Existence Erasure revision

[Phsccarvalho]

Hello, a few days ago I made a Thread of questions about the translation of part of the Castlevania: Reminiscence of the Divine Abyss novel. The issue was the part where it is said that using the power of dominance, Soma erased Death's existence. But that translation is wrong.

I posted the raw of this part of the novel on r/translators to confirm what the correct translation was. I posted and a user translated the raw. And in that translation, it also does not mention the "erasure of existence".
To check it out, here is the link — Translation by r/translators

And to reaffirm this translation, on the castlevaniadungeon website there is also a translation that does not mention the "erasure of existence".
Link — Castlevaniadungeon Translation (Translation Screenshot)

This makes sense, considering that the "Power of Dominance" has nothing to do with erasing something's existence, but with absorbing the souls of monsters, as with Death in Aria and Dawn.

Now the question is, how does this affect the verse? I think it will involve two things, at the very least there should be an exchange of references used in character profiles.

-------------------------------------------

The first is the matter of Death's High-Godly Regeneration.
Regeneration (High-Godly; Can bring itself back after being erased from existence while being the abstract concept of Death.[3])

The reference used is the part of the novel that mentions that she was erased from existence, only the translation is wrong and that never happened. So that reference has to be removed or replaced.

Only I don't know if this will change Death Regeneration. In this Wiki Death is considered an Abstract Existence type 1, being the literal concept of death. And I don't know if destroying her counts as destroying the concept itself, nor if she regenerates after that counts as High-Godly Regeneration. I think at the very least, the reference has to be changed, as it is a mistranslation and a feat that never existed.

-------------------------------------------

Another thing that I think will affect this part of Dracula's powers:
Existence Erasure (Dracula's magic can erase beings from existence,[30] which can extend to abstract beings[12])

In the second reference, the novel is used to say that Dracula's "EE" extends to abstract beings. But then again, it never did. That second reference has to be removed as well.

Whether that affects Dracula's "EE" level I don't know. Because he is the avatar of chaos and manipulates that magic, his power should affect beings like Death, since Death comes from Chaos I guess? I don't know.

If there is any plausible argument that Dracula's "EE" extends to abstract beings, then the reference has to be changed. Since the current one never happened.

-------------------------------------------

I would like to know the opinions of more experienced people on this Wiki to comment on this revision. If it affects more things from the verse, what changes and etc. As you may have noticed, I have a lot of questions about exactly how it's going to affect each thing.

Sorry for any grammatical errors, I'm not fluent in English so I'm using a translator to translate this text into English.

(Don't ask why Death is being referred to as "she" at times. Translation thing.)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I already think and then I agree

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree with Toby

 

[Theglassman12]

Do you have the japanese raws of the entire novel with you? I'd like to look over them.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Do you have the japanese raws of the entire novel with you? I'd like to look over them.

Unfortunately not. I just found this raw on castlevaniadungeon. In the castlevaniadungeon translation link, you will find another link where you have the first four raws of the novel, which was as far as this castlevaniadungeon user translated.
Link — Castlevaniadungeon Translation.

So you don't have to enter the link, I'll post this site that has the first four raws.
Link — First four raws

The translation of the novel that is used in the profiles is also from Castlevaniadungeon. But the user who translated didn't post the raws.

It would be really interesting to have all the raws, as the user translation that translated everything seems to fail at times. I haven't compared the translation of the two Castlevaniadungeon users to see if there are many differences.

 

[Theglassman12]

Well that sucks, I'd like to see what changed from the original full translation to current.

Either way there's something wrong with your translation you got, or the very least what that castlevaniadungeon translation has, it mention "he was able to defend himself" when that's not mentioned at all in the japanese raw. One translator I know went through the kanji and got this instead.

かつて 、 二 度 にわたり 蒼真 の 前 に 立ち塞がっ た 、 絶大 な 力 を 持つ 魔性 。 その 時 は 、 ドラキュラ の 魂 の 元 に 数多く の 魔物 達 の 魂 を 「 支配 」 し た 状態 だっ た から こそ 封滅 で き た ものの 、 力 は 疎か 武器 すら も 無い この 状況 で たちう は 、 とても 太刀打ち できる 相手 で は ない 。

In the past, twice having stood in Soma's way, was a demon with immense power. At the time because of the state in where Dracula's soul, which controlled many demonic souls through the power of domination was able to exterminate it, in this situation without power or even weapons, he wouldn't be considered an opponent to be fought against.

A deepL translation of that same text also gave me this.

In the past, Soma was confronted twice by demons of immense power. At that time, Soma was able to eliminate the souls of many demons by "controlling" them under Dracula's soul, but without power or even a weapon, we are no match for it.

So that doesn't seem to make sense that it's defending himself as opposed to eliminating death with his power of dominance. I will however accept that erasing isn't there since the kanji is different, however there's other proof for regen on death given the fact that he vanished into nothingness when Leon killed him with no soul to see when prior we see Walter's soul with Death when he died, and he's still able to regenerate from that given he appears time and time and time again in the series. Though I do plan on revising the series when I get more translations done especially when LoS has dracula being able to erase beings conceptually and they can come back from it.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Well that sucks, I'd like to see what changed from the original full translation to current.

Either way there's something wrong with your translation you got, or the very least what that castlevaniadungeon translation has, it mention "he was able to defend himself" when that's not mentioned at all in the japanese raw. One translator I know went through the kanji and got this instead.

かつて 、 二 度 にわたり 蒼真 の 前 に 立ち塞がっ た 、 絶大 な 力 を 持つ 魔性 。 その 時 は 、 ドラキュラ の 魂 の 元 に 数多く の 魔物 達 の 魂 を 「 支配 」 し た 状態 だっ た から こそ 封滅 で き た ものの 、 力 は 疎か 武器 すら も 無い この 状況 で たちう は 、 とても 太刀打ち できる 相手 で は ない 。



A deepL translation of that same text also gave me this.



So that doesn't seem to make sense that it's defending himself as opposed to eliminating death with his power of dominance. I will however accept that erasing isn't there since the kanji is different, however there's other proof for regen on death given the fact that he vanished into nothingness when Leon killed him with no soul to see when prior we see Walter's soul with Death when he died, and he's still able to regenerate from that given he appears time and time and time again in the series. Though I do plan on revising the series when I get more translations done especially when LoS has dracula being able to erase beings conceptually and they can come back from it.

Well, there's also the reddit translation, which puts "subdue".

On the Regeneration Argument from Death. I think using this specific example makes no sense.

Walter wasn't killed in a conventional way, Death took his soul to give to Mathias. But as I said, in this Wiki Death is considered the literal concept of death. So I don't know if destroying it, however it's done, counts as destroying the concept itself. I would like more people to give their opinions on this.

-------------------------------------------

And about the second reference to Dracula's "EE"? About the part of that power extending to abstracted beings. Do you have any other proof for that? Is the logic like what I said in the OP? Anyway, if you have proof, then the reference has to be changed too.

It would be interesting to have all the raws of the novel, because there is a possibility that something else in the translation we used in the Castlevania character pages has things mistranslated.

 

[Theglassman12]

I went through the text like several times, nothing about the kanji mentions subduing death with the power of dominance, it just mentions that with the souls Soma commanded with the power of dominance he was able to exterminate death.

He still died though… like Walter was at death’s door thanks to Leon and Death just came in with the killing blow, the difference is we can see the soul there in the cutscene where when death dies nothing remained, not even a soul. I’ve asked around and it can register as high godly if you’re a literal concept and you’re destroyed to the point nothing remained, but reformed back.

I’m fine with removing the second scan since it’s a mistranslation but logistically speaking there’s no reason to suggest Dracula cannot erase death when death’s been his side bitch for the entire series

I know there’s a text in the original translation regarding Olrox being able to “consume someone’s heart by looking at them” which a couple others told me it’s supposed to be soul, not heart, so yeah. Curious on if any of the specific stuff holds up.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

He still died though… like Walter was at death’s door thanks to Leon and Death just came in with the killing blow, the difference is we can see the soul there in the cutscene where when death dies nothing remained, not even a soul. I’ve asked around and it can register as high godly if you’re a literal concept and you’re destroyed to the point nothing remained, but reformed back.

So I think the reference used should be replaced with something saying that Death is a literal concept and can regenerate itself from being totally destroyed(
and then link this scene from Lament of Innocence or something). I don't really know what sentence to formulate.

What do you think?

I’m fine with removing the second scan since it’s a mistranslation but logistically speaking there’s no reason to suggest Dracula cannot erase death when death’s been his side bitch for the entire series

I also think there's no reason why Dracula couldn't extend the effects of his magic (which include the "EE") to beings like Death, considering the whole thing about him being the avatar of chaos, the same chaos that made Death and so on. But I don't know what sentence to form again, to use as a reference. Can you help me with this?

I'm new to this wiki, so when new references are made, how are they approved and added?

I know there’s a text in the original translation regarding Olrox being able to “consume someone’s heart by looking at them” which a couple others told me it’s supposed to be soul, not heart, so yeah. Curious on if any of the specific stuff holds up.

I wonder if there is another translation error that can significantly change the profiles, be it an upgrade or downgrade.

The castlevaniadungeon user who did the complete translation of the novel (the translation that is used in profiles and has the "erasure of existence" thing in it), said that another castlevaniadungeon user named Koutei was the person who sent him the scans. So this would be a way to try to acquire all the raws, but I find it very unlikely that this user is still active on the site, considering the time. And I also think it's unlikely that he has the raws saved after so long.

 

[Theglassman12]

I'm fine with that, though I'm gonna be a bit busy this weekend due to IRL stuff so it'll take me some time to make any changes to the pages.

New references isn't exactly something that would need approval since it's just adding scans to something already accepted. You'd need to make CRT (Content Revision Threads) to argue adding a brand new ability or a tier change in the stats for you to apply the changes. If it's just adding extra scans it's not necessarily required to make a CRT for it, especially when it's an ability already accepted in the first place, though scans for anyone unfamiliar with the franchise does help.

Maybe some upgrades or downgrades, depends on what we get, at best High 3-A might be contested but not only does 2 characters in the entire franchise scale to this feat in the first place but there's several other guidebooks for the other games that mentions the castle housing infinite supply of demons, so it's not like the rating will go away.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Estou bem com isso, embora esteja um pouco ocupado neste fim de semana devido a coisas da IRL, então vou levar algum tempo para fazer alterações nas páginas.

Ok.

 

[Theglassman12]

I changed all the pages which had the mistranslation and removed the second scan from dracula's EE, is that all or was there anything else you wanted to talk about?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I changed all the pages which had the mistranslation and removed the second scan from dracula's EE, is that all or was there anything else you wanted to talk about?

Thanks, and that's all.

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, closing.