Changing the Versus Thread One-Shot Gap

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Maybe give AP one shot multipliers for certain parts of the body.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Prop: That still doesn't work; the calc linked in the OP is about 18x above our average human ratings, and is able to be done by a real human, yet real humans cannot kill each other with punches to the torso.

Colonel: We don't have a set speed required for a Speed Blitz, as explained on that page.

Our human values just don't make any sense. I'm surely not just durable enough to take half of a dude's punch.

Honestly, just take the max value needed to break one's skin/bones in the torso, and update the whole thing

 

[Livinmeme]

Our human values just don't make any sense. I'm surely not just durable enough to take half of a dude's punch.

Honestly, just take the max value needed to break one's skin/bones in the torso, and update the whole thing

Nah, that means you are made of glass

 

[KLOL506]

Our human values just don't make any sense. I'm surely not just durable enough to take half of a dude's punch.

Honestly, just take the max value needed to break one's skin/bones in the torso, and update the whole thing

I don't think you even need to go that far TBF. Internal organ damage should do most of the trick.

 

[Therefir]

However, that's just incorrect. Ordinary humans punching at ordinary human speeds can get decently into 9-C (this is also established, albeit without a source, in our Superhuman Physical Characteristics page), but they can't one-shot ordinary people by striking their torso. They'd need to hit weak points to even knock someone out in one blow, let alone kill them.

About the calc itself, I don't think the entire arm weight is moving at 11 m/s, only the fist at most, not to mention that's just a baseless assumption made by the calculator, the same person who thought falling 3 meters on your feet was a superhuman feat.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Why not just completely remove the one shot gap? Since one shots are not a generalized thing across all of fiction.

 

[Propellus]

Why not just completely remove the one shot gap? Since one shots are not a generalized thing across all of fiction.

Not sure if that's a good idea

 

[Greatsage13th]

Not sure if that's a good idea

If someone were 10 times stronger than another person then when that person blocks a punch from someone 10 times stronger than himself. The one on the other end of punch would likely get knocked unconscious while suffering from major internal organ damage rather than having a fist bruteforced through the chest or the abdomen.

 

[Pikaman]

Why not just completely remove the one shot gap? Since one shots are not a generalized thing across all of fiction.

I’d much rather we didn’t, guidelines on One-Shots are useful for more than just finding One-Shots. If I’m looking to make a match and find out the AP gap is ~6x, I know that’s so close to a one shot that the match will likely not work, remove the one-shot standards and that guideline evaporates, with the number of new stomp threads being made rapidly increasing

 

[Pikaman]

Also, wouldn’t this be better suited for Staff Discussion?

 

[Greatsage13th]

I’d much rather we didn’t, guidelines on One-Shots are useful for more than just finding One-Shots. If I’m looking to make a match and find out the AP gap is ~6x, I know that’s so close to a one shot that the match will likely not work, remove the one-shot standards and that guideline evaporates, with the number of new stomp threads being made rapidly increasing

Yeah, but we tend to have over a quarter of the total characters on the wiki that survives attacks from people who are more than 7 times stronger than them.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, but we tend to have over a quarter of the total characters on the wiki that survives attacks from people who are more than 7 times stronger than them.

Surviving =/= being able to still be combat ready

 

[Greatsage13th]

Surviving =/= being able to still be combat ready

We are arguing about one shots here are we?

 

[Greatsage13th]

What I'm trying to say is, just because you can tank an attack or multiple attacks from a 7A, doesn't mean you have 7A durability.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

What I'm trying to say is, just because you can tank an attack or multiple attacks from a 7A, doesn't mean you have 7A durability.

Huh? I think this is missing some logic. The word "tank" implies you're not really dying from the hits, but vnñnnñjjjjjvnsjhchchchc

 

[KLOL506]

What I'm trying to say is, just because you can tank an attack or multiple attacks from a 7A, doesn't mean you have 7A durability.

I'm sorry, what?

Do you even understand what "tank" means? It literally means moving through attacks like a battle tank without being affected in the slightest whatsoever. Why would that not make you scale to your durability?

Raiden from MGS has 7-C AP, and yet of course, good old Armstrong with Nanomachines tanked all of his punches in the first round. That's blatant grounds for scaling.

I think your confusing this with "surviving" attacks.

 

[KLOL506]

Tanking and surviving attacks can vary wildly. But if you survive the attack and are still able to fight on equal grounds with your foe without having suffered any critical life-threatening wounds, that is absolutely grounds for scaling to your durability.

Tanking on the other hand means you can literally take the attack into your body and not be harmed the slightest by it.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Tanking and surviving attacks can vary wildly. But if you survive the attack and are still able to fight on equal grounds with your foe without having suffered any critical life-threatening wounds, that is absolutely grounds for scaling to your durability.

Tanking on the other hand means you can literally take the attack into your body and not be harmed the slightest by it.

I mean...what does it mean to "one shot" a person?

 

[KLOL506]

I mean...what does it mean to "one shot" a person?

To cripple them to the point where they are no longer able to fight properly and might need medical attention to recover.

For example, a peak boxer's punch at full power to the torso of the average Joe will not only absolutely floor him, it will also most definitely severely damage his organs to the point where immediate medical attention may be necessary to save his life.

 

[Greatsage13th]

To cripple them to the point where they are no longer able to fight properly and might need medical attention to recover.

For example, a peak boxer's punch at full power to the torso of the average Joe will not only absolutely floor him, it will also most definitely severely damage his organs to the point where immediate medical attention may be necessary to save his life.

So the term "one shot" doesn't exactly mean one shot, as in one hit to kill someone. Huh?

 

[KLOL506]

So the term "one shot" doesn't exactly mean one shot, as in one hit to kill someone. Huh?

Yes. That'd be left explicitly for one-hit-kill.

 

[Pikaman]

Huh? I think this is missing some logic. The word "tank" implies you're not really dying from the hits, but vnñnnñjjjjjvnsjhchchchc

 

[Greatsage13th]

Yes. That'd be left explicitly for one-hit-kill.

So for anyone that is more than 7 times weaker than somebody else. How many hits would it take to harm em?

 

[Pikaman]

So for anyone that is more than 7 times weaker than somebody else. How many hits would it take to harm em?

I’m pretty sure in cases of a character being => 7.5x weaker in regards to AP compared to their opponent we consider them physically incapable of harming them through AP based methods

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This isn't for discussing the various attack groups such as Electricity Vs Heat Vs Blunt force trauma; which Greatsage13th's argument only works if that's the topic. But withstanding an X tier punch to the gut or face and taking moderate damage at worst is absolutely X tier durability.

Any, please stick to the topic about the numeral multiplier being the Vs Thread requirement of a oneshot.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Also, wouldn’t this be better suited for Staff Discussion?

This?

 

[Pikaman]

This?

This thread, it’s about changing a major standard on vs threads, would’ve thought it belonged in Staff Discussion

 

[KLOL506]

This isn't for discussing the various attack groups such as Electricity Vs Heat Vs Blunt force trauma; which Greatsage13th's argument only works if that's the topic. But withstanding an X tier punch to the gut or face and taking moderate damage at worst is absolutely X tier durability.

Uhhhhhh, we were discussing only blunt-force trauma attacks tho. Not once were elemental-related attacks ever mentioned here.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

This thread, it’s about changing a major standard on vs threads, would’ve thought it belonged in Staff Discussion

Yeah, I was just bumping your message ^^

 

[Pikaman]

Yeah, I was just bumping your message ^^

Oh, right, thanks!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Uhhhhhh, we were discussing only blunt-force trauma attacks tho. Not once were elemental-related attacks ever mentioned here.

Yes, I know. I was talking to Greatsage and it was a response to this post specifically.

What I'm trying to say is, just because you can tank an attack or multiple attacks from a 7A, doesn't mean you have 7A durability.

I know what you're talking about and supporting when you've been saying KLOL, but I'm just saying that his statement only holds up when talking about the various irrelevant types of attacks.

 

[KLOL506]

I know what you're talking about and supporting when you've been saying KLOL, but I'm just saying that his statement only holds up when talking about the various irrelevant types of attacks.

I think he more or less confused the two words "surviving" and "tanking".

 

[Propellus]

I mean, One-Shotting can mean literally anything, either pasting you into a red slushie or just straight up rendering you out of being active in combat

 

[Greatsage13th]

I mean, One-Shotting can mean literally anything, either pasting you into a red slushie or just straight up rendering you out of being active in combat

People often think of the former instead of the latter. I'm not the only one who thinks that getting hit with an 7.5x greater than your durability would turn you into a bloody paste.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I think he more or less confused the two words "surviving" and "tanking".

They are the same in my subjective viewpoint.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Funniest shit I've ever seen

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I mean, One-Shotting can mean literally anything, either pasting you into a red slushie or just straight up rendering you out of being active in combat

I think we should have both.
A one-shot gap of a character's body exploding from a punch (ala Saitama), which should be easy to calc, just take the materials of the human body and calculate how much energy would be necessary to break it, then compare it to the average punch. Or the human durability, which is currently severely underrated. My body will not break from a mere +300 J punch.

And a one-shot gap for severely harming one's body to the point where they cannot fight.
We would have to establish how much that would take, breaking most bones? Calculate the force necessary to do that then compare to a agreeable human durability.
Ripping the muscle tissue of most of the body? Idem.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I think we should have both.
A one-shot gap of a character's body exploding from a punch (ala Saitama), which should be easy to calc, just take the materials of the human body and calculate how much energy would be necessary to break it, then compare it to the average punch. Or the human durability, which is currently severely underrated. My body will not break from a mere +300 J punch.

And a one-shot gap for severely harming one's body to the point where they cannot fight.
We would have to establish how much that would take, breaking most bones? Calculate the force necessary to do that then compare to a agreeable human durability.
Ripping the muscle tissue of most of the body? Idem.

Sounds wunderbar

 

[Pikaman]

And a one-shot gap for severely harming one's body to the point where they cannot fight.
We would have to establish how much that would take, breaking most bones? Calculate the force necessary to do that then compare to a agreeable human durability.
Ripping the muscle tissue of most of the body? Idem.

On paper this seems good but can you apply this to anime protag #23819 who’s kept on fighting through cracked ribs, a few shattered fingers and a fractured skull?