Can Jugram Haschwalth survive existence erasure?

[JohnCenaNation]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3503497#387

So I'm currently having an agrument with someone in this battle thread if Jugram's The Balance can counter Existence Erasure. You know, Jugram gets erased from existence, but then The Balance suddenly saves his life by bringing him back to existence and erasing your opponent's existence in return? In-canon, Jugram has never shown to survive an abstract injuries, only physical. BakiHanma18 is making an argument by giving Jugram an ability that he never displayed, wouldn't this fall under no limits fallacy? The better question is, can Jugram survive existence erasure?

 

[BakiHanma18]

He sure can. As I've already explained, since the attack in question would be considered "bad luck", it would be reflected. I also already explained what the limits are...

 

[JohnCenaNation]

He sure can. As I've already explained, since the attack in question would be considered "bad luck", it would be reflected. I also already explained what the limits are...

Auswallen would like to say hi.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Auswallen would like to say hi.

K, now go back to the other thread and read why that argument is wrong

 

[Naeblis495]

you mean the Auswallen launched by SK yhwach , the same yhwach that can powernull like it's nobody's buisness from the future ?

 

[JohnCenaNation]

you mean the Auswallen launched by SK yhwach , the same yhwach that can powernull like it's nobody's buisness from the future ?

Yes.

 

[Naeblis495]

yeah , so you understand why it doesn't prove anything then ?

 

[JohnCenaNation]

yeah , so you understand why it doesn't prove anything then ?

BakiHanma18 say The Balace can counter Auswallen, and the only reason why it couldn't is because Jugram let it happen.

 

[BakiHanma18]

yeah , so you understand why it doesn't prove anything then ?

Ohhhhh true true, I believe Jugram let him take the power back, but it wouldn't matter either way with power null

 

[Choinoi]

Auswallen can say Bye... As far as this matter is concerned all you're doing is saying that one individual can't because another individual didn't. And that's not very Fractual.

 

[Naeblis495]

first off , he probably would let it happen , second , yhwach doesn't have to deal with The Balance in the first place as he can powernull it from the future , bypassing it completely .

 

[BakiHanma18]

Auswallen can say Bye... As far as this matter is concerned all you're doing is saying that one individual can't because another individual didn't. And that's not very Fractual.

Right? I tried to make mention earlier with "Appeal to Tradition", but you saw how that went

 

[BakiHanma18]

first off , he probably would let it happen , second , yhwach doesn't have to deal with The Balance in the first place as he can powernull it from the future , bypassing it completely .

Thought so, thanks for the input!

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Yhwach can power null but isn't that misfortune to be reflected by this logic. No it can't. Erasing Jugram also erases The Balance in any case.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Yhwach can power null but isn't that misfortune to be reflected by this logic.
No it can't. Erasing Jugram also erases The Balance in any case.

Thank you so much for the input!

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yhwach can power null but isn't that misfortune to be reflected by this logic. No it can't. Erasing Jugram also erases The Balance in any case.

But he wouldn't be able to stop a power null from the future, and Jugram can't be erased in the present due to the reverse

 

[Naeblis495]

Yhwach can power null but isn't that misfortune to be reflected by this logic.
No it can't. Erasing Jugram also erases The Balance in any case.

i wasn't really saying if jugram can deal with erasure or not ( i don't have the awnser) but that using SK yhwach's auswallen as an example that anything not physical can bypass it is kinda silly

 

[Choinoi]

Thank you so much for the input!

• Makes a thread to prove his point*

Strong evidence he is wrong 1 shred of evidence is in his favor

• Picks that one*

 

[Naeblis495]

also , considering jugram absolute devotion to yhwach , i don't think if he would consider the Auswallen as "misfortune"

 

[BakiHanma18]

also , considering jugram absolute devotion to yhwach , i don't think if he would consider the Auswallen as "misfortune"

Another point I didn't even think about

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Uh ..... how does one redirect the misfortune of having their bad luck redirection power nullified when ..... it is, by definition, nullified?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Uh...by this logic that would be the case. He can redirect any ability because it's classed as "misfortune".

Misfortune is bad luck or unfortunate events/condition. That should apply to anything negative that happens to Jugram.

Even without this you need to prove that the "luck" or whatever can bring Jugram back from not existing. He's only used the misfortune against soul attacks which are basically the equivalent of physical attacks but their bodies are made of soul particles for example they still display organs and blood. Existence erasure doesn't leave anything to be redirected.

Iirc The Balance is passive and Ashwalen should class as misfortune and it power-nulls the Sternritters it touches, Ashwalen that caught him off-guard wasn't reflected because he deactivated it to let Yhwach take him. I find that hard to believe.

Existence erasure would not only erase Jugram but the ability itself so even if this point didn't stand it's meaningless.

 

[BakiHanma18]

His The Balance is causality manipulation, so he wouldn't be able to reverse "bad luck" that hasn't happened yet

The EE reversal would come from his passive ability to change the opponent's good luck into bad luck, afflicting them with their own attack instead of Jugram, not the active ability of absorbing bad luck of being damaged and redirecting it

I don't see why it's that hard to believe, also there are 3 possible explanations: Jugram let him do it (he had The Almighty earlier in that fight, so he knew that was going to happen), he didn't consider "helping his king" to be misfortune, and it was likely nulled from the future with The Almighty

It shouldn't be able with the passive ability

 

[The4Godlike]

The Balance can have so many applications if you think about it.but Jugram never showed any of these, so in this site they probably won't accept these applications because he never showed them, would be NLF.

I mean for example, Jugram can destroy a stone and can give its bad luck to his opponents and his opponents would be destroyed instead.

Reviving from Existence Erasure is also an application that may happen, but unfortunately we can't give him that power because it would be NLF.(he never showed it i mean.)

 

[BakiHanma18]

The Balance can have so many applications if you think about it.but Jugram never showed any of these, so in this site they probably won't accept these applications because he never showed them, would be NLF.
I mean for example, Jugram can destroy a stone and can give its bad luck to his opponents and his opponents would be destroyed instead.

Reviving from Existence Erasure is also an application that may happen, but unfortunately we can't give him that power because it would be NLF.(he never showed it i mean.)

I see what you're saying, but since his power was given the definition of Causality Manipulation on this site, if it's deemed NLF, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot

I believe in the case of physical damage, it's scaled

He wouldn't have to revive. With the active part of The Balance, his Shield would get erased, not Jugram. With the passive aspect, the EE wouldn't even hit him, the effects would befall the user