Characters scaled from Katana and Spider-Man need to have their statistics revised

[Not_Icarus]

Do all symbiotes get High levels of regen via scaling from Carnage.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Carnage is like well above Venom who is in turn well above Spider-Man.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I don't think so. Carnage is explicitly a mutant symbiote and is superior to the others so unless the others have similar feats we can't quite use it

 

[Antvasima]

You are correct. MagicKick is correct, Zark is also correct. Everyone is correct here. However the thing is, there is no possible way to make Marvel and DC "consistent" in anyway. We just have to decide the best ratings for the characters.

I agree with Spino. We will have to try to find some rational middle ground solution. We cannot scale Spider-Man to the Tri-Sentinel or Firelord, but not to bullets or lamp posts either.

I think that Luke Cage has a calculated Small Town level+ durability feat that we can scale him and similarly powerful characters from, and Morlun apparently wihstood a nuclear explosion once, so if somebody calculates that feat as well, maybe we can continue to keep the Spider-Man level characters at Low 7-C?

Also, let's not forget to find calculated feats for the Batman level DC Comics characters to scale from as well.

 

[MagicKick]

I like how you mention that Spider-Man needs direct feats. So cap is considering multi city block level because he KOd Deadpool who survived that level of attack only twice (not very consistent is it?) but apparently we need to show Peter nuking an entire city.

You all keep saying "show better feats". But when we do show those feats you are all like "they're outliers so we cannot use them"

Luke Cage and Venom surviving a nuke isn't an outlier. But showing Spider-Man harming and drawing blood from characters similar to that durability (including Morlun and Venom) somehow that is an outlier.

For people who say "we need consistency" y'all are not very consistent yourselves are you now?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I agree with Spider-Man being stronger than Captain America, cuz the comics clearly depict him so. If there are higher direct feats then those can be used.

 

[MagicKick]

I agree with Spino. We will have to try to find some rational middle ground solution. We cannot scale Spider-Man to the Tri-Sentinel or Firelord, but not to bullets or lamp posts either.

I think that Luke Cage has a calculated Small Town level+ durability feat that we can scale him and similarly powerful characters from, and Morlun apparently wihstood a nuclear explosion once, so if somebody calculates that feat as well, maybe we can continue to keep the Spider-Man level characters at Low 7-C?

Also, let's not forget to find calculated feats for the Batman level DC Comics characters to scale from as well.


Why can't we use the tri sentinel feat? It happened recently and it isn't much of an outlier. If you're wondering Cosmic Spidey had trouble taking it down because it was amped by magic (i think Loki but don't quote me on that). I still think it's valid seeing how in the newest instance the tri sentinel was not amped.

 

[Antvasima]

The Tri-Sentinel was almost on par with 4-B Captain Universe Spider-Man. It was created, but not amplified, by magic. I would appreciate if we could focus on more reasonable feats, such as harming Venom and Morlun, who can tank low level nuclear explosions. That way we can get somewhere instead of going in circles.

 

[AguilaR101]

And Carnage's town level durability feat only applies to... well.. the durability of Carnage.

That feat is not legit for the reasons given by *podonkos in the blog, it also pretends a bloodlusted MFTL character just felt like going at MHS speeds for some reason, it is hiding the outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to find scans for the Venom and Morlun nuclear explosion feats so they can be calculated?

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Ant For Morlun.

Here's him taking missles and such? Here's where it states he took vibranium-core nuclear-tipped shells without stopping or being bothered. Here's the full panel of the previous one.

Venom's feat was linked somewhere above, but I forgot where. I think Huesito linked it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you. I am not sure if the nuclear bullets are quantifiable though.

 

[SuperAPM]

I disagree with scaling Spidey to Morlun. Unless there's any other instance of them fighting, every instance shows Morlun being significantly stronger than Spidey

Here he just no-sells all of Spideys punches https://puu.sh/hyGoE/37537e089f.jpg

Here Spidey only does marginally better, but no indication he actually did any damage https://imgur.com/a/qm0th

This one even shows Spidey breaking his hands just by punching him whilst Morlun doesn't take a scratch https://imgur.com/a/jtC3v

The only time he caused him to bleed or had any sort of advantage was when he had help from Ezekiel https://imgur.com/a/oSEBi

Or when he was already significantly weakened and getting weaker with each new assault https://imgur.com/a/ynY4a

 

[Not_Icarus]

Regular Spiderman isn't equal to Morlun but him with The Other is .

 

[SuperAPM]

Right, I think that's reasonable enough

 

[Not_Icarus]

So is Spiderman Low 7-C or Low 7-C+

 

[SuperAPM]

Well neither for the time being

 

[Not_Icarus]

Can't wait for 7-C Spiderman VS 7-C Raiden (MGR) if he does get a 7-C Key lol.

 

[Not_Icarus]

and doesn't Doctor Octopus have a 8-A+ or at least close to it feat and Spiderman's definitely superior to him and his claws.

 

[Hellbeast1]

HE does

 

[Not_Icarus]

On second thought, I might as well make a Raiden VS Spiderman thread right now but with speed unequal lol

 

[KLOL506]

I also wonder why his Symbiote-related weaknesses aren't mentioned.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I believe in the comics the major symboites have developed resistances to loud sound and intense heat.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I think they have (I mean Carnage tanked re entry if I remember so there's that)

 

[The_Impress]

I still think giving base Spidey 7-C at peak makes sense, since the writers tend to make him randomly stomp his entire rogue's gallery if he's depicted as being angry af. It's not even that major a jump anyhow, and will help to explain away any future instances of him pulling off insane scaling

 

[Not_Icarus]

I'm personally ok with Possibly 7-C at peak imo.

 

[AguilaR101]

and doesn't Doctor Octopus have a 8-A+ or at least close to it feat and Spiderman's definitely superior to him and his claws.

8-A is for his arms dura only and it's noted to be peak effort for spiderman to break them.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we get Venom's nuclear explosion feat calculated, and place Spider-Man at "At least 8-A" for the time being?

 

[ShakeResounding]

8-A is for his arms dura only and it's noted to be peak effort for spiderman to break them.

That was after Doc Ock upgraded them to Carbonadium, which is just below Adamantium.

 

[ShakeResounding]

So should we get Venom's nuclear explosion feat calculated, and place Spider-Man at "At least 8-A" for the time being?

This could work as of now.

Although Spider-Man > Captain America > Black Knight = 8-A that's 26 tons away from 8-A+. Would that be enough for Spidey to possibly breach into it?

 

[Not_Icarus]

We still scale Spiderman to Luke Cage though.

 

[Antvasima]

@ShakeResounding

I think that "At least 8-A" is probably safer, especially as an 8-A feat from the Black Knight seems like an outlier.

@Not Icarus

Luke Cage is considerably stronger than Spider-Man nowadays. He used to be physically weaker though.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Is it an outlier tho? I mean isn't he already in a similar tier to Cap and BP?

 

[AguilaR101]

I think at least 8-A for spiderman and co works upscaling from Cap and the like.

the aforementioned Doc Ocks arm durability calc that would put spiderman close to 8-A+ shouldn't be used yet unless it is made into a blog here and scrutinized by our calc group members.

 

[Antvasima]

@Hellbeast1

Well, more like comparable to Daredevil, but point taken. It seems considerably higher than his standard feats though.

 

[Not_Icarus]

What about Spidey at his peak during his base form and when he's enraged and no longer holding back, and how he can fight the Morlun with The Other, doesn't these make his Low 7-C keys make more sense. And doesn't even the rating At Least 8-A even imply that he's also possibly still a Low 7-C.

 

[Antvasima]

The Other is not just a standard rage power-up though.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I wasn't necessarily only talking about only about The Other and more about him at his base form's peak being much stronger than his usual current Low 7-C self here also didn't Miles fairly easily kill Captain America of the Ultimate universe? 616 Spiderman is definitely stronger than him.

 

[Antvasima]

Spider-Man is officially far weaker than The Rhino, regardless how angry he is. Marvel simply does not care about power scaling.

 

[Huesito88]

Black Knight holds back a lot because of the curse in his Sword and as well as moral at times. Black Knight has sparred with Cap many many times before, gave him a good fight while bloodlusted and got mind controlled where he fought him another time, beat Deadpool twice rather quickly, fought Wolverine, fought Raza, Beyonder cloned Black Knight and Cap and made them fight each other where they stalemated, and gave the Avengers trouble once. As well as Bloodwraith a manifestation of the Ebony Blade gave trouble to the Avengers twice and Dane managed to give him a good fight before being beaten by him. He also has a nice supporting feat for such a rating in the form of fighting pre 2006 Nitro in the late 1980's.

Edit He also survived a direct hit from Akron, fought Grey Gargoyle, fought Killer Shrike, considered a threat to Dracula so he tricked him into having a different sword to weaken the Black Knight, and fought Quicksilver in a swordsmanship match who wasn't using his speed, but was mad and was trying to beat him.