Cinder Fall tier revision (RWBY)

[Kaltias]

Why Cinder with half of the powers of the Fall Maiden is Low 7-C?

With the full power of Amber she scale from the Grimm Dragon and that's fine, but half of 1,2 kilotons is 600 tons, so shouldn't half power Cinder be MCB+?

To put it in mathematical terms:

Cinder's power on her own = X

Amber's power = 2Y

Half power Cinder = X + Y

We know that X + 2Y= 1200 tons -> X= 1200 - 2Y

So Half Power Cinder = 1200 - 2Y + Y = 1200 - Y

Unless Amber's full power was at most 400 tons and Cinder's base was at least 800, Half power Cinder wouldn't be Small Town level.

Simply put, this would be absurd because in this case they wouldn't have needed an ambush to defeat Amber and Cinder could have simply stomped her without any problem, and there is nothing suggesting that Cinder is that strong on her own anyway.

This would affect both half power Cinder and Glynda, seeing how they were somewhat equal during their battle.

 

[Kaltias]

Whoops, posted it in Q&A. Can someone move it to the content revision board?

 

[Kaltias]

Bump

 

[Gemmysaur]

Moved on the OPs request.

 

[Kaltias]

Thank you Gemmy

 

[Kaltias]

Dumb question, but which is the meaning of OP?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Should be original poster, but I never really checked to confirm.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

I'm.....Honestly not sure why.

 

[Kaltias]

Edit: This was added to the original post

To put it in mathematical terms:

Cinder's power on her own = X

Amber's power = 2Y

Half power Cinder = X + Y

We know that X + 2Y= 1200 tons -> X= 1200 - 2Y

So Half Power Cinder = 1200 - 2Y + Y = 1200 - Y

Unless Amber's full power was at most 400 tons and Cinder's base was at least 800, Half power Cinder wouldn't be Small Town level.

Simply put, this would be absurd because in this case they wouldn't have needed an ambush to defeat Amber and Cinder could have simply stomped her without any problem, and there is nothing suggesting that Cinder is that strong on her own anyway.

 

[Morlock435]

Yeah that formula seems right to me, but honestly base cinder did seem somewhat close to Amber, in the fight amber completely shrugged of emerald and mercury's attacks, but Cinder was shown to be doing damage to amber throughout. Looking back on the fight she was pretty much the only one to hurt amber at all. It's just emerald' s semblance was helping in the fight and mercury I guess was just another target to distract her. Examples of amber being affected by Cinder would be those glass shards she created knocking amber out of the air, and those lava dust arrows shattering ambers aura.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I don't know about the current reasoning, but in season 4 they state that Cinder should have had no problem beating experienced silver eyed warriors even in base (this is why her allies were ridiculing her so much), and she only lost to Ruby's fledgling silver eyes because of a weakness of the fall maiden.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Question, would this downgrade other RWBY characters?

 

[Morlock435]

It would probably downgrade everyone besides ozpin, ruby with silver eyes, the grimm dragon, and cinder with full fall maiden powers. But I'm fairly confident that Cinder is close to amber.

 

[Morlock435]

Actually if the downgrade does go through Qrow MIGHT not be downgraded due to his fight with Tyrian but that could be debateable depending on how powerful we determine Tyrian to be, but the way the people in Salems inner circle act i feel like they are on Cinders with maiden power's level.

 

[Thebluedash]

She seemed comparable to Mercury and Emerald pre-maiden powers. With half of the Maiden's powers she easily fought Ruby during that one fight and nearly killed her. Which makes think she is on a different level than Ruby Rose (MCB) at that time.

 

[Kaltias]

@Morlock

If they were comparable, you have X=600 and Y=600. Which leads to having half power Cinder at 900 tons, which is MCB+

@Gargoyle

This doesn't actually downgrade anyone but Cinder because the top tiers all scale from Cinder with the full powers anyway.

Salem's inner circle scale from Cinder, Qrow scale from Tyrian, and Oz's inner circle scale from Qrow

@Blahblah9755

The thing is that this way we would end up with base Cinder = Maiden Cinder, which doesn't really makes sense

@Blue

Being MCB+ would be enough to do that though. If we use the estimate made previously, Cinder would still be multiple times stronger than Ruby. I'd say that "at least MCB+" would be more appropriate.

 

[Thebluedash]

Sounds reasonable I suppose.

 

[Kaltias]

Do I need more input to edit the page or that's enough?

 

[Thebluedash]

I mean this seems rather straightforward so you can go edit the page.

 

[Blahblah9755]

@Kaltias, No it wouldn't, how do you reach that conclusion? Just because both are powerful enough to beat silver eyes Ruby, but one has a weakness to her powers doesn't make them equals.

 

[Kaltias]

@Blahblah

We can't scale her from Silver Eyes because the silver eyes are useless against those who aren't Grimm/Maidens. So beating an experienced silver eyes warrior is effectively the equivalent of defeating an experienced Huntsman/Huntress

Also if we did we would end up with:

Half power Cinder > Silver eyes > Grimm Dragon = Full power Cinder

 

[Kaltias]

Should i remove "Equal in power to Glynda Goodwitch" from the reasoning for the stats? It makes it a bit redundant, given that Glynda scales from full power Cinder anyway

 

[Gargoyle_1]

I don't think Cinder will be the only one to be downgraded here.

 

[Kaltias]

Salem and Tyrian scale from Cinder. Qrow scale from Tyrian. Winter scales from Qrow, and so does Ozpin. Only one that I'm not sure about is Glynda because Cinder matched her with half of the maiden powers

 

[Thebluedash]

You should probably go ask some more staff members who watches RWBY to reply to this.

Like Ryukama or Everlasting.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

They scale to full power Cinder, problem is Half Cinder tied against Glynda, yet her and her goons got forced back by Qrow.

 

[Kaltias]

Actually during their first battle Cinder fled.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

True, but she still easily destroyed attacks from a low7C unless Glynda is 8A

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, Glynda also easily overpowered Cinder's attacks 10 seconds earlier. That fight isn't the best thing in the word to scale

 

[Ryukama]

Kaltias appears to make sense to me. The math of halving it would be 8-A+, which would still be consistent with her being significantly above some of the other 8-As. I'm good with whatever Blue and Ever are fine with as well.

 

[Kaltias]

@Ryu

What's your opinion about the issue of Glynda possibly not scaling from full power Cinder but only from half power Cinder?

 

[Ryukama]

If she only scales to half power Cinder, make her 8-A+ as well.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, the issue is who she should be scaled from. On one hand, she fought half power Cinder and they were somewhat equally matched. On the other one, she should be still comparable to Oz's inner circle, who scales from full power Cinder, because Qrow is a member of Oz's inner circle, and he fought Tyrian, who is a member of Salem's inner circle, and they scale from full power Cinder.

(This one will be my last reply until tomorrow because it's 23:20)

 

[Ryukama]

If Glynda is meant to be comparable to Full Power Cinder, her having a hard time with Half Power Cinder may be considered as PIS. I'd like to hear what Blue and Ever would have to say though.

Good night.

 

[Thebluedash]

If Glynda is comparable to Qrow and such and Half Power Cinder gave Glynda trouble. Wouldn't that mean that Half Powered Cinder was that strong? And when she gained the full maiden power, she became stronger than Glynda and such. Seeing as she defeated Ozpin during their fight with full power.

 

[Ryukama]

I suppose so. So what would be your suggested tiers for them then?

 

[Kaltias]

@Blue

The problem is that if we consider both as valid we end up having:

Glynda = Qrow = Tiryan = Full Power Cinder >>>>>>>> Half Power Cinder = Glynda. And I do think that Oz should scale from Full power Cinder, he was defeated but it was a good fight. He wasn't stomped like Pyrrha

 

[Thebluedash]

How about we change it a bit, we have no idea if Glynda is as strong as the others. She might be as strong as Half Powered Cinder sure thing, but it does not mean she's as strong as the inner circle. Just because you're let in on a secret or a group doesn't mean you're as strong as the rest. Its like saying I was put as the assistant for soccer team, but it doesn't mean I'm as good as the rest.

 

[Thebluedash]

So the whole thing would be more like Glynda = Half Power Cinder <<< Qrow = Ozpin < Full Power Cinder.

 

[Kaltias]

So you think that Glynda should be downgraded to "at least MCB+" as Half Power Cinder? Sounds alright to me