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- #321
Bump 4
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Consistency of Saitama’s normal punch, along with an armored Boros durability suggestion.
- Thread starter ZillertheBucko
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I do automotive engineering stuff. So there are just weeks where I have no left over energy for hobby stuff like VSBW.
For the punch thing while I don't agree that Saitama's normal punch has some upper cap to it, his statements about Goketsu and the bonus chapter indicate that his normal punches are enough to do the job in basically every situation, so they must hit some vaguely even upper end.
But for Orochi he didn't slap the arms and Boros was also gibbed when Saitama punched him directly, so while he upscales I wouldn't say it would be by some massive degree.
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- #323
Just to clear things up, armored Boros wouldn’t be upscaling from Orochi since his armored was shattered and we don’t really know how much of it his main body absorbed, but it’s safe to say he’s stronger than Gouketsu and the meteor who were completely obliterated
the proposed scaling now just comes from released Boros not considering the high 6-A punch to his armored form to be stronger than his released form (until later on)
Basically the same scaling we use for Psykorochi
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- #324
bump
the sooner we get this done the sooner you see your children
the sooner we get this done the sooner you see your children
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I was thinking, the argument against the scale of Damage is Boros not being a reliable source, but that would mean that Boros' final statement about Saitama lying and that it wasn't even a real fight is also unreliable and considering Saitama is a more reliable source, your statement "Almost a real fight" is valid, which means Boros is 4-A.
Checkmate Damage
Checkmate Damage
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This is the kind of thread that even if accepted, someone would eventually get the changes reversed (see this thread).
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- #327
1. This is a complete non argument
2. That was removed due to the biggest justification being based on a mistranslation
3. Did you read the OP like I asked or is this the only thing you came to do.
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DoWnPlAy
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- #330
pretty sure my boy Coom would be fine with this too
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I'm just a content moderator, my vote won't really matter, sorry Ziller.
Any input about this thread? @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo
Any input about this thread? @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo
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Listen to me, if we agree with Damage we can get 4-A Boros
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I like your optimism.
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- #335
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After reading over everything I’m in agreement with Damage’s arguments.
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If you wouldn't mind, could you share the exact sentiments you agree with?
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- #339
Arguments about what?
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Specifically the Speed arguments gone over on the first page and his arguments against confidence scaling.
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- #341
1. that’s not specific at all
2. Damage wasn’t even arguing that the normal punches are inconsistent
In fact he also agreed that meteoric burst is probably gonna scale above orochi regardless too
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The speed part doesn't matter, as far as the AP is concerned, nor was this the reason that Damage relied on to refute the OP.
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I have no intention of repeating his arguments if that’s what you’re asking me to do.
Ah, misremembered. Edited.
‘Kay. I didn’t say I’m in opposition to this.
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@Maverick_Zero_X Thanks for commenting.
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- #345
Alright now that you’ve read the arguments…
I assume you’re willing to discuss a bit about why, just in case there are any more misunderstandings like that
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@ZillertheBucko Are you willing to accept the suggested result of just scaling Meteoric Burst Boros above Orochi? Or do you want to keep this thread open to the end of time?
Myself, Qaws, and Maverick don't appear to be in favor of your proposal and at this point I think that's enough to reject the original proposal.
Myself, Qaws, and Maverick don't appear to be in favor of your proposal and at this point I think that's enough to reject the original proposal.
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- #347
not quite
Qaws was willing to upscale released Boros from Orochi
and besides Maverick just got here a few minutes ago, so it would be best to go back to our last exchange and continue
It’s 2:1 staff wise, but the vast majority in general agrees, so there’s no need to stop discussion prematurely
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- #348
Particularly, let’s go back to confidence scaling
the claim is that because Boros was wrong over and over about being able to beat saitama, that it’s not usable for scaling
But a major factor behind all confidence scaling in the verse is that it doesn’t require the sentiment to be proven, because it’s used as self comparison rather than outside comparison
the idea is this
Guy sees someone blow up a planet, he says “I can still beat him”
turns out he was proven wrong because guy who blew up planet can actually blow up infinite hierarchies, but we would still say guy 1 can be planet level
now the difference is that guy 1 here has a sixth sense, so to some degree, his ability to tell how strong someone is should at least be somewhat more reliable
The conditions are all satisfied here
1, armored Boros directly takes the first punch, meaning he should have a first hand assessment of how strong saitama should at least be
2. He believes that his released form is stronger than saitama, of course until he holds back less, and then he adjusts his views to say that he needs battle of attrition, or meteoric burst etc.
which proves he’s not just delusional, since he does accurately change his assessment based on saitama showing more power, it doesn’t mean he has poor judgement, it means he has good judgement, and later on after saitama beats csrc, he accurately assessed that Saitama is far above him, meaning again, he’s not delusional, just that Saitama at the start of the fight threw a punch that wasn’t enough to prove that he was stronger than him
It’s valid confidence scaling. For decades the point of “being confident and then being proven wrong immediately after isn’t the best display” has been countered with this reasoning. This is not a special case where a rejection is really warranted, it’s just good confidence scaling.
the claim is that because Boros was wrong over and over about being able to beat saitama, that it’s not usable for scaling
But a major factor behind all confidence scaling in the verse is that it doesn’t require the sentiment to be proven, because it’s used as self comparison rather than outside comparison
the idea is this
Guy sees someone blow up a planet, he says “I can still beat him”
turns out he was proven wrong because guy who blew up planet can actually blow up infinite hierarchies, but we would still say guy 1 can be planet level
now the difference is that guy 1 here has a sixth sense, so to some degree, his ability to tell how strong someone is should at least be somewhat more reliable
The conditions are all satisfied here
1, armored Boros directly takes the first punch, meaning he should have a first hand assessment of how strong saitama should at least be
2. He believes that his released form is stronger than saitama, of course until he holds back less, and then he adjusts his views to say that he needs battle of attrition, or meteoric burst etc.
which proves he’s not just delusional, since he does accurately change his assessment based on saitama showing more power, it doesn’t mean he has poor judgement, it means he has good judgement, and later on after saitama beats csrc, he accurately assessed that Saitama is far above him, meaning again, he’s not delusional, just that Saitama at the start of the fight threw a punch that wasn’t enough to prove that he was stronger than him
It’s valid confidence scaling. For decades the point of “being confident and then being proven wrong immediately after isn’t the best display” has been countered with this reasoning. This is not a special case where a rejection is really warranted, it’s just good confidence scaling.
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When does Boros ever actually say that his released form is stronger than Saitama?
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Also, we already applied the confidence scale to Boros for his speed, because of the confidence scale he got the possibly relativistic+, from seeing Saitama casually get a relativistic+ feat, he still had confidence that he could defeat Saitama
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- #352
“I’m surprised that you could keep up with my released form” after saitama had already thrown a high 6-A punch at his armored form
We showed you the scan before I recall
That’s not relevant to what I said
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This would only work if he saw Saitama performing the feat in question, like Saitama beating Orochi.
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He said that after losing his entire fricking arm, the guy is being delusional.
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Fragile arms, the rest of your body is strong.
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- #356
His arm getting blown off is the reason he was surprised, after his arm blow off he adjusted his viewpoint to say that he would only beat Saitama by wearing him down and regenerating.
we already talked about this
and didn’t you literally say yourself that you were choosing not to read the OP or arguments? I’m cool with that but I was under the impression that you were just choosing not to participate in the thread
you can’t openly admit to not wanting to read the relevant info and then start arguing about it anyways. Sorry man but this really isn’t helpful
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Or Boros doesn't have a perfect measurement of Saitama's statistics, and was just surprised that the strength Saitama used against him is also enough to "keep up" with his released form.
If somebody slaps you in the face, do you have a perfect read on how many joules they used to hit you with?
If somebody slaps you in the face, do you have a perfect read on how many joules they used to hit you with?
We still give him just a "possibly" for that, but I'm fine with removing it entirely.
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Nothing Boros says is reliable ie his statement that Saitama didn't use all of his power is false which means Saitama's statement of the battle being almost a real fight is valid... That's why Boros is 4-A
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So you accept that the power Saitama is using, which was enough to defeat Orochi, was able to blow off Boros' entire arm, how exactly do you want the latter to scale from that? Released Boros' punches can't blow off his own arms, I don't care how you want to interpret his words, Saitama at that point is using far more power than Released Boros can deliver.
What would have been really helpful is if someone had summarized the arguments here so that thread moderators could help more efficiently.
I don't want to leave you screaming at an empty thread for all eternity.
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- #360
Then remove all confidence scaling in the entire verse. This is massively hypocritical and doing a complete 180 on what we’ve always accepted, using counterarguments that we’ve always debunked.
What you’re saying is not that there is any reason for Boros to not scale, but that confidence scaling as a whole has 0 validity whatsoever, even in cases where it is even more valid than usual such as this.
In fact, if “not knowing the exact number of Joules” is a counterargument with any kind of weight, then virtually every statement in general is unusable. We have ALWAYS allowed confidence scaling, and we always will because without making incredibly minor laws like that, we would get nowhere on anything and the wiki would be a damn wasteland
We give him a possibly because it’s based on a Murata statement, the scaling logic itself is completely accepted. Stop trying to jump the gun on these downgrades.
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