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Dark Souls Speed Issue

Dzhindzholia said:
So,what about it?I also agree with downgrade,either way it is outlier.

DS verse does not have good speed feats.
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Aside from dodging natural lightning called down by Gael, and also the speed of the storm-forming feat in the NK boss fight. DS highest tiers will not dip below Massively Hypersonic, but in no way are they Relativistic, either. This downgrade should definitely go through.
 
What about the DS3 top tiers? Unholy saw no issue with angel beams being light, which should scale to Gael, endgame Ashen one, and the Soul of Cinder. Downgrading the others seems fine.
 
It scales due to being able to be dodged. The beams actually don't have an AOE to them as you suggest. What happens with those beams when they hit the ground can be observed with really strong IRL lasers as well. The beams don't cause any stagger, as shown by https://youtu.be/nWxqMglVUEM?t=63m which would contradict it being a physical object. When even stuff like an enemy's breath or toxic gas causes a physical stagger, something that is an object like you describe being one of the very few effects in the game to not would be very strange.
 
Other than looking like light I don't recall there being any proof it is real light. And if it's the same as divine pillars then it can't be used because it has knockback. Honestly I would debate this furtherly but unfortunately I have entered into a perios where I have little free time, so I am leaving it at this.
 
Divine pillars is stated to being derived from the angels, and its knockback is probably just game mechanics. As shown by the video, angel beams don't have knockback or even flinch. Not having time's understandable though, and I agree with downgrading the people who don't scale to angel beams due to not being able to find anything else myself.
 
Downgrading those who wouldn't scale to the angles would basically mean downgrading almost the entirety of DaS3 with exception of Ringed City characters and Soul of Cinder.

as for their light, it really isn't said it's derived from them, just that it somehow became a foundation of an Angelic faith.

"Miracle of Gertrude, the Heavenly Daughter.

Brings down multiple pillars of light in vicinity.

The Queen's holy maiden Gertrude was visited by an angel, who revealed this tale to her.

Despite losing both her sight and voice, she was determined to record the tale. Ordinary men cannot decipher her fragmentary scrawl, nor comprehend how it became the foundation of the Angelic faith of Lothric."
 
Yeah, and I've accepted that everyone sans Gael, tier 4 Ashen one and SOC don't scale. The only other thing in the setting that could really be considered angelic is the darklurker, but it's more likely that it's related to these angels.
 
Wokistan said:
It scales due to being able to be dodged. The beams actually don't have an AOE to them as you suggest. What happens with those beams when they hit the ground can be observed with really strong IRL lasers as well. The beams don't cause any stagger, as shown by https://youtu.be/nWxqMglVUEM?t=63m which would contradict it being a physical object. When even stuff like an enemy's breath or toxic gas causes a physical stagger, something that is an object like you describe being one of the very few effects in the game to not would be very strange.
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The beams leave leave spear-like objects in the ground, that's why I said they're physical. Also, fairly certain spells like Pestilent Mist and Toxic Mist don't stagger
 
I was talking about divine pillars launching being due to game mechanics as it's only a thing due to the spell using the coding firestorm uses. Also toxic gas has stagger which is a clear example of game mechanics. Mist staggers you at absolutely no poise, and toxic mist wasn't what I was talking about. One of the enemies (not wolnir) has a breath attack that doesn't come out at high velocity yet staggers you regardless. I'll get back to you on the angel beams thing though. You're probably right about that, I just want to see what I can find.
 
Seriously, everyone in this thread uses gameplay mechanics as an argument, when the description of the spell clearly states that it is made of rays of sunlight, but in the game is tangible and causes lightning damage because the developers are lazy, I suggest we ignore the game and keep the speed rating.
 
Well in Divinity the Laser Ray attack is called light.

However, it doesn't display the properties of light, since it curves while channeling.
 
Therefir said:
Seriously, everyone in this thread uses gameplay mechanics as an argument, when the description of the spell clearly states that it is made of rays of sunlight, but in the game is tangible and causes lightning damage because the developers are lazy, I suggest we ignore the game and keep the speed rating.
Click to expand...
This
 
Therefir said:
Seriously, everyone in this thread uses gameplay mechanics as an argument, when the description of the spell clearly states that it is made of rays of sunlight, but in the game is tangible and causes lightning damage because the developers are lazy, I suggest we ignore the game and keep the speed rating.
Click to expand...
Just two things. First, every picture or use of Sunlight Spear paints it as electricity, even when Gywn uses it. Second, the item descriptions aren't always accurate. For example the item description narrarator doesn't seem to know what the Old Witch's Ring does. The description person isn't supposed to be omniscient either, otherwise we wouldn't have descriptions like for Remedy or the Ash Maiden's firekeeper soul, which are clearly speculation. As it stands I'd feel pretty confident in saying that no aspect of Sunlight Spear gives any truly solid indication that it's actually light, and quite a few say otherwise.

http://darksouls.wdfiles.com/local--files/miracles/sunlight-spear.png

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/remedy

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/old-witch-s-ring

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/fire-keeper-soul
 
Therefir said:
Seriously, everyone in this thread uses gameplay mechanics as an argument, when the description of the spell clearly states that it is made of rays of sunlight, but in the game is tangible and causes lightning damage because the developers are lazy, I suggest we ignore the game and keep the speed rating.
Click to expand...
Well well well, another fodder came here to get destroyed. No one honestly cares what the description says, the feats of the sunlight spear go against it being light in every way, it behaves like electricity, it is tangible, it has knockback, it even shows the ability to split and change direction at will.

There are so many feats of it not being light even someone who never played dark souls would claim it isn't light.

I told Keeweed once and now I'll tell you, no one cares what the developers intended to do,. The fact is, they made the sunlight spear the way it is today, and that's how you accept it.

Do you think the tiny being ring actually regenerates health? **** no it doesn't, does that mean we still accept Regenerationn given what the statement said but feats disproved?

Now remember this for all times

Abcfodder
 
@Overlord

Of course, if it had mass. Light doesn't have mass and thus is totally incapable of physically knocking someone backwards.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
Of course, if it had mass. Light doesn't have mass and thus is totally incapable of physically knocking someone backwards.
Click to expand...
light doesn't have mass, but it has momentum and thus it can push things, that's why things like solar sails exist
 
...?

It has speed. Momentum involves both mass and speed. Light has no mass. It has no momentum.

To physically move something you must have mass. This isn't conditional or varies at all. If you don't have mass, you can't push something back or do anything physically to it; light burns, but it cannot push anything.
 
Light does have momentum due to being made of photons which are massless and yet still possess momentum
 
The gas produced when some substances are evaporated or sublimated under the extreme heat from a laser can cause movement, but its not the laser itself doing that. Unless you're talking about something else.
 
No, I mean how some really strong lasers have moved rocks before, because it burns off the rock which results in it vaporizing and that gas produced causes movement. Idk about solar sails though.
 
Wokistan said:
No, I mean how some really strong lasers have moved rocks before, because it burns off the rock which results in it vaporizing and that gas produced causes movement. Idk about solar sails though.
Click to expand...
They're not referring to gas propulsion due to sublimation, they're referring to radiation pressure.
 
Ignoring whether or not lasers can push people around, is there anything other that the word of an unreliable narrator that says or implies that it's sunlight? It's picture is lightning, it's in game particle effects are lightning, and it's physics are lightning.

I get that there should be some leeway given to it because gameplay mechanics, but I'm not even seeing any real lore backing it up. As Weekly pointed out Gwyn uses lightning spear too so it's not like it's backed up by old man sunshine using it. Plus the description of it being sunlight makes sense even if it's electricity, it's not like the people of Lordran have been keeping up with their astronomy so to them the sun is just an insanely bright and hot light, anyone who has ever arc welded or seen lightning up close can tell you just how absurdly bright and hot electricity can get (as a reference a lightning bolt is around the brightness of 100 million light bulbs and five times as hot as the surface of the sun). There are even people today who think the sun is a big ball of electricity, so that's totally a mistake people could and do make.
 
The more compelling factors now are divine pillars and ds3 angels, which also have some doubt. It's been pretty much conceded by everoeve that sunlight spear isn't real light.
 
DS1 and 2 are downgraded to MHS, probably 3 as well if Divine pillars is considered an outlier.
 
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