such travel.
The latter mentions the 100 years time skip, but specifically states (twice) that they still are on Earth
 
No, the comics are not canon, they are on the same level as the ovas and the bad american cartoon (both of which came out before the comics)
The guides and the graphic files themselves explain how the story actually proceeded, and they even out years before the comics. (the guides at least, the graphic files are almost copypastas in english)
UDON comics also has Street Fighter and Darkstalkers share the same universe, morrigan appeared in a SF one about cammy
 
Have the issue with speed been solved? It's the last thing remained to settle, I think.
I mean, I'm not against them being MFTL+, but we don't have evidences from canon sources to scale anyone, not even from the Huitzils, given that their endings don't feature any space travel.
 
We will not scale Street Fighter characters from a crossover with Darkstalkers. They do not share anywhere near the same scale. It is just standard plot-induced stupidity to not break the story by having some characters be too powerful in relation to the others.
 
nobody asked for that to happen....i pointed the comics make the two share a universe, which neither acknowledge in their games, making them non canon
 
Udon Jedah is Low 2-C lol since they state it over and over that the Majigen is a parallel universe.

But then Street Fighter characters fight him relatively evenly. So maybe the Crossover Comic event isn't that reliable.
 
Can somebody summarise what we need to do here please?
 
Atm everything has been accepted and I replied to Matthew's questions about the speed of the high and god tier, which should be SoL for the former and FTL for the latter.
I'm just waiting for Matthew's reply, to see if he has other concerns (I sent him a PM), otherwise everything can be applied.
 
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