• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Culex: Back to Low 2-C

Status
Not open for further replies.
3,334
1,363
Wow, 6 months. That's a lot. I've been finding tons of new stuff. So before I start with those, I wanna start off with this instead, to make it easier for myself. So yes. Culex is Low 2-C, and I disagree with the previous arguments. Let's begin.

I'll start off as to why I think he's Low 2-C.

In the Japanese text, Culex states "Across time, from this world’s beginning to its end, I am the inheritor of the ultimate of Two." So let's elaborate on this. He states that he inherits all of time from start to end. Inherit meaning he possess all of time. He then proceeds to say, "Come forth, o power that rules over all creation!!" This is more evidence that Culex does have full on control and power over all of time and space. Not only that, but the official Nintendo Power guide refers to Culex as a master of time and space. So we have both Culex and the manual stating he has control over all of time and space/all of creation. But I will add one more thing. In the English text, Culex also states, "I consume time…" which as we know, should also be Low 2-C. However, can we use the English text? Does it contradict or relate to the Japanese text? Yes. Both versions refer to Culex about space and time. Let's go over the similarities.

Culex states, "Across time, from this world’s beginning to its end, I am the inheritor of the ultimate of Two." This actually relates to Culex's English text when he states, "I can see your past... I can see your future..." If he was actually the inheritor of all time from start to end, it makes sense that it adds up from seeing the past and future.

Next up he states, "Come forth, o power that rules over all creation!!" So he has power over all of creation. This relates to the English text for when Culex states, "I am matter... I am antimatter..." Matter is... part of all creation, so it makes sense for him to say that. So for using the English text, I say it does back up the Japanese text, which is why I say Culex being able to consume time is allowed. Not for the arguments against it.

Now the reason as to why Culex can be denied this is from the statements that he's actually a 2-D being. The issue? It's a 4th wall joke that was taken literal. Super Mario RPG was advertised as a 3-D RPG, created by Square, who also made Final Fantasy. At the time, those games were 2-D. So Culex isn't actually saying he's 2-D with 2-D power (otherwise he wouldn't even be able to interact with Mario), he's referencing Final Fantasy. And it's such an obvious reference. Culex's design is like Kefka, Culex's theme is just FF's boss theme, and his victory theme is that iconic FF victory music. It's just a reference, not an actual thing Culex relates to. So overall, I say Culex should be Low 2-C.
 
Suprisingly enough I do indeed agree with this

Bring back low 2-C guy from the game Geno shall never leave
 
Like, it doesn't matter that Culex states that he is the master of all space and time because those are just statements. As per how this website works, without feats to corroborate them they are worthless.
 
Also how can you be certain that lines such as "ultimate power over space and time" and "ultimate power to rule over creation" means he can destroy a universe in one attack. Like, seriously, this is just typical villain boasting about having ultimate / unlimited power, it's nothing new. You need to provide feats to corroborate that he actually has reality warping or space-time manipulation on a cosmic scale in order for these to actully be taking as truth.
 
Like others have said, its literally mentioned in the guidebook and backs up his boasts, its not just the character saying he's "the master of time and space" its confirmed to have been the intention the whole time.
BookReaderImages.php
 
Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

It's not just about destruction Matt. But there's also him stating he can eat time, so there's that anyways.
 
Like, it doesn't matter that Culex states that he is the master of all space and time because those are just statements. As per how this website works, without feats to corroborate them they are worthless.
Certain feats require statements in order to be properly understood to begin with. How else would you convey a character destroying an infinite universe/multiverse or having Higher-Dimensional Existence? You can't exactly draw those things on paper.
 
Let's go by what the actual statements page says.

"A character CAN be upgraded by word of mouth alone."
Alright, so this section here already debunks Matthew's entire argument as rubbish. Let's look at the other points though.

"If the source of the statement is reliable?"
Considering it's not coming from a random character AND it's from the character himself, there's no reason to say an outside source would skew it. Culex has no reason to be lying here or anything of the such. It's literally just him stating his own power.

"If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character?"
Well, Culex is a character who only appears as an optional boss fight, so it doesn't contradict anything. It doesn't contradict his own feats as well considering he barely has any aside from his statements and Mario cast scaling.

"If the statement is only valid in the context of its setting, or if it holds up in comparison with other settings?"
I see no reason why it would be just limited to the setting at all. Culex's statements completely pass everything needed for the statement to be considered.

Addressing Matt's arguments:

"Like, it doesn't matter that Culex states that he is the master of all space and time because those are just statements. As per how this website works, without feats to corroborate them they are worthless."
Already went over how your argument contradicts the site's actual standards. Sorry if you feel like it doesn't meet your unnecessarily high standards about statements, but it meets the community-wide expectations at large.

"Also how can you be certain that lines such as "ultimate power over space and time" and "ultimate power to rule over creation" means he can destroy a universe in one attack."
You don't have to get a tier simply through just destruction, that's a very obtuse outlook. This is a very summarized version of the OP to the point it's outright strawmanning. They explain why the context of those two things matter.


"Like, seriously, this is just typical villain boasting about having ultimate / unlimited power, it's nothing new. You need to provide feats to corroborate that he actually has reality warping or space-time manipulation on a cosmic scale in order for these to actully be taking as truth."
Cell got a tier off of a statement alone. Most of Pokemon's Mountain tiering is literally from statements. A major part of Boros' tiering comes from a statement of destroying the surface of the planet. There are many series in general that get tiering off of LORE which is literally glorified statements. Don't talk like statements can't get you tiering because there are so many examples you can pull that show you are just being biased here.

I'm going to pose you a simple question. Can you name a reason why an author is going to talk about the beginning to the end of a timeline for a character quote and for something reason to have statements of "controlling time" only limited to an incredibly localized scale? Exactly, because little to no such scenarios exist.

Face it, Culex is Low 2-C. It's not a hard pill to swallow considering it's such a minor character.
 
I want to add to OneBrit's explanation, that it also doesn't contradict anything because both versions of the character mention the time-space controlling/destroying angle so its consistent with the lore for both Japan/US, the character is supposed to be based on Final Fantasy characters who can be Universe+ and beyond and meant to be this intimidating secret boss, and he's literally stated to be the strongest character in the game and surpasses every other villain by far, even Smithy the final boss. Only character he would be outright weaker than is Mario, who in verse has other feats and fought other characters who also arguably have Low 2-C or higher feats, so its not like a random one-off bad guy that had this power level that no one in the series ever had after.

At bare minimum, Culex by himself being Low 2-C isn't ridiculous, if you want to argue for scaling to other bosses in the game fine, but nothing he's done contradicts this upgrade.
 
Certain feats require statements in order to be properly understood to begin with. How else would you convey a character destroying an infinite universe/multiverse or having Higher-Dimensional Existence? You can't exactly draw those things on paper.
Multiverse busting is absolutely depicted on screen easily through simple narration and maybe some special effects.

"John channeled his power and unleashed a mighty, all-encompassing wave of energy that shredded through the dimensional fabric of endless universes."

I just wrote a character busting a multiverse. It's not hard.
 
Also narration saying a character is the "Master of space and time" isn't a feat. The statement can mean basically anything without a concrete feat to show what he can do.
 
It's not just about destruction Matt. But there's also him stating he can eat time, so there's that anyways.
Where's this statement and why didn't you open with that, him stating that he has the ultimate power is just unquantifiable, this at least is something.
 
Where's this statement and why didn't you open with that, him stating that he has the ultimate power is just unquantifiable, this at least is something.
Okay, I literally added this on the thread. Did you NOT read it?

"But I will add one more thing. In the English text, Culex also states, "I consume time…" which as we know, should also be Low 2-C."
 
Multiverse busting is absolutely depicted on screen easily through simple narration and maybe some special effects.
The narration itself is a statement, with the only difference being that the narrator is who gave the statement. No amount of special effects is going to showcase destruction on an infinite scale.
"John channeled his power and unleashed a mighty, all-encompassing wave of energy that shredded through the dimensional fabric of endless universes."
That's a statement.
I just wrote a character busting a multiverse. It's not hard.
See above.
 
Thanks, I missed it between the long paragraphs. I think a better structured way to make the point would just to list all the statements in a list.

"I consume time" can definitely be Low 2-C but it depends on the scale and timeframe with which he does it.
 
Is Culex even a villain? Like dude isn’t evil per se so I doubt he’d do the villain boasting.

Also it scales too Boshi who killed him with an Ultima.
 
Why are you moving goalposts, you said statments didn't matter but now you are saying they do?
I'm not moving the goalpost, I'm saying that statements in themselves are irrelevant, but on top of that the statements about Culex being the master of creation / space and time are utterly unquantifiable even when taken at a face value. "I consume time" at least can be quantified to mean something AP wise.

That's a statement.
It's not. It's third person omniscient narration. There's these things called books.
 
No, the narrator stating something is still a statement for all logical purposes. Just by a more definitive source. Though the character themselves should also be considered a good source unless you can find an actual contradiction/ prove it was just a boast.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top