Chara Conceptual Manipulation

[Zhex10]

1. When you grab the Real Knife and Locket, I think it should be noted that they are likely both the same as worn dagger and heart locket..

What this means:

Chara is able to change and manipulate the descriptions, name, and ATK and DEF of objects in the game.


Dont know what this could account for... Im leaning towards Conceptual Manipulation as ATK and DEF are both concepts and Chara was able to easily change and manipulate their physical stats.

 

[PaChi2]

You... know what game mechanics means? right?

 

[Zhex10]

You... know what game mechanics means? right?

the fact that we still consider it as the fact that chara has 99 atk and def with it and then scaled undyne the same way on par means its not entirely game mechanics

 

[SITHISIT]

umm... you're joking.. correct?

Even without game mechanics this would at best be statistics amplification

 

[Kaltias]

That's..... literally just a reflection of Chara's murderous intent. When Frisk see the knife, they see it as an object that can be used to cut plants, while Chara see it as a weapon to murder others.

It's not even statistical amplification, let alone conceptual manipulation.

 

[SITHISIT]

Yes, don't know why this person thought so..

However I would consider it so as even though it's the same thing Chara was still able to amplify it via that. However my knowledge on Statistical Amplification is very weak so

 

[Kaltias]

My memory of Undertale is rusty because I haven't played it in a while, but I always thought that weapons aren't powerful by themselves, they are powerful because their wielder is using Determination. So Chara probably has already stat amping included as Determination, now that I think about it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

My memory of Undertale is rusty because I haven't played it in a while, but I always thought that weapons aren't powerful by themselves, they are powerful because their wielder is using Determination.

This is the implication, yes.

 

[SITHISIT]

if we even left out game mechanics it's not even close to conceptual manipulation

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Riiingo and Kaltias.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

I have one more extra thing to add about Chara.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Azzy.

However, Chara obviously has some degree of Conceptual Influence since they're a conceptual being, and thus can affect things on a conceptual level.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Chara also has Apathy or Empathic Immunity: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Apathy

Papyrus couldn't convince Chara to be good and Sans couldn't convince Chara to spare him (I just wanted to point that out). Also, every monster who was showing good emotions to Chara and even though they were trying to spare Chara, Chara immediately killed them w/o hesitation nor a change of expression at all. Chara also killed Flowey who convinced the Player to make Frisk murderous to eventually become Chara in the first place.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

....Words =/= Empathic Manipulation

 

[Kaltias]

@Magi

That's just another reflection of Chara's personality though

 

[Magi_Hussie]

If Chara wasn't immune to emotions or suppress emotions, then they would of just hestiated a lot when killing the UT monsters.

 

[Kaltias]

Chara isn't a "she". Also, no. Even real life sociopaths can kill someone without any remorse

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Chara isn't a "she". Also, no. Even real life sociopaths can kill someone without any remorse

More reasons why Chara has Empathic Immunity is b/c Chara can't switch this off to stop their killing intention and they were never negatively & mentally affected by killing the entire Underground.

 

[PaChi2]

personality traits arent Powers or abilities.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

personality traits arent Powers or abilities.

Care to explain why this isn't related to "personality traits" in any way?: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Empathic_Manipulation

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Empathic Manipulation =/= Talking to someone and telling them "stop being violent"

Chara has shown no immunity (Or even resistance) to Empathic Manipulation

Lack of Remorse =/= Immunity to Empathic Manipulation, people in real life have shown no remorse for their actions, but that doesn't mean that Empathic Manipulation wouldn't work on them

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with JustSomeWeirdo.

 

[PaChi2]

Care to explain why this isn't related to "personality traits" in any way?: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Empathic_Manipulation

Chara is a bloodlusted psychopath. End of story, no superpower. Talking to a person and telling them "Hey guy, stop being so bad" isnt a power or ability.

Empathic manipulation is more related to what that little girl in Eragon had. And has nothing to do with Papyrus telling Chara to not be violent.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

We already established the words =/= Empathic Manipulation part but according to the limitations of Empathy: Defenseless against beings that have no emotions, such as robots or users of Apathy.

May be easily possessed by Spirits and Ghosts, as they are beings bound by emotions.´╗┐

There's nothing the game that saids nor shows Chara doesn't have any resistance to Empathic Manipulation in any way. It shouldn't really fair if the character needs to be stated in the game that they're immune or resistant to it since they already shown this resistance/immunity already in the game. If you don't agree w/ Empathic Immunity, then make it Empathic Resistance.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Like we've said above, no resistance was shown

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps we should close this thread?

 

[Kaltias]

Matt has a good point about Chara having Conceptual Manipulation due to being a conceptual entity (I don't know if that's enough though)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I feel like embodying an abstract concept is not necessarily the same as having control over that concept. Like the Warp Gods (idk if this is a bad example, my knowledge of their nature comes from ITEHATTSD) are embodiments of change, fate, stagnation, pleasure and pain, love, honour, violence, etc, but they are all created by the thoughts and feelings of beings with souls - while they embody these things, they aren't in control of them, which was the emperor's whole thing in trying to stop them believing in gods to stop giving them power.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

@Monarch

But....The Chaos Gods all have Conceptual Manipulation on their pages..... also my response to this thread as a whole:


What is this? I Don't even....

 

[Antvasima]

I will close this thread then.