Culex Profile Rework #2 - Extra-Shiny Edition (Spoilers!)

[thetechmaster36]

Hey everyone. With the Mario RPG Remake now available to us, we've gotten the chance to see everything it has to offer. And amongst those things, we have the return of Culex. But not just that, he's gotten a rematch as well! As a result, he's gained new abilities, alongside the Crystals, and so that means that another renovation of his profile was in order. Since I'm posting this on Thanksgiving Day, I won't be online too often, but I just wanted to post this so I can move on with this.

Current profile (from the previous revision)
New profile

Spoiler: Changes (spoiler warning)

Changes:

• New quote for 2D Culex, as it was updated in the localization
• Added 3D Culex tab with a gif and a different quote
• Updated Summary
• Added "3D Form / Rematch" key
• Added a "3D" tab to both "Standard Abilities" and "With Crystals"
• Added new AP, Speed, Durability, etc. justifications for the 3D key
• All tabs for NA&T section have "3D Form" tabs
• Added references (very minor)

That's about it. Happy Thanksgiving Day to everyone who celebrates it!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looking pretty good; though I know this is an appetizer.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Yeah, I'm probably going to end up doing Mallow, Geno, and Smithy at some point later, they're in desperate need of reworks, especially with the remake being released.

I dunno if any new profiles will be created, but I will rework the others

 

[Armorchompy]

Culex should probably have Large Size, I think. For the rest, good work, I think Final Claw isn't necessarily duraneg tho, might just be really high AP.

 

[Omnificence]

Culex should probably have Large Size, I think. For the rest, good work, I think Final Claw isn't necessarily duraneg tho, might just be really high AP.

Not to derail, but couldn't Mario and Luigi be placed at Low 6-B? I mean, consistently, they've taken in hits from Bowser in his giant form, twice in Galaxy 2, a few times in Bowser's Inside Story, etc.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, 9999 damage isn't Durability negation, just really high AP.

 

[Omnificence]

Yeah, 9999 damage isn't Durability negation, just really high AP.

What about Damage Boost or Rage Power?

 

[thetechmaster36]

Culex should probably have Large Size, I think.

Yeah, I'll add Type 0 Large Size to him

I think Final Claw isn't necessarily duraneg tho, might just be really high AP.

That's pretty fair, since one caveat it has is that it can be blocked. I don't know about standard blocking, but perfect blocking will null the 9999 damage, so fair on that point, I'll remove that part

 

[Armorchompy]

What about Damage Boost or Rage Power?

I dunno, it could just be like, strong

 

[JJSliderman]

Are his prefight quotes taken as legitimate for the 3D version?

 

[thetechmaster36]

If you're talking about the "I am matter and antimatter. I am past, present, and future. I will consume all time and space!" quote, then no.

I'm pretty sure this is different in the Japanese version just like the original quote, and as such, we can't use it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Culex 3D should be "6-C, higher with Final Claw" yeah. I think Final Claw is just above his normal AP, as it'll always one-shot the opponent if not perfect blocked

I think something could be said about how the party should get a "higher with Barriers" rating for their perfect blocks, since they can even perfect block Final Claw, but that's for another time

 

[thetechmaster36]

Culex 3D should be "6-C, higher with Final Claw" yeah

Never thought about making it higher, so sure

 

[CloverDragon03]

Looks good now, though Culex 3D should also get Large Size, along with Durability Negation with Meteor

 

[thetechmaster36]

though Culex 3D should also get Large Size

He already has Large Size in his 2D form, he already looks larger than Bowser even in 2D

along with Durability Negation with Meteor

Already covered

 

[CloverDragon03]

Awesome. Don't believe I have any more suggestions, so this is good to go in my books

 

[Mephistus]

For his name in his first form it should just be "Culex" / "Crystaller". I'd wait and use the original translated jp quotes or make a note why they aren't usable for the English ones even if they make the profile flashier.


His appearance feels like a dream come true.

 

[thetechmaster36]

To be fair, it's not like Mario is some sort of Japanese-prominent series that outright demands Japanese quotes and such be used like some animes or mangas, and I don't think many people realistically care about the Japanese quotes since, like the English ones, they're essentially flavor text, especially not when the new translation aligns (for the most part) with the Japanese version already

If nothing else, I'm fine with adding "Crystaller in the Japanese version" to the Summary and Name parts of the profile, but I don't see much importance tbh

 

[Armorchompy]

I think the EN quotes are fine to use for the profile, they're flashy and sound better than something translated to the letter. I'd be fine with adding "Crystaller in JP" on the names section and a note explaining that the quote isn't "canon", though

 

[StrymULTRA]

Culex should probably have Large Size, I think. For the rest, good work, I think Final Claw isn't necessarily duraneg tho, might just be really high AP.

No, Small Size is given by default to whatever 2D being. Bill Cipher has it for a reason.

 

[Armorchompy]

I dunno if Culex is really 2D in the wiki sense given that he and the 3D people can interact with each other freely

 

[StrymULTRA]

I dunno if Culex is really 2D in the wiki sense given that he and the 3D people can interact with each other freely

That's why 3D people can interact with 4D or above guys too, that's not an argument.

 

[Armorchompy]

That's why 3D people can interact with 4D or above guys too, that's not an argument.

What is why they can do that? Because they... can't, without the feats. You would only be able to affect an infinitesimal portion of someone who's higher dimensional. Culex just isn't going for a realistic portrayal of a 2D being.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Or Culex just has feats of interacting with 3D beings, just how 3D beings can affetct 4D?

Like, what? By your logic if a 4D being gets beaten from a 3D, that's an anti feat for the HDE.

 

[Armorchompy]

Correct.

 

[StrymULTRA]

...

That's not how it works here. You're the first one who made up this standard.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well I asked Agnaa and he agreed so it's two of us, minimum.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What I mean is that if a character is straight up stated to be something like NEP, Transdual, Acasual 5, HDE, etc, and some characters interact with it, we assume it being a feat of the latter and not an anti feat of the former.

Plus, you know that it can just mean that in Marioverse 2D and 3D can interact and that's it? In Gravity Falls we already have 2D beings interacting with Ford after that he put his head in the 2D plane (and he almost died), so what's exactly wrong here?

 

[Armorchompy]

If it's explicit enough, sure. But this is a bing bing wahoo mario and therefore probably just not considering the specifics of how interacting with a higher/lower-dimensional entity would work. We don't give lower-dimensional size to Mr. Game & Watch in Smash Bros.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Rip all Low 2-C and higher 3D lads

 

[StrymULTRA]

But this is a bing bing wahoo mario and therefore probably just not considering the specifics of how interacting with a higher/lower-dimensional entity would work.

We do this for Bill Cipher though.

Heck, Type 9 Small Size says that the only requirement is being 2D and White Face is one of the examples.

We don't give lower-dimensional size to Mr. Game & Watch in Smash Bros.

Then he should get it. I'm doing a thread on that later.

 

[Armorchompy]

If a character is allegedly 2D but they act like they're just a flat 3D guy, then they're just a flat 3D guy.

As for Bill Cipher, I don't know (and don't care) about Bill Cipher, so bringing him up here is pretty pointless. Either there's more context to him, or he shouldn't have the ability. Whichever it is I really don't care.

 

[Omnificence]

Rip all Low 2-C and higher 3D lads

They'll be back

 

[StrymULTRA]

If a character is allegedly 2D but they act like they're just a flat 3D guy, then they're just a flat 3D guy.

That's nowhere said in the page though. It only says you have to be 2D and that's it. You're essentially going against the Small Size page

 

[StrymULTRA]

I forgot to say that flat 3D beings don't exist. 3D is having depth, and if you don't, then you're 2D no matter what.

 

[Armorchompy]

That's nowhere said in the page though. It only says you have to be 2D and that's it. You're essentially going against the Small Size page

The "higher dimensions cannot be affected with AP alone" is pretty clear here

 

[StrymULTRA]

...And Culex is just a 2D being that can affect 3D beings with his feats, just like 3Ds can have Tier 2 power? Like what?

The page you've linked is about characters who do not have feats of affecting higher dimensions.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think Culex having the physiology of a 2D being is that bad as long as we acknowledge he still has the power and speed to interaction with 3D beings and his feats at doing so is putting up a fight against Mario's party. The remake even doubles down that Culex' main form has the same sprite graphics as his SNES counterpart. It's also similar to how Mario in Super Mario Odyssey can become 2D and fight other 2D beings even though he still has his 3D degree of power. Same with Link in A Link Between Worlds.

 

[thetechmaster36]

No, Small Size is given by default to whatever 2D being. Bill Cipher has it for a reason.

Well, this is a whataboutism, first and foremost.

But secondly, I disagree with this on the basis that he is not only shown to be larger than Bowser, even in sprite form, but he is also able to consistently interact and damage the very 3D cast that he is so confused about. Yes, his whole joke is that he's a 2D character who wants to learn what 3D "power" is like, but unless we are to say that he should be given Dimensional Manipulation or something similar for being able to harm the cast, he should simply remain untouched in that regard.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But secondly, I disagree with this on the basis that he is not only shown to be larger than Bowser, even in sprite form, but he is also able to consistently interact and damage the very 3D cast that he is so confused about. Yes, his whole joke is that he's a 2D character who wants to learn what 3D "power" is like, but unless we are to say that he should be given Dimensional Manipulation or something similar for being able to harm the cast, he should simply remain untouched in that regard.

2D beings can perfectly harm 3D beings like 3Ds can have Tier 2/1 physical power and can brawl with HDE beings, what's the point?

Type 9 Large Size does not mean you must be Tier 11, just be 2D. Plus I mentioned Gravity Falls as that's a verse where 2D, 3D and 11D beings are all potrayed with similar levels of power, and Mario seems to fall in a similar situation.