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Changes to 3-A in the tiering system (Staff only)

Because time itself is only one dimension. Time isn't the "Fourth dimension", there's just three space dimensions and one time dimension. If space isn't being affected, then only one dimension (time) is being affected.
 
Timelines generally equate to universes and by doing shit to those you take the other 3 spatial dimensions with you, though I'm pretty sure there's a couple of low 2-Cs out there with "created time" as their justification.
 
Tiering System:2-C: Low Multiverse level

  • Universe level+: ("Low 2-C") This is for characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of a single universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.
Yeah, a timeline is 4-D. I don't time would ever 1-D at all.
 
I believe the Tier High 3-A removal was already acepted in the other CRT.
 
I know that a timeline is 4D, but time is only 1D.
 
No he's saying that time itself is only one dimension, which is correct. A temporal dimension isn't instantly equivalent to 4 spatial ones. Space-TimeÔëáTime, and a Timeline generally equates to the former.
 
I don't think I ever saw a feat where destroying time was the feat was 1-D.
 
@Eli That's cause destroying time rarely means destroying a single dimensional axis, which doesn't even make sense without math or concept bases powers. It usually just refers to destroying the timeline.
 
Andytrenom said:
@Eli That's cause destroying time rarely means destroying a single dimensional axis, which doesn't even make sense without math or concept bases powers. It usually just refers to destroying the timeline.
Click to expand...
This is my point, @Andy, time destruction is usally associated with timeline or worst is a space-time hax. For 1-D time destruction feat, I visited and edited of thousands of profiles but I never saw it at all.
 
@Elizhaa @Andy I'm not familiar with the character, but Wokistan said that Saint-14 destroyed time and had this treated as a hax ability, presumably because it was just a 1-D feat.
 
Agnaa said:
@Elizhaa @Andy I'm not familiar with the character, but Wokistan said that Saint-14 destroyed time and had this treated as a hax ability, presumably because it was just a 1-D feat.
Click to expand...
Currently on High 3-A Tiering System section:

  • Also take note that we consider most small scale time-space abilities as hax, not as AP.
So, Saint-14's feat would be classify as hax.
 
Agreed, but even if it was considered as AP it would only be 1-D (in my opinion from what little I've heard).
 
I think you need to watch this for abit if you can wrap your head around it, before deciding what changes we wanna make


Imagining the Fourth Dimension
Imagining the Fourth dimension


Because the 4th Dimension Isn't Spatial?
Because the 4th Dimension Isn't Spatial?
 
This thread has turned so long and convoluted that we probably need a new staff thread with a good summary in the first post, that is marked "STAFF ONLY", in order to proceed and get anywhere.
 
Yes, that and how we should change the standards for 4-D feats of less than universal scale.
 
As I said in the last thread, I think Low 2-C should be rewritten in the style of High 2-A to keep consistency with other tiers, going from this:

This is for characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of a single universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.
To (changed emboldened):

This is for characters who are four-dimensional, and/or can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of a single universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.
I'm not exactly sure how many currently High 3-A characters would count for Low 2-C under this definition, if any, but I think the tiering system should account for 4-D characters, as it does for 5-D, 2-D, 1337-D, etc.
 
Agnaa said:
Agreed, but even if it was considered as AP it would only be 1-D (in my opinion from what little I've heard).
Click to expand...
Time itself is indeed 1-D yes

Time without space is something meaningless, same for space itself
 
It may be best to wait until Ultima Reality has performed his revision for dimensional tiering, as fiction recurrently does not treat higher-dimensional characters as superior.
 
Even if no fiction currently on the site would have a 4-D character under that definition, isn't it still worthwhile for our tiering system to cover it? A piece of fiction could come around that treats higher-dimensional characters as superior and has a 4-D one.
 
Sorry for saying this so late into the revision but, is there an actual reason for 3-A and high 3-A to be the same tier?

We differentiate between an infinite and finite scale for other tiers (2-B and 2-A, 1-B and high 1-B) so am I missing some important reasoning behind this change? If so, sorry but if not, I don't think we should take up such a big task of editing for an unnecessary change.
 
@Agnaa

I suppose that you are correct.
 
This is probably the wrong place, yes. Sorry.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
SCP-4444 is 4-D, I think.
Click to expand...
I think someone was going to bring up issues with using SCP's statements of dimensionality after Ultima's revisions, but SCP-4444 might get around that if it's shown to have a large degree of control over reality.
 
When are we finally doing this, because I'm free now.
 
I need this answered before the revisions begin

Andytrenom said:
Sorry for saying this so late into the revision but, is there an actual reason for 3-A and high 3-A to be the same tier?

We differentiate between an infinite and finite scale for other tiers (2-B and 2-A, 1-B and high 1-B) so am I missing some important reasoning behind this change? If so, sorry but if not, I don't think we should take up such a big task of editing for an unnecessary change.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, I'm not sure if merging those tiers are good ideas either. The only part that was agreed was to get rid of the "4-D structures less than universal" since that makes no sense at all. But I think Infinite sized universes and Finite sized universes might still have distinctions. This includes various ancient mythologies that have literally infinite sized flat oceans for example.
 
It was an ok prospect to go along with changing tier names, since that's off the table it doesn't seem as good
 
Hmm. It seems like we may not perform any changes after all then.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, I'm not sure if merging those tiers are good ideas either. The only part that was agreed was to get rid of the "4-D structures less than universal" since that makes no sense at all. But I think Infinite sized universes and Finite sized universes might still have distinctions. This includes various ancient mythologies that have literally infinite sized flat oceans for example.
Click to expand...
I hope that I'd sufficiently explained why "4-D structures less than universal" makes sense and is necessary in the tiering system.

It seems to essentially be for 4-D beings that haven't shown to affect an entire timeline, like how characters can be High 2-A via being 5-D even if they haven't been shown to affect an entire multiverse. Removing this would make 4-D the only dimension number that is Unknown by default.
 
The point was Ultima Reality's tiering system mentioning that we need more elaborate context than X-dimensional or upper dimensional planes to qualify for Tier 2 or above tiering systems. Hyperbolic Time Chamber could be interpreted as an example of a "4-D structure less than universal", but destroying it is just a low end Planet level feat; that feat alone clearly isn't High 3-A.
 
@Dark Yes, but even after those revisions the most that a verse will be required to meet for dimensional statements to be accepted as they currently are, is a statement that higher dimensions are superior to lower ones. If a verse meets this requirement, 4 dimensions with no feats is the only number that would give them an Unknown rating.
 
It was decided that 4-Ds with qualitative superiority over 3-Ds would just become low 2-C and low 2-C's definition would be changed to accommodate them.

Personally, I don't see why this is necessary at all. Although I am not as invested in arguing against this as others seem to be in arguing for this.
 
I would appreciate if somebody can write a summary of how exactly we need to change our current Tiering System definition text.
 
You would have to elaborate/explain better. It doesn't seem like this is the right place to discuss the topic though.
 
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