Metroid Prime 2: Light of Aether downgrade

[JJSliderman]

So?

So, If the light suit is also meant to store light energy and use it continuously to keep away darkness, and was created by the energy regulating controllers that can recycle energy, it would make sense if the suit also recycled light energy to keep up the protection effect indefinitely.

Except, it'd be amping Samus' AP too if it amped her durability because it'd cross scale between shit and circle back.
And no, that isn't how Samus' suits work, at all, they expend energy.

Except Samus isn’t shooting enemies with pure concentrated light of Aether energy, it’s just missiles and light/dark beam shots. Plus, even if the suit was draining energy, Samus wouldn’t be wasting it permanently for reasons I said.

Completely ignoring the fact that everything on Dark Aether takes increased damage from the light beam.
We're talking about microscopic entities, of course they get messed up by it.

Samus can shoot into the storm all day with the light beam and nothing happens, prove they get messed up by it.

And no, Samus doesn't "completely overpower anything Dark Aether attempts to throw at her", that is simply not even true? She just becomes immune to the adverse elements, a hax/res thing, not dura.

And the elements on Dark Aether are primarily poisonous because of Phazon, and Phazon is a sentient being of its own (Meteor Strike lore) that tries to damage beings and has its own power level, Samus is overcoming that.

Wasn't my point, my point was between when they used it, and when we know it came back, there was a HUGE amount of time.
And, we know it wasn't instant, given it destabilized the planet to where they made note of it.

Making note of it says nothing about the timeframe, if you’re weakened in a fight it lasts about 10 seconds before you recognize it.

And you think it can refill naturally in literal minutes, or going by stuff below, mere seconds? Dude, prove this.

Ya missed the "gather" part of that lad.

Okay, Samus “gathers” energy from the environment all game as well.

Statement?

The actual worst examples you could have used.
17 and 18 have INFINITE energy, hence they can draw on it without limit, inveresely, can't use it all at once.

If you're comparing LoA/EM to them, you've ****** up, because that'd be a case where Samus is merely tapping into a power source, using only negligible bits of it, except it isn't infinite and can and will run out.

Also DBZ, hell that ain't even Nintendo.

Because of the regeneration to the energy provided by the controllers, the LoA is also effectively infinite in its recyclability, so at that point she can use it as much as needed to get the job done. And there are probably other series where this works too, like how Grand Stars in Mario keep the same power level despite being constantly used for energy to power Bowser’s reactors.

Yeah, I'm sure there is, but hey it regenerates within minutes according to you so why care?
Your argument, not stated mind you, is demonstrably not the case.

It only regenerates to a finite amount, the amount under control of the light or dark half of the planet. That’s why they need to re-establish control over it.

You mean the ammo that has a ammo limit that she expends with every light/dark attack?
Bruh...

Yes, and then she gets it back by absorbing it from parts of the environment.

Dude, statement, end of, we can go back and forth all day, hell I could argue this shit isn't even calcable, but **** it, statement given you're evidently going to repeat the same stuff.

If you look at the early years Luminoth lore they directly spell out the process of energy into the planet -> planet sustained -> regenerate energy, repeat.

8 minutes? That's even worse, and yes, that's exactly my point, it took EIGHT MINUTES for DA to collapse with 0 Energy.

Eight minutes is barely any time, if you wanna say that the feat gets divided by 480 to account for J/s then by all means.

You realize that's an issue right? That tells us the energy wasn't doing mass conversation stuff, it was simply sustaining it, and the dimensional collapse, is its own thing, that literally nobody even scales to given it KILLS Samus, and DS regen'd from particles.

Samus is in another dimension when it happens, we have no idea if it kills her or not because whether it kills her is irrelevant. She wouldn’t be able to get back to the light dimension and would just be in limbo forever.

The literal only thing you can even attempt to argue as EMC, that being the collapse, doesn't scale, but rather the actual act of sustaining it so it doesn't chain reaction and die is what scales and I don't think I need to explain why that takes an exponentially ludicrous less amount of energy.

The act of sustaining and the act of creating mass from the energy are one and the same, given that restoring the energy to Aether fully immediately recreates the rest of the planet on an atomic level, and without any energy to convert to mass to sustain Dark Aether, it reaches a point where there is no mass and the planet doesn’t exist (not just, in pieces, it ceases to exist)

My point was, even if the suit had better durability, it can be simply due to being better armor, not "oh it's actually using the whole of LoA to amp its durability directly 1:1 with it". You take the extreme high ends constantly based on nothing but conjecture, stop please.

Well if Samus is hypothetically scaled to Leviathan durability in the future, she would upscale the potency of the LoA in Prime 3 anyway because the Leviathan no-sold that.

Contextually he doesn't want ANY of it spent dude.
And case and point, you're assuming this, based on the premise she is amped by, she's using it constantly, she regenerates the energy she expends, and she's expending the highest amount always.
This, is headcanon you made up, no proof, no evidence. Stop it. Post statement and scans dude.

Except they spend the energy all the time? That’s, the whole point of the LoA? And yes, it’s conjecture, but it’s conjecture based on multiple pieces of provable evidence, explain why U-Mos would hold back power to give to Samus when he’s trying to stop an incredibly powerful evil force that has control over the same amount of Aether power that the light side has, AND can use it to amp himself.

So? Does he use it all? No. Does he use enough to make a dent in it? No. Then they don't scale.
Hell the fact he gets stronger based on what little he does use, isn't a very good indicator btw.

Yes he uses it, he evolved midway through the fight into a stronger mutated form that swaps between light and darkness power, and he directly shoots Samus with lasers from his eye (the same eye that is actually just a red orb, the same red orb that we see his version of the Light of Aether as just a few moments earlier if you watch the boss battle, and an orb that gets notably smaller in the final phase showing it was siphoned off of heavily ). So he is actively using energy from the LoA as a beam to eliminate Samus, multiple times.

No, it can't, this is headcanon. We know, because they say as much, that when used it's gone. You think they used LoA, had next to nothing, then 2 seconds later it came back because that's like the gap between some of Ing's attacks so same timeframe ig?
No, I'm not even going to humor this.

That’s literally not true, otherwise the planet would have died off years ago. We know that there was an energy crisis, and after building the energy controllers, there was no longer a crisis even though the same energy amount was required. The only logical explanation is the energy regenerating.

Which would mean they dont scale to it.

Which would mean that Samus is keeping roughly the same amount of LoA in her suit at all times, the same amount that can match the beams fired directly from half the light of Aether.

Dog that's like, actual gameplay mechanics wtf

And? Still doesn’t change how the health packs restores the same amount no matter how durable the suit is.

Yes, refill it, assuming she even can mind you because they don't state this at all and she obviously isn't doing it with known aspects of what the LoA is but for argument's sake, a puny ass geemer energy ball or limited ammunition, is not going to replenish any notable fraction of the LoA, I'm baffled this is even being argued.

This is assuming the LoA is even being expended or that Samus would need to restore it, because she doesn’t, and can restore it to full by just going back and returning the energy to the controller.

Yes, doesn't matter.

Even though that directly explains why the energy is going away or how the planet’s mass is kept in existence in a 1-1 ratio of energy loss-matter creation.

Post this.

That’s just how the planet works, the energy keeps the planet alive, and without the energy the planet will dissipate to nothing.

This isn't even actually true.

Light Beam< Light Suit in dealing with Dark Aether anomalies, this is a fact.

The context is "hey we need this shit, please get it back or we're ******", and then she gets it back and hands it over as is without all this made up shit you're talking about.

Yes, and to get it back U-Mos gives Samus a suit made of concentrated Light of Aether light

yeah via prep time, a big giga weapon, and that very fact left the planet weakened because the LoA was used up in part and didn't regen in like 1 second like you think it somehow can.

I never said 1 second, I said it can regenerate, and that’s enough for Samus to just keep trying by putting the energy back in the controller to recharge, since she can already beat normal Ing.

Lad, ya know the other suit is more durable just because it's made of like, better alloys and shit right? Energy tanks is unrelated to that, you kinda of conflating game mechanics with lore here.

So then the Light Suit is also made of better material than normal suits, being the light of Aether. Samus even demonstrated in the next game that she can beat the source of some great power even when holding a tiny fraction of it, by defeating Dark Samus amped by an entire origin planet of Phazon (log entry says she fused with AU that was symbiotically linked to the planet) despite only having a minuscule amount of Phazon herself. So even if Samus did only have a fraction of the LoA that was barely notable, her taking on the Emperor Ing utilizing a full half of the Light makes sense from a story perspective.

 

[SomebodyData]

Quite literally the same, see the power plant example. It is simply wiki standards, we need to know they use all of it, for all we know it could just be used as a mere energy source, like a manapool, kinda like Emperor Ing was quite literally doing or how Samus uses Reserve Tanks, it being absorbed, even assuming that she's using it, still doesn't mean she's using it all at once.

Plus, we know for a fact they aren't even doing that here. Especially when told that using the LoA, well, uses it up. If it's still there minutes later, 7 at most, they evidently didn't tap into it much, if at all.

You're talking about tech, like the boost ball. Upgrading a gun, is not the same as draining a negligible arbitrary fraction of a energy source, and then arguing "yeah because it siphoned this evidently very small amount, they must scale because he upgraded it apparently".

Could you imagine? Emperor Ing drains a lil bit and bam, upgrades that bit to be on par with the very thing he took from, energy crisis solved ig.
No, not only is Emperor Ing not stated or shown upgrading it, but it isn't even a comparable situation to modifying like, a gun, that other Ing do.

I don't disagree with the comparison, but by the Mutated Emperor Ing phase, the Light of Aether has noticeably become significantly smaller. It seems to have recovered at the end.

• Before Emperor Ing
• First Phase
• Mutated Emperor Ing
• After Emperor Ing

Though it's a bit more complicated. The tech the Ing absorb is data / energy so its not an analogy that works in this specific circumstance (I would otherwise agree with you). Either way, we do see the Emperor Ing undergo the same transformations as the Ing Guardians when they upgrade Samus' abilities.

 

[JJSliderman]

I can accept LoA not being mass energy conversion, although I still think Samus should scale to a significant portion of it.

I guess there’s also the argument that Aether has the same gravity as Tallon IV so, it’s way more massive than a normal planet and thus gets higher than baseline.

 

[Chariot190]

So, If the light suit is also meant to store light energy and use it continuously to keep away darkness,

Not really? It's no different than jumping into a flame?

and was created by the energy regulating controllers that can recycle energy,

Statement.

it would make sense if the suit also recycled light energy to keep up the protection effect indefinitely.

Not only does it not do it normally, but you're assuming the suit never stated to do that, does that too?
And besides, if, it is recycled, that wouldn't explain Ing and Samus, to be recycled, it obviously needs to have the means to retain that energy or have it cycle back to reutilize. This is kinda hard if it's being used to shoot energy beams and whatnot.

Except Samus isn’t shooting enemies with pure concentrated light of Aether energy, it’s just missiles and light/dark beam shots. Plus, even if the suit was draining energy, Samus wouldn’t be wasting it permanently for reasons I said.

Do you not even realize what you're arguing here?
You're arguing her durability scales, her AP scales to her durability, her AP would by proxy have been amped, if her dura was amped.
The reasons you said aren't real, they're made up, your "reasons" are not good enough.

Samus can shoot into the storm all day with the light beam and nothing happens, prove they get messed up by it.

k? They flash red and bounce away on contact? Ya know, the general Ing damage effect?
Even has the little pst sfx.

And the elements on Dark Aether are primarily poisonous because of Phazon, and Phazon is a sentient being of its own that tries to damage beings and has its own power level, Samus is overcoming that.

This, is completely irrelvant? It doesn't matter WHY it is, it just is, and the Light Suit protects against that.

Making note of it says nothing about the timeframe, if you’re weakened in a fight it lasts about 10 seconds before you recognize it.

Boy.

Okay, Samus “gathers” energy from the environment all game as well.

Why lie? She literally doesn't. She isn't sucking the planet dry of random non-tangible energy sources. Ever.

Because of the regeneration to the energy provided by the controllers

Isn't a thing. You made that up. If any regeneration is involved.

, the LoA is also effectively infinite in its recyclability,

Yeah except when they use it and it's gone, like idk, a giant **** off beam weapon

so at that point she can use it as much as needed to get the job done.

This is blatantly wrong.

And there are probably other series where this works too, like how Grand Stars in Mario keep the same power level despite being constantly used for energy to power Bowser’s reactors

Awful example given that would be because, his reactor doesn't use all the energy? We've seen energy sources in Mario get drained dry before, hell they turn brittle and into stone.

It only regenerates to a finite amount, the amount under control of the light or dark half of the planet. That’s why they need to re-establish control over it.

Based on what?
No, if it regenerates, why add an arbitrary cap to it? It doesn't make sense, why would it just stop?
Not even that, why is shit like geothermal energy regenerating? It can't do that? Being recycled is one thing if you want to go that route, but you people are arguing they're USING it, and we know if they use it, it's GONE.
Your whole point is made up of extrapolation and ignoring the very blatant contradictions.

Yes, and then she gets it back by absorbing it from parts of the environment.

This literally doesn't happen.
You know I've played Prime 2 right?

If you look at the early years Luminoth lore they directly spell out the process of energy into the planet -> planet sustained -> regenerate energy, repeat.

Literally doesn't state that, at all?

Eight minutes is barely any time, if you wanna say that the feat gets divided by 480 to account for J/s then by all means.

Can't divide a chain reaction like that. But the very fact it wasn't instant is the issue.

Samus is in another dimension when it happens, we have no idea if it kills her or not because whether it kills her is irrelevant. She wouldn’t be able to get back to the light dimension and would just be in limbo forever.

This is straight up wrong given Dark Samus was spat out after the collapse. If Samus could survive it, she'd have been spat out too and would have just radio'd a sip or something now that Aether doesn't have fucky EMP storms.

She very evidently dies, hence the game over. If she could live, there'd be really no issue.

The act of sustaining and the act of creating mass from the energy are one and the same, given that restoring the energy to Aether fully immediately recreates the rest of the planet on an atomic level, and without any energy to convert to mass to sustain Dark Aether, it reaches a point where there is no mass and the planet doesn’t exist (not just, in pieces, it ceases to exist)

You know we have a creation formula right? Metroid, again, isn't special, EMC requires a very specific formula and set of rules, unless the feat EXPLICITLY says as much, it will never be accepted. This is wiki rules, I don't even have to argue this, it just is.

Well if Samus is hypothetically scaled to Leviathan durability in the future, she would upscale the potency of the LoA in Prime 3 anyway because the Leviathan no-sold that.

Are we talking about Prime 3? No, we're talking about Prime 2.

Except they spend the energy all the time?

Gather, sustain, repeat.
This is, very, very, explicitly, not an instant process, acting like it is, is willful ignorance.

That’s, the whole point of the LoA? And yes, it’s conjecture, but it’s conjecture based on multiple pieces of provable evidence,

Yes, thanks for admitting it.
Conjecture, based on not even confirmed pieces of evidence, merely evidence that "might" be true.

When your point, is based upon even more points, that they themselves aren't even confirmed. Just stop, this isn't how this wiki works.

explain why U-Mos would hold back power to give to Samus when he’s trying to stop an incredibly powerful evil force that has control over the same amount of Aether power that the light side has, AND can use it to amp himself.

This very point, works under the assumption of U-Mos gives light to Samus to amp herself, no offense, but kinda putting your cart before the horse there ad, you need to prove that the light is actively amping here to begin with, which you haven't.
Second off, because they LITERALLY need that energy to live and they'll die?
Thirdly, because that evil entity LITERALLY needs that energy to live or he'll die?
And fourthly, because that entity is demonstrably and objectively not using it all anyway?

Yes he uses it, he evolved midway through the fight into a stronger mutated form that swaps between light and darkness power, and he directly shoots Samus with lasers from his eye (the same eye that is actually just a red orb, the same red orb that we see his version of the Light of Aether as just a few moments earlier if you watch the boss battle). So he is actively using energy from the LoA as a beam to eliminate Samus, multiple times.

Man, nobody said he isn't using it, he just isn't using all of it, which is an objective fact.

That’s literally not true, otherwise the planet would have died off years ago. We know that there was an energy crisis, and after building the energy controllers, there was no longer a crisis even though the same energy amount was required. The only logical explanation is the energy regenerating.

That or like, it's regulated (stated), used efficiently and not wastefully due to it's new regulation, and in a manner were they can always gather more (something we know they can and have done).
You are, again, assuming the most wanked scenario, leading to a conclusion, never said.
All while numerous alternatives with actual backing is ignored.

And? Still doesn’t change how the health packs restores the same amount no matter how durable the suit is.

We don't use game mechanics if they're literal game mechanics?
Notwithstanding that's the E-Fields but shrug

This is assuming the LoA is even being expended or that Samus would need to restore it, because she doesn’t,

Dude, you're arguing it's being used to AMP HER. Either it amped her and it was being expended in direct correlation to how much she was amped (extremely bad for beam attacks, because this would eat it up every attack) or tanking shit like Ing, which, you're also arguing scales in full for some reason aka one hit from him and oops all the LoA amping Samus gone.

and can immediately restore it to full by just going back and returning the energy to the controller.

WHEN. In what span of time between engaging Ing, killing him, escaping, fighting DS and then game over here's the planet's energy back in full lmao, would she ever ave time to replenish anything? Unless, of course, she didn't use any meaningful amount, if at all.

Even though that directly explains why the energy is going away or how the planet’s mass is kept in existence in a 1-1 ratio of energy loss-matter creation.

I said post a statement not more extrapolation.

Light Beam< Light Suit in dealing with Dark Aether anomalies, this is a fact.

tfw Light Suit Samus could have just tackled Ing to death

Yes, and to get it back U-Mos gives Samus a suit made of concentrated Light of Aether light

Literally not what he says.
He says it's energized by it (this was obvious, no, this is not scaling).
This, doesn't implicate a 1:1 amp, at best it's a power source she can tap into but they don't even say that, based on what they actually say, it seems to be means of protection against the elements.
Lastly, we can LITERALLY see the fact that the Energy Module is still full, whatever amount U-Mos gave her, was a drop in the ocean, we can flat out see that shit is still active, and hell, if ya scan it, im like, 95% sure it says it's full and running efficiently.

You kinda posted counter evidence to your claims, we 100% know she wasn't given a meaningful fraction of it.

I never said 1 second, I said it can regenerate, and that’s enough for Samus to just keep trying by putting the energy back in the controller to recharge, since she can already beat normal Ing.

You didn't need to say 1 second, but it'd have to be even quicker than that given you're arguing Ing and Samus use a relevant fraction of it.
Again, literally when? How in the hell is Samus doing that in back-to-back battles with dudes on par with her?

So then the Light Suit is also made of better material than normal suits, being the light of Aether.

That isn't even true, it's still a normal suit, just because the LoA was involved in it's creation, doesn't mean it is the Light of Aether, because it isn't, U-Mos even uses separate wording for them treating it as two different things.

Samus even demonstrated in the next game that she can beat the source of some great power even when holding a tiny fraction of it, by defeating Dark Samus amped by an entire origin planet of Phazon (log entry says she fused with AU that was symbiotically linked to the planet) despite only having a minuscule amount of Phazon herself.

Prime 3=Prime 2. Huge false equivalence at that. And hell, you're effectively explaining why that's PIS, stop while you're ahead.

So even if Samus did only have a fraction of the LoA that was barely notable, her taking on the Emperor Ing utilizing a full half of the Light makes sense from a story perspective.

Not only are you now giving evidence, assuming your dozens of extrapolated conjecture is true, that Samus fighting him at all, and winning, is PIS.
This ignores Ing is a prime example of them not using any relevant fraction.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't disagree with the comparison, but by the Mutated Emperor Ing phase, the Light of Aether has noticeably become significantly smaller. It seems to have recovered at the end.

• Before Emperor Ing
• First Phase
• Mutated Emperor Ing
• After Emperor Ing

Though it's a bit more complicated. The tech the Ing absorb is data / energy so its not an analogy that works in this specific circumstance (I would otherwise agree with you). Either way, we do see the Emperor Ing undergo the same transformations as the Ing Guardians when they upgrade Samus' abilities.

It can shrink. Specifically when being stored in something, say, a container. Which, well hell Samus does moments later. That isn't actually the LoA anyway but we'll get to that.
Why are you assuming it being smaller is due to him randomly using a tremendous fraction of it? This doesn't even make sense anyway.

Why was it perfectly fine, completely full phase 1. It goes into its shell. Then suddenly "oh yeah he used it all lmao", then he dies and it's back to normal?

That ain't how it works, you don't even have a energy module excuse, given he died, and didn't have one to begin with. So why did the energy come back according to your argument? It can't be naturally? That energy doesn't do that, solar, bio, geothermal, and so on, doesn't just regenerate. If you're arguing it can regen like JJ, there must be a stated reason for it, as what we know it to be, can't do so naturally.

And, before you say "it was used up to amp his final form"
Morphology: Emperor Ing Chrysalis
Regenerating Ing ruler.
Target's regen-shell is magnetically charged. Eleven weak points have been detected; target them with concussive blasts to shatter the regen-shell.
Logbook entry
The heavily damaged Emperor Ing has entered a regenerative state inside a durable healing shell. Tactical scans have detected eleven weak points on the magnetically charged shell: Spider Ball travel is possible on the shell surface. Damage the weak spots with explosives to crack the shell and expose the enemy within.
Temporary scan
Morphology: Mutated Emperor Ing
Altered ruler of the Ing Horde.
Further Phazon mutation of the Emperor Ing has occured. The creature seems to only take damage when its heart is Light or Dark. Find a way to change the heart to one of these colors.

We are told that Ing is simply regening (itself mind you, though the very fact the game uses this term, yet not for thing being stated to regen without evidence, is a red flag),
But even further, its new and improved form, is attributed to Phazon mutation, not draining LoA if that's what you meant, so that ain't gonna cut it either.

Though it's a bit more complicated. The tech the Ing absorb is data / energy so its not an analogy that works in this specific circumstance (I would otherwise agree with you). Either way, we do see the Emperor Ing undergo the same transformations as the Ing Guardians when they upgrade Samus' abilities.

We actually don't see him do the same, his mutation was due to Phazon, both his initial and final ones were directly stated to be due to that, and his 3rd, is simply stated to be a "regen-shell", whatever that is.
"Bioscans indicate that this is the eldest, strongest Ing in the Horde, the alpha and the omega. It has absorbed enormous amounts of Phazon energy into its body, mutating itself in the process. Apparently this power is not enough for the creature, as it is now siphoning energy from the final Energy Controller."
"Target's regen-shell is magnetically charged. Eleven weak points have been detected; target them with concussive blasts to shatter the regen-shell.
Logbook entry
The heavily damaged Emperor Ing has entered a regenerative state inside a durable healing shell. Tactical scans have detected eleven weak points on the magnetically charged shell: Spider Ball travel is possible on the shell surface. Damage the weak spots with explosives to crack the shell and expose the enemy within."
"Further Phazon mutation of the Emperor Ing has occured. The creature seems to only take damage when its heart is Light or Dark. Find a way to change the heart to one of these colors.
Logbook entry
Further exposure to Phazon has mutated the Emperor Ing."

I would also like to point out, the LoA within its "mouth" isn't the light of Aether,
"The creature seems to only take damage when its heart is Light or Dark. Find a way to change the heart to one of these colors."

It's its "heart". LoA being small isn't due to being drained, it's not even the LoA, it's his heart (Though the LoA does seem to be energizing its heart, that still circles back to it using an unknown amount, as well as it evidently not using it all given it still exists and is full post-fight).

I can accept LoA not being mass energy conversion, although I still think Samus should scale to a significant portion of it.

It'd be like 5-B at best man

 

[Agnaa]

Also the last point is just game mechanics.

Not that I'm aware of; I was calling it game mechanics because the collapse should have started after Samus left, not while she was there. (Emperor Ing also absorbed the energy with the module and the world didn't begin collapsing, so the countdown seems more likely to just be game mechanics).

I see no reasonable definition of "game mechanics" by which "a cutscene showing a character dying to an event after a countdown" is considered game mechanics because there shouldn't have been a countdown. The important part for scaling is the specifically scripted fail state, not the gameplay revolving around when it occurs. By having that as a scripted failure state, the developers are showing they explicitly believe her to be vulnerable to that.

Perhaps it's inconsistent with other feats, or nonsensical story-wise, but it's not a uniquely game-mechanicy thing, authors screw up stuff like that across all media.

(fyi, I don't have an interest in evaluating this, I just skimmed and the invocation of game mechanics caught my attention)

 

[JJSliderman]

Dark Samus wasn’t spat out, she was erased from existence along with the dimension considering she was just a bunch of particles at the time. If she was really spat out into space, then the Ing could have just left the dying dark Aether at any time, instead of all dying in the explosion.

The rest is just stuff that’s been going around in circles and frankly it’s very annoying to make these multi paragraph comment responses so, I’ll just say that I disagree Samus doesn’t scale to LoA (she definitely would) but can accept she doesn’t scale to mass energy conversion stuff.

 

[Chariot190]

Dark Samus wasn’t spat out, she was erased from existence along with the dimension considering she was just a bunch of particles at the time.

Man we are literally told what happened to her. We even know the exact time frame for how long it took her to heal, this specific feat has every detail explicitly noted.
Plus in your own words, how can she be EE'd but also be particles, ya can't be both.

If she was really spat out into space, then the Ing could have just left the dying dark Aether at any time, instead of all dying in the explosion.

No? Like at all, they can't even **** around in the light world without hosts 95% of the time. That's a plot point.
Completely ignoring the Ing ain't escaping with 8m.
Secondly, since when did every Ing have beyond atomic level regen?
Why would they be spat out as particles? She has the regen to survive, they, do not. They'd be dead.
also arent they intrinsically tied to Dark Aether anyway

The rest is just stuff that’s been going around in circles and frankly it’s very annoying to make these multi paragraph comment responses so, I’ll just say that I disagree Samus doesn’t scale to LoA (she definitely would) but can accept she doesn’t scale to mass energy conversion stuff.

That isn't how this works, you need to post actual hard evidence, not a maybe based off a maybe concluded from a possibility based on something that might be the case.
You've literally posted evidence showing she shouldn't.

 

[JJSliderman]

Man we are literally told what happened to her. We even know the exact time frame for how long it took her to heal, this specific feat has every detail explicitly noted.
Plus in your own words, how can she be EE'd but also be particles, ya can't be both.

No? Like at all, they can't even **** around in the light world without hosts 95% of the time. That's a plot point.
Completely ignoring the Ing ain't escaping with 8m.
Secondly, since when did every Ing have beyond atomic level regen?
Why would they be spat out as particles? She has the regen to survive, they, do not. They'd be dead.
also arent they intrinsically tied to Dark Aether anyway

The Ing are more than fast enough to escape the atmosphere in 8 minutes and can survive as dark wispy forms in the light world. Dark Samus somehow surviving the destruction of an entire dimension when she had started out the destruction as a bunch of scattered particles is absolutely absurd and has no backing, plus a planet sized dimension collapsing is different from a normal planet bust. It’s easier to argue that DS had gained the ability to regen from beyond atomic destruction, given that her regen had already advanced from low high to high by the time of her second fight, well before endgame, and her regen continued to improve in later games.

That isn't how this works, you need to post actual hard evidence, not a maybe based off a maybe concluded from a possibility based on something that might be the case.
You've literally posted evidence showing she shouldn't.

Evidence that the Luminoth energy crisis solution was just using it conservatively doesn’t exist and doesn’t make sense when the Luminoth somehow went from energy crisis to no problem after 50 years despite having the exact same needs for the energy.

Evidence that the Emperor wasn’t using the full amount of energy from the controller: supposedly worried for his planet, even though if he was uninterrupted he would have siphoned off the entire energy source, and we see in his final phase he siphoned off about half given how small the energy orb is compared to the start of the fight, showing he did absorb a significant chunk.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay but like, "it could be," "it might be," "it makes sense," and the like without hard evidence aren't arguments. They're headcanon...

 

[Chariot190]

The Ing are more than fast enough to escape the atmosphere in 8 minutes and can survive as dark wispy forms in the light world.

They literally aren't. And don't exactly have space travel either.

and can survive as dark wispy forms in the light world.

"They can survive by becoming nontangible entities that cant do much because they cant actually survive there"
Even that, is but a temporary solution.

Dark Samus somehow surviving the destruction of an entire dimension when she had started out the destruction as a bunch of scattered particles is absolutely absurd and has no backing

They like, literally say as much, this ain't even me guessing, there's actual hard statements.
Also her starting off as particles is good it means she's taking literally billions of times less energy as her surface is, well ya know...
ISL is a bitch.

plus a planet sized dimension collapsing is different from a normal planet bust.

That's exactly the issue, with ISL it'd be awful.
And worst part is, it collapsing is lower than if it was just busted.

It’s easier to argue that DS had gained the ability to regen from beyond atomic destruction,

What is up with you and guesswork? I don't want "well you can argue", I want actual proof. You can argue anything if you try hard enough, it doesn't make it right. Especially here given we're told what happened. There ain't nothing to argue.

given that her regen had already advanced from low high to high by the time of her second fight, well before endgame,

Man, we are told what happened. Every detail, even to how long it took.
There isn't anything to argue here, we know.

and her regen continued to improve in later games.

Her worst regen feat is literally in Prime 3.

Evidence that the Luminoth energy crisis solution was just using it conservatively doesn’t exist and doesn’t make sense when the Luminoth somehow went from energy crisis to no problem after 50 years despite having the exact same needs for the energy.

What? Like actually what? It's called the giant ******* meteor riddled with space aids followed by the giant ass alien eldritch invasion?
And what's up with you and ignoring half of what I said, and then acting as if that was the point?

Evidence that the Emperor wasn’t using the full amount of energy from the controller: supposedly worried for his planet, even though if he was uninterrupted he would have siphoned off the entire energy source,

They literally never say that, at any point, that he'd drink it all up in its totality. In fact, they state he would die protecting it if need be in his scan.

and we see in his final phase he siphoned off about half given how small the energy orb is compared to the start of the fight, showing he did absorb a significant chunk.

That is actual bullshit, that's his heart, not the Light of Aether as is. This stated by data log and scans.
In fact, it's shown he didn't absorb a noticeable chunk immediately after.

You also ignored several points. Do not strawman.

 

[Chariot190]

Btw I agree with op, I was waiting in case like, someone posted a statement or blatant evidence showing EMC, or that LS was empowered by the whole thing or whatever, one hard statement for each would be a done case. But given any has yet to be posted...

Yet all that's been shown was
1. Using LoA actively drains it, as shown when they used a chunk and it destabilized the planet (This does not happen here).
2. Samus' LS, is explicitly not empowered by half of Aether, in that very scene U-Mos uses some choice wording, but the energy module is still filled to the brim and the scan visor even makes note of it, aka, even if LS was amped by it, it's just an arbitrary fraction that doesn't matter. This ain't even up for debate, she explicitly doesn't have the majority.
3. Ing demonstrably doesn't use it all, given he's able to drain bits off whenever he wants, if he was using it all, there wouldn't be anything for him to drain constantly. And after he dies, Samus goes and picks it up, pretty much all there.
Additionally.
4. Samus evidently doesn't expend that shit for a dozen reasons.
5. She literally returns it all back proving she didn't use it.
plus others.
Yeah, slap me down for agree untill hard evidence is brought forth.

 

[Armorchompy]

I read through the arguments and unfortunately I'm not convinced by much of what the opposing side says. Apologies for not being there to make arguments, but alas, I was sleepin'

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have been trying to recover from the allergic reaction related stress combined with RL job also doubling down on that stress. And another thread like this was the last thing I needed. But anyway. I am probably not to give full details right away, but will try to keep things brief before I rest for the night.

I still agree with just about everything SomebodyData said and agree that Dark Samus example would be paradoxical to be treated as both a durability and a regeneration feat, but there is yet another thing to give a scaling base. That being the very Leviathan that crashed into the planet. The sheer force of the impact has basically split the planet in two, not just dividing the GBE of the planet into two parallel dimensions but on an atomic level and mentioning "Planetary energy". While it sounds vague on paper, but the "Atom splitting" part would still at minimum equate to energy required to atomize the planet. It would refer to the entire atomic fusion energy of the planet; which blunt forcing all atomic fusion energy out of an object is the minimal energy required for atomization level destruction standards.

Now as for "Mass-Energy Conversion" related stuff. I have not written up arguments yet. However, it is worth acknowledging that the LoA and Dark Aether's planetary energy are both used for Matter-Antimatter Blasts. So LoA can indeed commit Mass-Energy Conversion level energy density attacks. Antimatter does have an energy density of 89,875,517,874 MJ/kg or identical to the E = mc^2 formula. And that's also exactly what the Annihilator Beam is composed of. Which is in turn a building block for the Sonic Boom, the weapon that can literally Distort Time and Space.

Also, rereading the Luminoth's lore mentions something about Space-Time Anomalies caused by the Transdimensional Flux. Samus in her Light Suit still destroyed Dark Aether as mentioned by SD and used all of the "Planetary Energy" to restabilize Aether in its entirety. Which alone would require half energy required to atomize it which would be in tier 5 range minimum. But the Matter-Antimatter stuff implies strong arguments it's getting specific detail about Mass-Energy conversion. Which the release to stablize Aether back to it once was would still easily be the calculation. I'll save destruction of the body of space as well as alleged time for later though if the rumors someone mentioned about plans to make realms with own flows of time Low 2-C by default is true. But probably won't happen very soon though.

But better yet, the Leviathan crashing, splitting not only the entire mass, or the entire atoms, but splitting the "Planetary energy used to make pure Matter-Antimatter" weapons still stands. And the Leviathan still effected all of that in one crash with the Phazon warping it all on trans-spatial level. Dark Samus upscaling from that let alone the combined might of 3 of them in Prime 3 could also be a bigger window of opportunity.

 

[Armorchompy]

That being the very Leviathan that crashed into the planet. The sheer force of the impact has basically split the planet in two, not just dividing the GBE of the planet into two parallel dimensions but on an atomic level and mentioning "Planetary energy". While it sounds vague on paper, but the "Atom splitting" part would still at minimum equate to energy required to atomize the planet. It would refer to the entire atomic fusion energy of the planet; which blunt forcing all atomic fusion energy out of an object is the minimal energy required for atomization level destruction standards.

Rather than AP this is just dimensional hax ("Spatial disturbances appeared across the land. Objects went into a state of dimensional flux"), which would be required to create Dark Aether anyways. Besides, this was a unique chain reaction caused by the Phazon interfacing with Aether's unique mechanics, if it was just the "sheer force", then the same would have happened to Tallon IV and the Metroid Prime 3 planets.

Now as for "Mass-Energy Conversion" related stuff. I have not written up arguments yet. However, it is worth acknowledging that the LoA and Dark Aether's planetary energy are both used for Matter-Antimatter Blasts. So LoA can indeed commit Mass-Energy Conversion level energy density attacks. Antimatter does have an energy density of 89,875,517,874 MJ/kg or identical to the E = mc^2 formula. And that's also exactly what the Annihilator Beam is composed of. Which is in turn a building block for the Sonic Boom, the weapon that can literally Distort Time and Space.

This is actually a fair argument but Quadraxis isn't powered by the Light of Aether, it uses the Annihilator Beam you then get after defeating it, and that is never linked with the Light of Aether, it's just a Luminoth weapon.

Their portrayal is also pretty different from what that sort of thing would look like IRL, and Retro has a pretty bad track record with their sci-fi jargon actually lining up with what it means IRL. The Dark Beam, which makes up half of the Annihilator Beam (The "matter" and "antimatter" in question are just the light and dark beams), is simply made up of the Ing energy, which means they themselves or at least their attacks are made of anti-matter. And obviously, there's no massive release of energy whenever inhabitants of one Aether make contact with the other (or when the Light/Dark Beam is shot in the opposite environment), it just poisons them overtime (which is not a property of real anti-matter). I think Retro was definitely trying to make Dark Aether work akin to antimatter in a thematic sense but it's not 1 to 1 with the IRL workings of it.

Finally, if the Light of Aether was capable of mass-energy conversion, it still wouldn't be what actually happens to Dark Aether. After all, the Light of Aether and Dark/Light Aether must both exist at the same time, as the Light sustains them- they're not immediately sucked up into nothingness when Samus absorbs the light, they just begin to collapse because it's vital to their existence. That isn't what would happen if the Light was the energy conversion of their mass.

Also, rereading the Luminoth's lore mentions something about Space-Time Anomalies caused by the Transdimensional Flux. Samus in her Light Suit still destroyed Dark Aether as mentioned by SD and used all of the "Planetary Energy" to restabilize Aether in its entirety. Which alone would require half energy required to atomize it which would be in tier 5 range minimum

No, she didn't. Her taking in the Light of Aether caused the collapse of Dark Aether, and she simply transferred it back to Light Aether, she never actually wielded this energy in any combat-applicable way.

 

[JJSliderman]

They literally aren't. And don't exactly have space travel either.

Yes, the faster than light Ing can’t travel 100 miles upward in 8 minutes, okay.

"They can survive by becoming nontangible entities that cant do much because they cant actually survive there"
Even that, is but a temporary solution.

It’s still a solution and would be better than immediately dying.

They like, literally say as much, this ain't even me guessing, there's actual hard statements.
Also her starting off as particles is good it means she's taking literally billions of times less energy as her surface is, well ya know...
ISL is a bitch.

The only statement is that particles floated into space, which makes zero sense because Dark Samus was in an entire separate dimension that requires dimensional travel to get to there and away. Dark Samus had no capacity to dimension travel at that point, so there’s no reason her particles would just get into Light Aether by tanking the destruction of Dark Aether.

******* meteor riddled with space aids followed by the giant ass alien eldritch invasion?
And what's up with you and ignoring half of what I said, and then acting as if that was the point?

The meteor doesn’t explain why Aether could survive with an 1/8 of its planetary energy for 50 years, in fact you already said that it’s comprised of geothermal and solar and bio energy, these are renewable resources, so the energy controllers can restock it.

They literally never say that, at any point, that he'd drink it all up in its totality. In fact, they state he would die protecting it if need be in his scan.

Yeah, and him absorbing it would count as protecting it because it’s inside him.

That is actual bullshit, that's his heart, not the Light of Aether as is. This stated by data log and scans.
In fact, it's shown he didn't absorb a noticeable chunk immediately after.

Because he was defeated and the energy he absorbed was shunted out with his death. And also, it’s an energy controller he was absorbing, which regenerate energy.

 

[Deagonx]

1. Let's assume that the destruction of Dark Aether is Low 4-C. Realistically, Dark Samus would only be exposed to a small portion of its destruction, because of inverse square law- Dark Samus' size is very tiny compared to the entire planet, across which the energy is spread.
2. Even if that wasn't the case, surviving the Mass-energy conversion of Dark Aether cannot possibly expose her to Low 4-C energies, given that those energies were spent taken by Samus and brought to Light Aether. Hard to tank something if it's not there. All the survived was the (probably untierable) collapse of Dark Aether.
3. It's straight-up stated that Dark Samus survived the destruction of Dark Aether because her particles floated into space, and she regenerated from that (Source).
4. Finally, if Samus does not escape in time, she is killed by the destruction of Dark Aether, despite being at least comparable to Dark Samus at this point.

Conclusion: There was no Low 4-C destruction for Dark Samus to tank, and if there was, she still didn't tank it.

Sound.

1. The Energy Transfer Module is never stated, hinted or implied to empower Samus' equipment. This is a complete fabrication- to the point that it's difficult to me to "prove" that it isn't correct, given that there's just no reason it would even be assumed. The only things it allows her to do are transfer the Light of Aether, and become immune to the Ing's possession.
2. If Samus actually did use that energy to attack or power her suit, it would be wasted, and that is the one thing she cannot afford to do- the Luminoth's survival hinges on her bringing it back to them.
3. Even if we assume that Samus is capable and willing to wield the Light in combat anyways, we know for sure that she never uses any relevant portion of it- because then, it would no longer be in her possession, and simply disperse away. Even if she just expended 1% of her Light of Aether with every shot, she would quickly run out of all of it, which she clearly does not.

Yeah that all makes perfect sense.

Emperor Ing's profile claims that it "Absorbed Dark Aether's half of the Light of Aether, putting it at half of the energy produced in Dark Aether's destruction, which it actively uses even in its weaker forms". The base statement is correct: Emperor Ing is straight-up stated to siphon energy from the Energy Controller.

1. The issue with this is the same as the issue with Samus' scaling to the Light of Aether: If it actually expended a significant portion of the energy in combat, then it would no longer be there for Samus to grab afterwards.
2. And keep in mind, Emperor Ing is fighting to protect this Light, it would make no sense for it to consume so much of it, considering it is aware that it would mean the destruction of Dark Aether.
3. Even if you don't believe in the above, there's a simpler issue- even in a vacuum, there's absolutely no reason to assume that Emperor Ing did absorb all or a majority of the Light of Aether, or that it even can do it. No statement implies it is capable of that, and the Logbook even states that absorbing what energy it does take is an overtime thing for it. [Important to note, most of the same reasoning also applies for Samus herself].

Agreed.

It could not possibly be the energy conversion of half of Aether's mass, because it exists at the same time as all of that mass.

Yeah. It's a bit hard to follow but I have to agree with this.

The World Warped, plus the fact that the energy is continuously used to sustain the planet, so obviously it would have to regenerate in order to keep doing that.

This logbook doesn't say anything like that. Also, the fact that the Light and Dark Aether are repeatedly described as having "half" of the planet's energy suggests that it doesn't simply regenerate.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yes, the faster than light Ing can’t travel 100 miles upward in 8 minutes, okay.

They're just FTL in combat speed, not movement speed. In fact the only Ing that can fly can barely do so by floating, and there's no reason to believe they're able to do so without an atmosphere- no IRL creature is capable of flying beyond a certain altitude.

It’s still a solution and would be better than immediately dying.

We see them survive unprotected for literal seconds, this is just a random assumption that they could or would do it.

The only statement is that particles floated into space, which makes zero sense because Dark Samus was in an entire separate dimension that requires dimensional travel to get to there and away. Dark Samus had no capacity to dimension travel at that point, so there’s no reason her particles would just get into Light Aether by tanking the destruction of Dark Aether.

We have no clue how Dark Aether interfaces with the space around it- we know the pocket dimension is localized to the planet, but we don't know how trying to physically exit it works- for all we know it just pops you back into normal space. I mean, it's literally what the artbook says happened, for starters.

The meteor doesn’t explain why Aether could survive with an 1/8 of its planetary energy for 50 years, in fact you already said that it’s comprised of geothermal and solar and bio energy, these are renewable resources, so the energy controllers can restock it.

It didn't. It survived with 1/2 for 50 years, and near the end of that most of it was taken by the Ing. And at that point we're literally told by the Space Pirates that it's not going to last long in that condition. And even then it's not true that it's just 1/8 of the energy, the Temple Grounds one U-Mos guards is the main one, the others are lesser ones that presumably hold less energy than it does. So it's only "vaguely less than 1/2".

Because he was defeated and the energy he absorbed was shunted out with his death. And also, it’s an energy controller he was absorbing, which regenerate energy.

No they don't. The entire crux of the situation is that both the Luminoth and Ing need to risk their lives to steal light from one another, do you think they'd do that if they could regenerate all the energy they were missing in seconds?

 

[JJSliderman]

They're just FTL in combat speed, not movement speed. In fact the only Ing that can fly can barely do so by floating, and there's no reason to believe they're able to do so without an atmosphere- no IRL creature is capable of flying beyond a certain altitude.

Then why don’t all the Ing just hop to another dimension and possess random geemers or shriekbats, its at least a temporary survival option.

We have no clue how Dark Aether interfaces with the space around it- we know the pocket dimension is localized to the planet, but we don't know how trying to physically exit it works- for all we know it just pops you back into normal space. I mean, it's literally what the artbook says happened, for starters.

If that’s the case and you can just enter and exit Dark Aether from normal space, why does Samus need specialized portals at all? Why does Dark Samus need them, if she can just enter Dark Aether from the atmosphere supposedly? It doesn’t add up.

It didn't. It survived with 1/2 for 50 years, and near the end of that most of it was taken by the Ing. And at that point we're literally told by the Space Pirates that it's not going to last long in that condition. And even then it's not true that it's just 1/8 of the energy, the Temple Grounds one U-Mos guards is the main one, the others are lesser ones that presumably hold less energy than it does. So it's only "vaguely less than 1/2".

Fine, vague < 1/2. Still, bio and geothermal energy are renewable resources, they still act as some explanation of restoring energy supply.

No they don't. The entire crux is that both the Luminoth and Ing need to risk their lives to steal light from one another, do you think they'd do that if they could regenerate all the energy they were missing in seconds?

Well even if the energy isn’t self-regenerating, it obviously has to be pulling new energy in from some source, if the planet has the exact same energy supply from the very beginning of Luminoth lore to the present day game events, the energy would have already run out because they were in an energy crisis over 50 years ago.

 

[Armorchompy]

Then why don’t all the Ing just hop to another dimension and possess random geemers or shriekbats, its at least a temporary survival option.

I think you've lost the plot of your argument a bit. They have 8 minutes before the planet collapses, they would 100% be capable of doing that in either situation. The fact that they could and don't doesn't really mean anything either way.

If that’s the case and you can just enter and exit Dark Aether from normal space, why does Samus need specialized portals at all? Why does Dark Samus need them, if she can just enter Dark Aether from the atmosphere supposedly? It doesn’t add up.

Never said you can enter it, just said you can exit it. It wouldn't be our default assumption that that's how it works, but we're literally shown that it is, so like, why be skeptical of that.

Still, bio and geothermal energy are renewable resources, they still act as some explanation of restoring energy supply.

Well even if the energy isn’t self-regenerating, it obviously has to be pulling new energy in from some source, if the planet has the exact same energy supply from the very beginning of Luminoth lore to the present day game events, the energy would have already run out because they were in an energy crisis over 50 years ago.

Overtime? Yeah, I don't think it's impossible that they can restore some of the Light of Aether (Although I will note, they've definitely been running on fumes ever since the Leviathan's impact, they make it clear that they needed to take the Light back from DA, so even just losing half of it causes enough damage that they can't hope to naturally recover from that). But the argument I was replying to was that it was regenerated within the seconds after Emperor Ing's death, which I don't think is likely.

 

[Deagonx]

Slow cumulative regeneration of the energy isn't really a counter argument to the issues presented in the OP. We know some of the energy is solar and geothermal so probably yes there is some small global sense of gathering energy but the plot line fails to make sense if Samus is using any significant portion of it through her attacks (which is already an assumption), because if it regenerated that quickly -- again -- the basic premise of the plot falls apart.

This is in addition to the fact that we cannot logically view the light as constituting an EMC quantity of the entire planet.

 

[Chariot190]

Yes, the faster than light Ing can’t travel 100 miles upward in 8 minutes, okay.

Movement=/=Combat.

It’s still a solution and would be better than immediately dying.

I mean, they attempted to, they failed, ya see them trying to escape the portal.

The only statement is that particles floated into space, which makes zero sense because Dark Samus was in an entire separate dimension that requires dimensional travel to get to there and away.

Dog, that is ONE statement, of like, over a dozen.
And no, dimension bye bye, she just kinda ended back up in reality due to it no longer being a thing, it is what it is, that's simply what happened.

Dark Samus had no capacity to dimension travel at that point, so there’s no reason her particles would just get into Light Aether by tanking the destruction of Dark Aether.

Hey man I ain't Retro, like it or not, post destruction, her very remnants got spat out.

Hell going by your argument, she'd have been stuck there forever, or didn't tank it at all.

The meteor doesn’t explain why Aether could survive with an 1/8 of its planetary energy for 50 years, in fact you already said that it’s comprised of geothermal and solar and bio energy, these are renewable resources, so the energy controllers can restock it.

Uh, exactly? But, that takes time, not 5 seconds. Which, is what you have been arguing.
Hell, tbh sounds like it'd take 50 years to restock the optimal amount of energy, not the mere seconds to minutes you keep trying to argue.

Yeah, and him absorbing it would count as protecting it because it’s inside him.

No it wouldn't? You're arguing he's using the whole thing, he'd be actively going against his stated motive.

Because he was defeated and the energy he absorbed was shunted out with his death. And also, it’s an energy controller he was absorbing, which regenerate energy.

It literally can't. State it can regenerate energy once more without posting a statement and I will ask to have this become staff only.

 

[JJSliderman]

Never said you can enter it, just said you can exit it. It wouldn't be our default assumption that you could do that, but we're literally told that you can, so like, why be skeptical of that.

All we have is the statement Dark Samus’ particles floated into space, that’s hardly exhaustive proof. Especially when it contradicts what the game established up to that point that portals were required.

I mean, they attempted to, they failed, ya see them trying to escape the portal.

The Ing can do their stuff without specialized portals.

Dog, that is ONE statement, of like, over a dozen.
And no, dimension bye bye, she just kinda ended back up in reality due to it no longer being a thing, it is what it is, that's simply what happened.

That just sounds like she either tanked it or regenerated after her particles were destroyed, which makes more sense when the game establishes that either portals or the Darkburst are required to enter the dark dimension, multiple times.

Uh, exactly? But, that takes time, not 5 seconds. Which, is what you have been arguing.
Hell, tbh sounds like it'd take 50 years to restock the optimal amount of energy, not the mere seconds to minutes you keep trying to argue.

As long as it can regenerate in any capacity, it shouldn’t matter how much energy the Emperor or Dark Aether absorbed, as long as they have zero and Light Aether has it all, day saved.

No it wouldn't? You're arguing he's using the whole thing, he'd be actively going against his stated motive.

His motive is to protect his planet from invaders, same argument as on the flip side. As long as there’s at least some energy left and the Emperor wins, he can start the process of collecting planetary energy over again and bring the status back to BoG, then just wait for the energy to slowly charge up again over decades.

Overtime? Yeah, I don't think it's impossible that they can restore some of the Light of Aether (Although I will note, they've definitely been running on fumes ever since the Leviathan's impact, they make it clear that they needed to take the Light back from DA). But the argument I was replying to was that it was regenerated within the seconds after Emperor Ing's death, which I don't think is likely.

If the light can slowly regenerate, then the amount of light taken back from Dark Aether doesn’t matter, as long as it’s nonzero. Dark Aether has no light and thus dies, light Aether has light and thus is sustainable, they can farm energy for the next few centuries until they get back to their original state.

Slow cumulative regeneration of the energy isn't really a counter argument to the issues presented in the OP. We know some of the energy is solar and geothermal so probably yes there is some small global sense of gathering energy but the plot line fails to make sense if Samus is using any significant portion of it through her attacks (which is already an assumption), because if it regenerated that quickly -- again -- the basic premise of the plot falls apart.

The Emperor is definitely using the Light of Aether to directly attack Samus in the boss fight, we see the red energy constituting the light of Aether being used to shoot lasers at Samus. Moreover, the existence of the light suit already shows that the Luminoth are willing to trade away their energy temporarily if it means solving the overall crisis, and Samus returns the suit and energy at the end of the game after seemingly wasting a lot of the light energy given to her in the final battles. So, the amount of energy given to her is still being wasted in order to give Samus better odds of winning, it would make sense that Samus gets an amount comparable to the Emperor’s light supply to create a more even matchup

 

[Armorchompy]

All we have is the statement Dark Samus’ particles floated into space, that’s hardly exhaustive proof. Especially when it contradicts what the game established up to that point that portals were required.

Ok, so? We're literally told that's what happened, it's stupid to insist that it didn't. Even if it's a contradiction, who cares? It happened.

If the light can slowly regenerate, then the amount of light taken back from Dark Aether doesn’t matter, as long as it’s nonzero. Dark Aether has no light and thus dies, light Aether has light and thus is sustainable, they can farm energy for the next few centuries until they get back to their original state.

It's pretty clear that her bringing it back to the Luminoth is necessary for their survival, otherwise she wouldn't need to bother doing that. Again, the Luminoth were desperate to get the Light back even when they were losing the war, to the point that they sent suicide missions into the Dark World, clearly they wouldn't do that if they could do without. Aether is dying during the events of MP2, and we don't know for sure that just getting back the Agon/Torvus/Sanctuary energy is enough to undo that (it in fact seems to just affect the area around it, and not the entire planet)

Even if that wasn't the case you're still ignoring the simple issue of "we don't know that emp ing is capable of consuming and absorbing this much energy" so positing that it wouldn't be impossible that he did lore-wise means very little.

The Emperor is definitely using the Light of Aether to directly attack Samus in the boss fight, we see the red energy constituting the light of Aether being used to shoot lasers at Samus.

We literally know he's using some of the energy, that is not in question (although I wouldn't consider the red energy means much in that sense), that does not prove any significant amount of it is. We don't know that he did, we have reason to believe he didn't, and we don't have reason to think he even could.

Moreover, the existence of the light suit already shows that the Luminoth are willing to trade away their energy temporarily if it means solving the overall crisis, and Samus returns the suit and energy at the end of the game after seemingly wasting a lot of the light energy given to her in the final battles. So, the amount of energy given to her is still being wasted in order to give Samus better odds of winning, it would make sense that Samus gets an amount comparable to the Emperor’s light supply to create a more even matchup

So:

1. You're assuming that the Luminoth were willing to put the LoA inside the Light Suit
2. You're assuming that the Luminoth were capable of powering the Light Suit using the LoA
3. You're assuming that the Luminoth were capable of putting a significant percentage of the LoA into the Light Suit
4. You're assuming that Samus is capable of drawing upon a significant percentage of the LoA given to her with each of her attacks
5. You're assuming that the power of her attacks is 1:1 with the energy consumed by them.

And you're claiming all of this should be treated as factual and put on the profiles, when it is just a bunch of conjecture.

 

[Chariot190]

If that’s the case and you can just enter and exit Dark Aether from normal space, why does Samus need specialized portals at all? Why does Dark Samus need them, if she can just enter Dark Aether from the atmosphere supposedly? It doesn’t add up.

How? Like, do you know she's capable of? She can't even do that, hell her ass is stuck on ground, that's the plot. Tho nobody is arguing that's how it'd work.

Fine, vague < 1/2. Still, bio and geothermal energy are renewable resources, they still act as some explanation of restoring energy supply.

Which would take time, evidently. Not the literal seconds you keep arguing Samus and Ing do.

Also, reminder, Emperor Ing canonically has a limit to what he can draw and utilize at a given time. You canonically kill him by overloading his heart causing it to reach critical mass. As stated in scan viz.

 

[JJSliderman]

Ok, so? We're literally told that's what happened, it's stupid to insist that it didn't. Even if it's a contradiction, who cares? It happened.

Because all we have is that Dark Samus’s particles floated into the atmosphere. Everything between the final fight and that secret ending is an unknown, it’s entirely possible Dark Samus’s particles were destroyed by a dimensional existence erasure but they regenerated and then floated up, or they tanked the collapse and then floated up, instead of them just floating up and completely escaping any damage the planet collapse did, which would fit more with how portals were the only way to escape the dark dimension

How? Like, do you know she's capable of? She can't even do that, hell her ass is stuck on ground, that's the plot. Tho nobody is arguing that's how it'd work.

She can short range teleport, that’s how she got to Aether to begin with.

Which would take time, evidently. Not the literal seconds you keep arguing Samus and Ing do.

Also, reminder, Emperor Ing canonically has a limit to what he can draw and utilize at a given time. You canonically kill him by overloading his heart causing it to reach critical mass. As stated in scan viz.

This limit is nebulous and undefined, we aren’t led to believe said limit is below the light of Aether. Plus, it’s shooting missiles into someone’s heart, that would overload anyone in enough time.

It's pretty clear that her bringing it back to the Luminoth is necessary for their survival, otherwise she wouldn't need to bother doing that. Again, the Luminoth were desperate to get the Light back even when they were losing the war, to the point that they sent suicide missions into the Dark World, clearly they wouldn't do that if they could do without. Aether is dying during the events of MP2, and we don't know for sure that just getting back the Agon/Torvus/Sanctuary energy is enough to undo that (it in fact seems to just affect the area around it, and not the entire planet)

She’s still bringing back the light from Dark to Light Aether, and thus still accomplishing the overall objective, if she brings back any amount of light from the Emperor Ing battle to Light Aether. Light Aether has all the light, and thus is stabilized.

Even if that wasn't the case you're still ignoring the simple issue of "we don't know that emp ing is capable of consuming and absorbing this much energy" so positing that it wouldn't be impossible that he did lore-wise means very little.

The first part of the fight has Emperor Ing redirect the light of Aether directly into Samus as an attack, it’s not contingent on him absorbing it. The log entry doesn’t establish a defined limit on when he would stop absorbing light of Aether, so if Samus didn’t interrupt him the game leads you to believe there is no limit and he’s just gonna keep sucking.

So:

1. You're assuming that the Luminoth were willing to put the LoA inside the Light Suit
2. You're assuming that the Luminoth were capable of powering the Light Suit using the LoA
3. You're assuming that the Luminoth were capable of putting a significant percentage of the LoA into the Light Suit
4. You're assuming that Samus is capable of drawing upon a significant percentage of the LoA given to her with each of her attacks
5. You're assuming that the power of her attacks is 1:1 with the energy consumed by them.

And you're claiming all of this should be treated as factual and put on the profiles, when it is just a bunch of conjecture.

The Luminoth did insert LoA into the suit via U-Mos’ quote, the suit was “energized” by it (which is another way of saying “powered”), the energy controllers are designed to regulate the spread of planetary energy to “wherever it’s needed” (via the Light of Aether Luminoth lore) so they can control where the light is distributed, her portion of the LoA was capable of matching Emperor Ing’s vaguely less than half portion of the light so she can draw out significant amounts.

 

[Armorchompy]

This limit is nebulous and undefined, we aren’t led to believe said limit is below the light of Aether. Plus, it’s shooting missiles into someone’s heart, that would overload anyone in enough time.

We aren't led to believe they're above either???? You're just making random claims. And also if you're claiming Samus is equally empowered by her half of the Light of Aether, we know for sure that her attacks are going to be dealing only a fraction of that power each, and are still able to overload it, so by your claims it's provably below.

She’s still bringing back the light from Dark to Light Aether, and thus still accomplishing the overall objective, if she brings back any amount of light from the Emperor Ing battle to Light Aether. Light Aether has all the light, and thus is stabilized.

That's not how it works- Aether is in danger of destruction regardless of DA's state, they built the controllers to stop the Light from fading well before the Leviathan ever struck the planet. DA being destroyed but too much of the Light being lost is death for them.

The first part of the fight has Emperor Ing redirect the light of Aether directly into Samus as an attack, it’s not contingent on him absorbing it.

Ok, prove that's a relevant percentage of the Light. Which you cannot, especially because that would mean he'd eventually be losing all of it.

The log entry doesn’t establish a defined limit on when he would stop absorbing light of Aether, so if Samus didn’t interrupt him the game leads you to believe there is no limit and he’s just gonna keep sucking.

NLF. And also he was stopped.

The Luminoth did insert LoA into the suit via U-Mos’ quote, the suit was “energized” by it (which is another way of saying “powered”), the energy controllers are designed to regulate the spread of planetary energy to “wherever it’s needed” (via the Light of Aether Luminoth lore) so they can control where the light is distributed, her portion of the LoA was capable of matching Emperor Ing’s vaguely less than half portion of the light so she can draw out significant amounts.

Being able to control the light doesn't mean they're able to 100% effectively power a suit of alien technology with such a massive amount of it, and you have no proof that Emperor Ing was fully empowered by all of his either (or that Samus needs an equal amount of Light to match him...), and you didn't even address

 

[JJSliderman]

Would Hypermode Samus not just scale to LoA by Prime 3 anyway.

Beats Dark Samus who is amplified by fusing with Phaaze through fusing with Aurora Unit, Phaaze is the origin of all leviathan seeds and should be as durable as them, leviathan seed no sells LoA.

 

[Chariot190]

Because all we have is that Dark Samus’s particles floated into the atmosphere.

Dog, we have like, a whole extra game filled with tidbits.

Everything between the final fight and that secret ending is an unknown,

It isn't. We see that shit fade away seconds after.

it’s entirely possible Dark Samus’s particles were destroyed by a dimensional existence erasure but they regenerated and then floated up,

"possible"
For ONE post, don't rely on conjecture.

or they tanked the collapse and then floated up,

This is what happened. But, the tanking a 5-B collapse at best, as particles, ain't grounds for scaling. You could tank a ICBM too if ya had her type of regen, it would not make you like 8-B.

instead of them just floating up and completely escaping any damage the planet collapse did,

Nobody is saying she wasn't there when it collapsed?

which would fit more with how portals were the only way to escape the dark dimension

And then the dark dimension ceased to be.

She can short range teleport, that’s how she got to Aether to begin with.

Uh, what? That isn't interdimensional lad.
And why are you acting like this is even a comparable case, she got spat out when DA ceased to be.

This limit is nebulous and undefined, we aren’t led to believe said limit is below the light of Aether.

It doesn't matter. He has a limit. We know that limit was overcome with random pew pew shots far below LoA.
And we know his ass didn't use all of LoA.

You simply don't have an argument here.

Plus, it’s shooting missiles into someone’s heart, that would overload anyone in enough time.

Yeah a weird abstract heart, stated to reach critical mass by overloading its threshold.

Stuff you explicitly don't want to be stated because it ruins your argument.

She’s still bringing back the light from Dark to Light Aether, and thus still accomplishing the overall objective, if she brings back any amount of light from the Emperor Ing battle to Light Aether. Light Aether has all the light, and thus is stabilized.

What the ****

The first part of the fight has Emperor Ing redirect the light of Aether directly into Samus as an attack, it’s not contingent on him absorbing it.

Reminder that doing that actively causes the amount used to be permanent, well, used, because it was used. As confirmed against the Levi.
The fact he does that, and it's still like all there, confirms, well, it ain't much.

The log entry doesn’t establish a defined limit on when he would stop absorbing light of Aether,

When it'd begin putting shit at risk? Given we're told he would rather die than have that happen?

so if Samus didn’t interrupt him the game leads you to believe there is no limit and he’s just gonna keep sucking.

Literally told he would rather die.

The Luminoth did insert LoA into the suit via U-Mos’ quote, the suit was “energized” by it (which is another way of saying “powered”),

No, he didn't, you're twisting wording. What that entails is res protection.
Secondly we know he didn't use it all because it's LITERALLY BEHIND HIM, and if ya scan it, it says it's like all there still.

the energy controllers are designed to regulate the spread of planetary energy to “wherever it’s needed” (via the Light of Aether Luminoth lore) so they can control where the light is distributed,

Yes, which if ya scan it after the fact, basically says she didn't get much.

her portion of the LoA was capable of matching Emperor Ing’s vaguely less than half portion of the light so she can draw out significant amounts.

Her portion, which she isn't using because it'd be expended every attack, tank, and more, could match him, who was using evidently a drop in the ocean of its full amount given the fact he can fire off like 500 attacks with it, suck it nonstop and go back for more, and in the end it's still effectively all there, and because he'd rather die than it all be gone and will die protecting it, hard stated.

Your arguments self sabotage.

 

[Chariot190]

Would Hypermode Samus not just scale to LoA by Prime 3 anyway.

Beats Dark Samus who is amplified by fusing with Phaaze through fusing with Aurora Unit, Phaaze is the origin of all leviathan seeds and should be as durable as them, leviathan seed no sells LoA.

Hypermode might have shit going for her, hell she def has some hype statements, but, this CRT is Prime 2, not Prime 3.
This quite literally doesn't matter.

 

[JJSliderman]

If the objective is completely deleting all scaling to LoA I’d argue Prime 3 is definitely relevant.

 

[Chariot190]

All this CRT proposes is that, LoA ain't 4-C, and Light Suit/Ing/Echoes DS do not scale to it.

If Prime 3 says "yeah man DS like, ******* eclipses it" then damn cool. Tbh, the very scan with LoA being used as a super weapon against a Levi and it failing might be relevant, but that's for later, not now.

 

[Dalesean027]

Armor and chariot make sense to me here

 

[Deagonx]

The Emperor is definitely using the Light of Aether to directly attack Samus in the boss fight, we see the red energy constituting the light of Aether being used to shoot lasers at Samus. Moreover, the existence of the light suit already shows that the Luminoth are willing to trade away their energy temporarily if it means solving the overall crisis, and Samus returns the suit and energy at the end of the game after seemingly wasting a lot of the light energy given to her in the final battles. So, the amount of energy given to her is still being wasted in order to give Samus better odds of winning, it would make sense that Samus gets an amount comparable to the Emperor’s light supply to create a more even matchup

I'm going to try and circumvent what I think would ultimately be a large and futile argument about the dynamics you're describing and condense it as such: Your proposal could be valid, but there are potential issues. However: Even if all of what you said was true, our complete inability to determine how much of this energy source is being used for any given attack (and our broader inability to determine the "full power" of the energy source given the EMC muddiness) means that it doesn't matter. No one can scale to anything because it's completely indeterminate. In the absolute best case scenario we would be scaling Samus to an relatively small unknown fraction of a power source that is some unknown fraction of a planet's total energy.

 

[JJSliderman]

It isn't. We see that shit fade away seconds after.

"possible"
For ONE post, don't rely on conjecture.

Phazon can affect and destroy the soul and mind based on Chozo lore from the first game, Samus overloaded Dark Samus with Phazon, she collapses into particles and dissipates inside a dimension that was immediately erased from existence. By all accounts she was destroyed on every level barring conceptual.

This is what happened. But, the tanking a 5-B collapse at best, as particles, ain't grounds for scaling. You could tank a ICBM too if ya had her type of regen, it would not make you like 8-B.

If her particles survived an entire dimension (which is more than just Dark Aether, seeing as the Darkburst exists and transfers you to a separate dark space) collapsing, and Samus in her Varia suit already has scaling to planet busters like Gorea, Dark Samus should be able tank 5-B.

Nobody is saying she wasn't there when it collapsed?

And then the dark dimension ceased to be.

Part of the argument against this feat being legit was that Dark Samus “floated up into space”, which happened before the dark dimension imploded, implying she escaped it. Maybe I misunderstood the intent.

Uh, what? That isn't interdimensional lad.
And why are you acting like this is even a comparable case, she got spat out when DA ceased to be.

The debunk side just argued that you can escape Dark Aether by just traveling upwards within Dark Aether itself, something the short range teleport can perform.

It doesn't matter. He has a limit. We know that limit was overcome with random pew pew shots far below LoA.
And we know his ass didn't use all of LoA.

You simply don't have an argument here.

If his limit is half the LoA, then overloading him with more energy would be over his limit. Him not using all of the energy at his disposal against Samus when she’s trying to kill him and he’s the last bastion of his race doesn’t make sense if the energy can eventually regenerate, and even if it couldn’t this is a do or die scenario.

Yeah a weird abstract heart, stated to reach critical mass by overloading its threshold.

That’s like every heart ever.

What the ****

The only thing the game says is that Samus needs to get the LoA away from Dark Aether and onto LA, never specified how much of it is needed in percentages from the original amount. Samus can accomplish that task even if the emperor uses up some of the energy.

Reminder that doing that actively causes the amount used to be permanent, well, used, because it was used. As confirmed against the Levi.
The fact he does that, and it's still like all there, confirms, well, it ain't much.

It obviously wasn’t permanently lost because the planet is treated as not weakened by the end of the game, despite having used that energy and making the planet weak over 50 years ago.

When it'd begin putting shit at risk? Given we're told he would rather die than have that happen?

Literally told he would rather die.

Yeah, we’re never given a defined point when Dark Aether would be about to die in terms of having limited energy, so it would probably just be whatever amount was on Light Aether at the start of the game (like << half)

No, he didn't, you're twisting wording. What that entails is res protection.
Secondly we know he didn't use it all because it's LITERALLY BEHIND HIM, and if ya scan it, it says it's like all there still.

Yeah it’s full, likely cuz the suit was sitting in there for years and years so the controllers didn’t give it their energy in that precise moment.

Her portion, which she isn't using because it'd be expended every attack, tank, and more, could match him, who was using evidently a drop in the ocean of its full amount given the fact he can fire off like 500 attacks with it, suck it nonstop and go back for more, and in the end it's still effectively all there, and because he'd rather die than it all be gone and will die protecting it, hard stated.

Your arguments self sabotage.

Characters being able to spam off 500 attacks using their power source at “X” level is a common thing in fiction, Metroid isn’t special in that regard. “Samus shouldn’t be able to shoot infinite planet level beam shots, that doesn’t make sense”

 

[JJSliderman]

If the objective is completely deleting all scaling to LoA I’d argue Prime 3 is definitely relevant.

That and this statement that it would be impossible to counter Dark Samus without the power of Hypermode

 

[Chariot190]

Phazon can affect and destroy the soul and mind based on Chozo lore from the first game,

And? That means nothing here, we know that didn't happen.
Phazon can do a fucktillion things. Did it give Dark Samus a schizophrenic episode too?

Samus overloaded Dark Samus with Phazon, she collapses into particles and dissipates inside a dimension that was immediately erased from existence.

And her particles, are not the dimension. Her particles (aka, she still had form), tanked the destruction.
And that's that.

By all accounts she was destroyed on every level barring conceptual.

Literally made up jargon given we're told otherwise.

If her particles survived an entire dimension (which is more than just Dark Aether, seeing as the Darkburst exists and transfers you to a separate dark space) collapsing,

Yes, it'd be a 5-B dura feat, she doesnt scale to because she's particles and ISL go brrr
The last bit, you made up, we're never told Dark Burst and DA is the same, it evidently isn't either given it can be used in DA

and Samus in her Varia suit already has scaling to planet busters like Gorea, Dark Samus should be able tank 5-B.

So? Just because she has 5-B scaling, doesn't make this particular 5-B feat legit?

Part of the argument against this feat being legit was that Dark Samus “floated up into space”, which happened before the dark dimension imploded, implying she escaped it. Maybe I misunderstood the intent.

If she escaped it, you realize EVERYTHING you said above, doesn't apply? If she escaped, she didn't regen or tank a dimensional collapse, she was never there to begin with.
Your arguments aren't even consistent with each other dude.

The debunk side just argued that you can escape Dark Aether by just traveling upwards within Dark Aether itself, something the short range teleport can perform.

No? Literally nobody said that. Armor and me even noted that isn't what was meant. Don't strawman.

If his limit is half the LoA, then overloading him with more energy would be over his limit.

"If", it isn't.

Him not using all of the energy at his disposal against Samus when she’s trying to kill him and he’s the last bastion of his race doesn’t make sense if the energy can eventually regenerate, and even if it couldn’t this is a do or die scenario.

It can't regenerate, you were warned about saying that again without evidence.
Secondly, if he used it all, the planet would be destroyed.

Using a bit, yes, a bit, just a bit, is not ground to scale to the WHOLE THING, given we know he didn't, and if he did, he'd have died anyway. Among the other half dozen confirmed points you've ignored.

That’s like every heart ever.

I ask you to refrain from commenting.

The only thing the game says is that Samus needs to get the LoA away from Dark Aether and onto LA, never specified how much of it is needed in percentages from the original amount.

Yes, they do, it's half.

Samus can accomplish that task even if the emperor uses up some of the energy.

Yes, she can, and did, unfortunately him using a negligible fraction isn't scaling.

It obviously wasn’t permanently lost because the planet is treated as not weakened by the end of the game, despite having used that energy and making the planet weak over 50 years ago.

Keyword there, 50 years, not 8 minutes at best while allegedly using it all every second.

Yeah, we’re never given a defined point when Dark Aether would be about to die in terms of having limited energy, so it would probably just be whatever amount was on Light Aether at the start of the game (like << half)

We literally do, when it's gone, it immediately begins dying. The less they have, the quicker it does. We know this, because this is case with LA too, the planet was straight ****** and wouldn't last long with what they had, this is confirmed and stated by multiple dudes, including even the crabs who were there.

so it would probably just be whatever amount was on Light Aether at the start of the game (like << half)

Dude, the planet was DYING and they didn't have much time left, they were doomed.

Yeah it’s full, likely cuz the suit was sitting in there for years and years so the controllers didn’t give it their energy in that precise moment.

Are you for real? The energy was being used to sustain the planet. If it's full it means THE SUIT DOESN'T CONTAIN IT ALL.
It doesnt matter why it's full, the fact it is means she isn't, notwithstanding we know all this shit anyway.

Characters being able to spam off 500 attacks using their power source at “X” level is a common thing in fiction, Metroid isn’t special in that regard. “Samus shouldn’t be able to shoot infinite planet level beam shots, that doesn’t make sense”

What? This is an actual nonargument. If they're drawing from a energy source, that is hard confirmed to be used, when it's USED, they don't get to do that. Ya can't have every attack use it all, and then use it all again because lmao. Different context anyway.

Let Data take care of this, you evidently aren't going to post any actual evidence for your claims.

 

[StretchSebe]

Through some basic google searches based on what other users have explained, it seems like the 'interpretation' presented in the thread starter either doesn't properly consider various plot points, or misses some outright. Most of these have already been brought up by JJ, Data, and DarkDragon, but put simply:

• The reason that Samus upgrades to the Light Suit is to handle the power of the Light of Aether to begin with. This final suit is both an upgrade on all the prior suits, and required to handle such a power source.
• As an energy source meant to be an alternative to a sun, the energy is constantly regenerating, and obviously comparable to one in energy at minimum (lore implies it being more impressive than merely a sun however; again as others before have mentioned already).
• Furthermore, the society of the planet had long used and harnessed it's renewable energy with Energy Controllers. Samus absorbs small amounts of it throughout the game and doesn't get much of a buff, but Emperor Ing absorbs half, and as a result acquires an empowering effect. The implication being you need a sizable amount for it to be meaningful, which Samus does eventually get once she gets the Light Suit.
• Upon returning the Light of Aether, her armor also changes back from the Light Suit to the Varia suit, further supporting the suit's explicit function as containing the energy of the Light of Aether, and how such is probably tied to it as a suit power-up.
• A small point, but lastly in cutscenes, constant light can be seen coming from the holes in the suit. This further implies the power up being directly correlated with being able to handle this power source.

User votes don't matter, but disagree. Was cool to learn about Metroid

 

[JJSliderman]

And? That means nothing here, we know that didn't happen.
Phazon can do a fucktillion things. Did it give Dark Samus a schizophrenic episode too?

She resists Phazon hax but Phazon is still a strong soul-destroying beam. You can’t “resist” stronger opponents beating you up.

And her particles, are not the dimension. Her particles (aka, she still had form), tanked the destruction.
And that's that.

Yes, Dark Samus after being pumped full of essence disrupting Phazon and in her weakest form, tanked the collapse of an entire dimension, seems like sound logic.

Yes, it'd be a 5-B dura feat, she doesnt scale to because she's particles and ISL go brrr
The last bit, you made up, we're never told Dark Burst and DA is the same, it evidently isn't either given it can be used in DA

Never said they were the same, but the fact that both Dark Aether and the Darkburst dimension are both referred to as dark worlds, the only ones in the series introduced in the same game, hints at a correlation.

If she escaped it, you realize EVERYTHING you said above, doesn't apply? If she escaped, she didn't regen or tank a dimensional collapse, she was never there to begin with.
Your arguments aren't even consistent with each other dude.

The OP and you discussed both the possibility of escaping DA by flying upward and tanking DA’s collapse earlier.

No? Literally nobody said that. Armor and me even noted that isn't what was meant. Don't strawman.

We have no clue how Dark Aether interfaces with the space around it- we know the pocket dimension is localized to the planet, but we don't know how trying to physically exit it works- for all we know it just pops you back into normal space. I mean, it's literally what the artbook says happened, for starters.

"If", it isn't.

It can't regenerate, you were warned about saying that again without evidence.
Secondly, if he used it all, the planet would be destroyed.

Using a bit, yes, a bit, just a bit, is not ground to scale to the WHOLE THING, given we know he didn't, and if he did, he'd have died anyway. Among the other half dozen confirmed points you've ignored.

The planet would have had a chance of surviving if he used a significant portion of the energy and defeated Samus, if would have zero chance if he didn’t boost himself with significant energy to defeat Samus. And you even agreed it can regenerate, albeit slowly.

Yes, they do, it's half.

Yes, and by endgame Samus does get half, halves are not always equal, if you split a grapefruit in two but have a big and small portion, those are still two halves of a whole.

Yes, she can, and did, unfortunately him using a negligible fraction isn't scaling.

You’ve been going on saying that Samus needed to restore “all” the energy to fully save Aether, now you’re saying it’s okay if the emperor uses some, pick a side.

Keyword there, 50 years, not 8 minutes at best while allegedly using it all every second.

We never get an indicator of how long the regeneration process takes, so saying it’s 50 years is disingenuous. And people don’t have to use all the energy every second to scale, the Luminoth could utilize the Light for multiple blasts without draining the entirety.

We literally do, when it's gone, it immediately begins dying. The less they have, the quicker it does. We know this, because this is case with LA too, the planet was straight ****** and wouldn't last long with what they had, this is confirmed and stated by multiple dudes, including even the crabs who were there.

Yes, when it’s 100% gone, not at 80% or 90% gone, this doesn’t deconfirm the Emperor using a significant non-total amount of the light.

Are you for real? The energy was being used to sustain the planet. If it's full it means THE SUIT DOESN'T CONTAIN IT ALL.
It doesnt matter why it's full, the fact it is means she isn't, notwithstanding we know all this shit anyway.

If the suit contained no amount of the light of Aether then why is U-Mos straight saying the light “energizes” the suit, to energize means to power up or boost, so the light is going into the suit. Moreover, if the transfer module Samus has can hold a significant chunk of the light of Aether within itself without overloading, then a suit energized by the light of Aether itself should be capable of carrying a comparable amount of light, since we know light energy did go into the suit. The transfer module even goes into and fuses with Samus, so we know that her suit is the element holding the energy within..

 

[JJSliderman]

• The reason that Samus upgrades to the Light Suit is to handle the power of the Light of Aether to begin with. This final suit is both an upgrade on all the prior suits, and required to handle such a power source.

Yeah, if the suit really did only contain a tiny fraction of the LoA, why did U-Mos wait until after all of the regional controllers were restored before handing it over? Why not just give it to Samus immediately, or after the first controller was restored, unless the suit required the potency of all 3 regional controller light sources+the main temple one to be created.