Clarifications needed on Yggdrasil (God of War)'s profile

[KLOL506]

Ok, but Cory and Bruno have said that the well contains infinite timelines PHYSICALLY.

And then later Bruno stated something about no universes being involved, only geological divides, and then he was shown the card game scan that then he said he didn't know much about because it was the narrative writers and creators of the game who knew more. So it's ambiguous if anything at best.

Huh? Isn't the well in the Tyr's temple as per its art work:-

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/zg3wQ

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah no. Not the same well. I argued this point to hell and back.

And Ragnarok ultimately proved me true. It's just a lake in the far north of Midgard.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

And then later Bruno stated something about no universes being involved, only geological divides, and then he was shown the card game scan that then he said he didn't know much about because it was the narrative writers and creators of the game who knew more. So it's ambiguous if anything at best.


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah no. Not the same well. I argued this point to hell and back.

And Ragnarok ultimately proved me true. It's just a lake in the far north of Midgard.

How can a well and a lake be the same thing :/

 

[KLOL506]

How can a well and a lake be the same thing :/

Don't ask me, that's what the location is literally named in Ragnarok now.

Best bet is to just hold out on the Mask and the Green Rift.

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

Don't ask me, that's what the location is literally named in Ragnarok now.

Best bet is to just hold out on the Mask and the Green Rift.

or Q&A Dev Livestream

 

[KLOL506]

Anyway, I have checked the Well of Urd section myself, it's not even a well, but a random ass lake where the Norns reside, no codex entries, the Norns don't leave much for interpretation in their Codex entry either.

If anything. Ragnarok wanks the Greek Pantheon even more than I had personally expected, and makes alternate timelines more viable on the Greek side than the Norse side.

So for now, unless we get anything new out of the Green Rift and the Mask in later materials, I would say a downgrade to 2-C is preferable. And the Note on the Tree has to go as well.

WORDS CANNOT EXPRESS JUST HOW MUCH I ******* HATE @Aetheric Pariah NOW.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Yup, i was a little scared to say that here

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

WORDS CANNOT EXPRESS JUST HOW MUCH I ******* HATE @Aetheric Pariah NOW.

Cope

 

[KLOL506]

Cope

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[KLOL506]

Anyway. With that being said, I think it's best to just apply the downgrades right now.

Remove all the Card Game stuff and the midpoint stuff, and keep everything else Freya said and the 9 Realms said, and keep the novel size management.

Low Multiverse level (The World Tree completely encompasses and is ever-present throughout all of the Norse Realms, which are separate space-time continuums; the only things outside its reach are other Pantheons' domains, such as the realms ruled by the Greek Gods, etcetera., with the tree itself stated to "transcend space and time" by Freya, that the Cycles of Life, Death and Rebirth are all but a part of the tree to which they will return to, with the Tree's branches alone stretching out to infinity)

Higher-Dimensional Existence as a result also goes, not sure if the Nonexistent Physiology gets replaced with Incorporeality or whatnot, though Ginnungagap being part of Yggdrasil could certainly help it staying. Concept Manip can possibly stay.

Also the dura justification should be changed and the "minor damage" part goes. Something about Surtr might need to be added, but that is spoiler territory and I'd keep it for later.

The scaling note also goes. Ragnarok debunked it not scaling to the cast. Yggdrasil is fodder now.

@GilverTheProtoAngelo @Dienomite22 @Theglassman12 @Aetheric Pariah @Planck69 @KingTempest @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Mister6ame6 Is this fine?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Absolutely

 

[KLOL506]

Absolutely

Thoughts about the Non-Existent Physiology stuff?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Should stay via Ginnungagap

 

[KLOL506]

Should stay via Ginnungagap

What would the new justification be? Would it still retain Type 1?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

That we need to discuss.
Post this in general discussion thread... See what others say.

 

[Planck69]

Agree with downgrading it. Not sure about Nonexistent Physiology since just having a void as part of you isn't enough to get it in most circumstances.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I agree with the downgrade. Unsure about Nonexistent Physiology

 

[KLOL506]

Agree with downgrading it. Not sure about Nonexistent Physiology since just having a void as part of you isn't enough to get it in most circumstances.

Even if the void is Primordial in nature and the tree still treats it as utter garbage? What about incorporeality?

 

[Planck69]

Even if the void is Primordial in nature and the tree still treats it as utter garbage? What about incorporeality?

Even then. You'd need to prove that the Yggdrasil and Ginnugagap share the same nature in terms of existence. As for incorporeality, what's the argument for it?

 

[KLOL506]

Even then. You'd need to prove that the Yggdrasil and Ginnugagap share the same nature in terms of existence. As for incorporeality, what's the argument for it?

Tree's true form existing somewhere else, and the Realm Travel room version being an artistic representation.

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

so every top-tier become 2-C right now ?? no 3-A or High 3-A stuff ??

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Quick question, why does Low 1-C have to go?
Whats the difference between 2-C and 2-A while transcending the concepts of space and time?

 

[Andika_CL_atmadja]

Quick question, why does Low 1-C have to go?
Whats the difference between 2-C and 2-A while transcending the concepts of space and time?

basically lack of consistent connection between primary source and secondary source

 

[Planck69]

Quick question, why does Low 1-C have to go?
Whats the difference between 2-C and 2-A while transcending the concepts of space and time?

Just a statement of transcending space and time with no further elaboration is considered too vague.

so every top-tier become 2-C right now ?? no 3-A or High 3-A stuff ??

Yeah.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I did the final thing that I wanted to with kratos, which is give him Reactive Evolution. Profile is perfect now aside from norse additions. Tier 2 and 1 are cringe, plz Don't hurt me by making kratos straight tier 2.

 

[Planck69]

No :v

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Just a statement of transcending space and time with no further elaboration is considered too vague.

Are we rejecting a very blatant Low 1-C statement because its the only evidence for such a tier?
Not even a “possibly Low 1-C" rating works?

By the way, this definitely isnt even the only evidence for Low 1-C Yggdrasil actually

 

[KingTempest]

Anyway. With that being said, I think it's best to just apply the downgrades right now.

Remove all the Card Game stuff and the midpoint stuff, and keep everything else Freya said and the 9 Realms said, and keep the novel size management.

Low Multiverse level (The World Tree completely encompasses and is ever-present throughout all of the Norse Realms, which are separate space-time continuums; the only things outside its reach are other Pantheons' domains, such as the realms ruled by the Greek Gods, etcetera., with the tree itself stated to "transcend space and time" by Freya, that the Cycles of Life, Death and Rebirth are all but a part of the tree to which they will return to, with the Tree's branches alone stretching out to infinity)

Looks good

Higher-Dimensional Existence as a result also goes, not sure if the Nonexistent Physiology gets replaced with Incorporeality or whatnot, though Ginnungagap being part of Yggdrasil could certainly help it staying. Concept Manip can possibly stay.

Not an expert of NEP, but HD Existence looks solid

Also the dura justification should be changed and the "minor damage" part goes. Something about Surtr might need to be added, but that is spoiler territory and I'd keep it for later.

Yup

The scaling note also goes. Ragnarok debunked it not scaling to the cast. Yggdrasil is fodder now.

gg

 

[KLOL506]

Are we rejecting a very blatant Low 1-C statement because its the only evidence for such a tier?
Not even a “possibly Low 1-C" rating works?

'Fraid not, the whole "transcends time and space" stuff is considered very vague here simply because of the word "Transcends". If it stated "surpasses" or "exists higher than" then we'd have no problem here but you can see how finicky it can be here. Being infinitely bigger than the realms also kind of doesn't count from what I hear without implied existential superiority.

By the way, this definitely isnt even the only evidence for Low 1-C Yggdrasil actually

The mid-point arguments were also kind of rendered invalid at a point.

 

[KLOL506]

Even then. You'd need to prove that the Yggdrasil and Ginnugagap share the same nature in terms of existence. As for incorporeality, what's the argument for it?

The tree's form in the Realm Travel room being only an artistic representation of its true self.

 

[Dienomite22]

I think we can say the Yggdrasil has it's own form of time that is transcendent over the 9 realms. According to Ymir's Jotnar shrine, it states that time was young when he was created and because we know no realms were around yet that could mean the Yggdrasil has its' own overarching timeline. This is further evident by "Primordial" being used to describe the Primordial Ice and fire that met to birth Ymir since Primordial means "existing at or from the beginning of time; primeval." and we know the use of the word in a literal sense is valid because we do so for Greek God of War. Also during this time, "space" did not exist as space was only created after Odin used Ymir's skull to create it which is something to note.

This would mean Yggdrasil existed before space and time, Primordial ice and fire meeting caused time to exist and Ymir to come into existence and Odin was somehow able to create different space-time universes out of Ymir's body and it's all maintained by the Yggdrasil. The Yggdrasil has no need for concepts such as time and space as it existed before both but it can maintain the existence of several space-time universes and is stated to transcend space and time of the nine realms.

This sounds like something far beyond 2-C but I'm unsure if it qualifies for tier 1. It's kinda in-between.

 

[KLOL506]

I think we can say the Yggdrasil has it's own form of time that is transcendent over the 9 realms. According to Ymir's Jotnar shrine, it states that time was young when he was created and because we know no realms were around yet that could mean the Yggdrasil has its' own overarching timeline. This is further evident by "Primordial" being used to describe the Primordial Ice and fire that met to birth Ymir since Primordial means "existing at or from the beginning of time; primeval." and we know the use of the word literally is valid because we do so for Greek God of War. Also during this time, "space" did not exist as space was only created after Odin used Ymir's skull to create it which is something to note.

This would mean Yggdrasil existed before space and time, Primordial ice and fire meeting caused time to exist and Ymir to come into existence and Odin was somehow able to create different space-time universes out of Ymir's body and it's all maintained by the Yggdrasil. The Yggdrasil has no need for concepts such as time and space as it existed before both but it can maintain the existence of several space-time universes and is stated to transcend space and time of the nine realms.

This sounds like something far beyond 2-C but I'm unsure if it qualifies for tier 1. It's kinda in-between.

Still don't think this implies existential superiority but something we could note down. Would this grant it Type 4 Acausality and Type 1 Concept Manip and AE?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Still don't think this implies existential superiority but something we could note down. Would this grant it Type 4 Acausality and Type 1 Concept Manip and AE?

Type 1 AC and CM1 maybe?

 

[Planck69]

Still don't think this implies existential superiority but something we could note down. Would this grant it Type 4 Acausality and Type 1 Concept Manip and AE?

Actually, if the above is true then you can actually make a very solid case for Tier 1. Not sure what it'd grant aside from that though.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

The plot Thickens

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Actually, if the above is true then you can actually make a very solid case for Tier 1. Not sure what it'd grant aside from that though.

I will also prefer if Ultima Reality take a look at this evidence as it doesn’t truly imply qualitative superiority as Yggdrasil predating before space and time doesn’t grant or at least shouldn’t grant qualitative superiority by itself. The only thing that will technically grant Tier Low 1C was the one where it was stated that Yggdrasil was transcending space and time.

Edit: Also they are technically using interpretation of one of the evidences shown as well.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

The Yggdrasil is 100% "at least low 1-C, possibly higher" for me. The game and the novel state that it transcends Space and Time, and going by the context in which this statement was made Freya was definitely referring to conceptual Space and Time (alongwith other abstract concepts such as Life, Death, Rebirth, Fate, etc). You also had Cory confirm on E-mail that Freya was indeed talking about the literal concepts of Space and Time there. This was never contradicted in GoW : R either. It couldn't be clearer. This is blatant "at least low 1-C, possibly higher".

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Meant to say space and time as from what I understanding is that Yggdrasil predates before space comes to form, but time is young when Ymir was being formed. However, I don’t think this strictly means anything by itself inherently since we also see in the game itself that the World Serpent (Young version) was also sent back in time.




However, I not sure if “Time is young” is a strong indication of Yggdrasil truly predates time entirely, but I digress on the matter.

 

[Dienomite22]

Meant to say space and time as from what I understanding is that Yggdrasil predates before space comes to form, but time is young when Ymir was being formed. However, I don’t think this strictly means anything by itself inherently since we also see in the game itself that the World Serpent (Young version) was also sent back in time.

wdym

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Oh yeah, Mimir also say about a tale back in 2018 where he explains a tale of the World Serpent being in a battle with Thor and was sent back in time.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

wdym

Oh, I just saying that predating time and space shouldn’t inherently grant you qualitative superiority over time and space by default.

The only relevant evidence and argument for Tier Low1C was transcending time and space for Yggdrasil which without further context, wouldn’t grant you Low 1C sadly.

I guess you can get a argument for Yggdrasil of it being AE I think as it being a abstract location or something if it hasn’t already gotten that.