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I meant what did you mean by the Thor and Jormungandr thing.
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Clarifications needed on Yggdrasil (God of War)'s profile
- Thread starter Ultima_Reality
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Oh, it implies that time exist alongside Yggdrasil as Mimir explains that their battle during the events of
Ragnarök and the end result of the said battle the World Serpent was sent back in time before he was ever born.
We saw that happening in the most recent game when GOW Ragnarok shows Arteus reviving the younger World serpent with the help of another half giant (or was she a full on giant?).
This, at least, implied to me that time did still exist alongside Yggdrasil or something.
However, I do find the interpretation of Yggdrasil predating time is also still a possible one too as it is not completely out of the question.
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Okay, thanks for explaining your point. My answer to that is I don't believe that contradicts Yggdrasil predating time. Each realm already has different space-times meaning we are already talking about 9 different universal timelines that are existing on the Yggdrasil. It makes sense that Thor splintering the Yggdrasil can cause Jormungandr to travel back in time relative to all the realms because he is affecting the structure that maintains and transcend those multiple space-time universes.
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That is a interesting interpretation, but the only time this was said is “Time is young” which in my opinion doesn’t strictly means that Yggdrasil truly predates time or At least doesn’t implied that to me entirely that Yggdrasil entirely predates time.
Anyway, I noticed on Yggdrasil’s profile it already has AE Type 1 in its profile .
“Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.”
Also since it is technically already covered by the fact that Yggdrasil is already omnipresent from what was talked about in regards to Yggdrasil at least.
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Though I do believe the Yggdrasil predates time not just from the time is young statement but also due to God of War's use of Primordial's literal definition being valid and whatever else, whether or not time existed prior to the Yggdrasil or not was an unimportant tangent on my part. The main idea was that there is a "timeline" for lack of a better word that exists above the 9 realms' of space-times logically speaking.
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Yeah, I'm not sure why we're trying to confirm whether or not the Yggdrasil predates time when the main point is that it has a timeline that predates the space-time continuums of the Nine Realms, and would thus have them be objects embedded within its higher time flow.
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exactly
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If it was Low 1-C, would the justifications be like this?
Low Complex Multiverse level (The Yggdrasil supports all of creation along its boughs, with each strand transcending space and time. It predates all the Nine Realms and possesses a flow of time that encompasses them within itself, with the latter themselves being separate space-time continuums)
Low Complex Multiverse level (The Yggdrasil supports all of creation along its boughs, with each strand transcending space and time. It predates all the Nine Realms and possesses a flow of time that encompasses them within itself, with the latter themselves being separate space-time continuums)
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*Its strands transcend space and time. But ultimately, the tier is determined by the context of the statement in question.
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The game and the novel state that it transcends Space and Time, and going by the context in which this statement was made Freya was definitely referring to conceptual Space and Time (along with other abstract concepts such as Life, Death, Rebirth, Fate, etc). You also had Cory confirm on E-mail that Freya was indeed talking about the literal concepts of Space and Time there. This was never contradicted in GoW : R either. It couldn't be clearer. This is blatant "at least low 1-C, possibly higher".
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I hope you realize that "transcending the concepts of space and time" is no more tierable than just "transcending time and space" right? It all comes back to context. Granted, I personally think that between the statement and the fact that the time flow of the Yggdrasil encompasses the space-time continuums of the Nine Realms within them, it should be enough for Low 1-C, my opinion isn't the be-all-end-all for the tiering.
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I thought once it's made clear that there's an existential superiority over the regular Space-Time continuums (which the Yggdrasil does have ; over the 9 realms) along with a statement which contextually validates the said object/entity being transcendent over the abstractions of Space and Time (which the Yggdrasil does have as per Freya's statement in the game as well as the novel when we look at it in-context, and according to Cory himself), and not just a vague "beyond Space and Time" statement, it's enough for low 1-C. Right? We should probably add "possibly higher" too as transcending the abstractions of Space and Time could indeed go higher.
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We don't add "Possibly higher" just because you can theoretically get up to High 1-A via "transcending the concepts of space and time". I can see a base Low 1-C rating but that depends on what the others think.
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Bruh, it's people that still don't even like Tier 2.
It's people that think they shouldn't be past Tier 6 lol
It's people that think they shouldn't be past Tier 6 lol
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AC? You mean Acausality?
Anyway @Dienomite22, how will we word the "time was young when Ymir existed" stuff in the AP description?
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I still think we should wait for further statements of "existential superiority" before slapping a Low 1-C rating. For now, I think it would just work as evidence for Type 4 Acausality (It has its own rules for time bullshit), Type 1 Abstract Existence and Type 1 CM, since as per the mural and Mimir, Yggdrasil existed before time and space themselves thanks to Ginnungagap stuff.
So yeah, pray and hope we get more info on the Mask and the Green Rift in the future.
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Existential superiority is mainly proven by the statements, feats and context behind them. You're unlikely to actually find a verse that says "This plane is existentially superior to the universe" or something. That said, if waiting's the game then I'm cool with it.
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Waiting and Athena are unfortunately the game right now.
Though again, funnily enough this would upgrade the other Pantheons too because of Athena's bullshit.
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Yeah. Still, I get to use Freya for 2-C matches so that's something.
Did we ever get a codex entry for the mask or nah?
Hopefully we get more information. Kratos vs Doomguy but they both one-shot Dragon Ball is a hilarious image for me.
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for me, i would like to waiting supplementary material first
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I don’t know tbh. I’m not good with describing things neat and concisely. Plus it depends on if everyone agrees that the Yggdrasil predates time or not.
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Well TBF I don't think predating time has ever been used as an AP justification, I guess that would just go into the P&A section as Type 4 Acausality and Type 1 CM and AE, much like the Greek Primordials, who predated and created all of reality and were literal concepts responsible for forging the affinities they represented.
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well yes, simply predating time would not guarantee tier. This is why primordials greek only obtain time manip resistance.
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And Acausality Type 4, but that's for later.
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due to hax scaling shenanigans ?
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Nah, existing before the Greek Reality did.
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Bump. We need to get this finished.
So far the downgrade to 2-C has more or less been accepted, and Higher-Dimensional Existence will also remain I suppose.
And the scaling notes will be axed too, Ragnarok confirms blatant interaction and severe damage to the tree that surpasses all the previous prophecies previously heard in 2018.
Now, based on this comment...
@Dienomite22 @GilverTheProtoAngelo @Theglassman12 @Planck69 Assistance needed.
So far the downgrade to 2-C has more or less been accepted, and Higher-Dimensional Existence will also remain I suppose.
And the scaling notes will be axed too, Ragnarok confirms blatant interaction and severe damage to the tree that surpasses all the previous prophecies previously heard in 2018.
Now, based on this comment...
We need to word this into the AP section somehow, but before that this would most definitely confirm the Yggdrasil being an overarching timeline and it also having access to Concept Manip Type 1, Acausality Type 4 and Abstract Existence Type 1 bare minimum, since the Tree existed even before Ginnungagap, which itself existed before any of creation or its cycles existed, with the Ymir mural stating that Time was young when he was born. Aaaaaaaand overarching timelines aren't necessarily Low 1-C by default. Also the current "transcends time and space" statement is not concrete enough to imply existential superiority, unlike Athena's, but at best it serves as support to the whole "predates time and creation stuff". Will need some assistance to word this into the AP section.
@Dienomite22 @GilverTheProtoAngelo @Theglassman12 @Planck69 Assistance needed.
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The World Tree completely encompasses and is ever-present throughout all of the Norse Realms[1]; the only things outside its reach are other Pantheons' domains, such as the realms ruled by the Greek Gods, etcetera. The Yggdrasil's branches alone simultaneously encompass and transcend the concepts of space and time altogether[9], and the 9 realms they encompass[10][7] are separate space[11]-time[12] continuums.
I think these parts of the current Yggdrasil's profile still apply but we need to add the timeline stuff to it.
I think these parts of the current Yggdrasil's profile still apply but we need to add the timeline stuff to it.
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The timeline stuff being the Ymir stuff?
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yes
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'Kay so how do we word the Ymir part?
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I'm not sure. I think some of the explanation would be on a Ymir profile and that profile would be linked to Yggdrasil's explanation.
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I think it's less to do with Ymir existing and more so with Time being stated to be young when Ymir was born, that and the tree existing before even the void itself. And predating even the Spark of the World that existed within said void that birthed the Primordial realms.
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Existing before the Ginnungagap, the great void of primordial Fire and Ice which met to produce Ymir, the Yggdrasil completely encompasses and is ever-present throughout all of the Norse Realms[1]; the only things outside its reach are other Pantheons' domains, such as the realms ruled by the Greek Gods, etcetera. The Yggdrasil's branches alone simultaneously encompass and transcend the concepts of space and time altogether[9], and the 9 realms they encompass[10][7] are separate space[11]-time[12] continuums.
Looking a little better but missing some stuff
Looking a little better but missing some stuff
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Something about the Spark of the World (Where Fire and Ice met to produce the Giants) and Time being young when Ymir was born from that mural should be mentioned as well
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Existing before the Ginnungagap, the great void of primordial Fire and Ice met to produce Ymir during the period when time itself was young. The Yggdrasil completely encompasses and is ever-present throughout all of the Norse Realms[1]; the only things outside its reach are other Pantheons' domains, such as the realms ruled by the Greek Gods, etcetera. The Yggdrasil's branches alone simultaneously encompass and transcend the concepts of space and time altogether[9], and the 9 realms they encompass[10][7] are separate space[11]-time[12] continuums.
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