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Calculations should be put on the pages of everyone who scales to them

While I do agree that the scaling chains can get extremely impractical if not outright circular, it doesn't really seem feasible to add a calculation to every single page. I'd prefer to limit scaling chains to at most one or two profiles and elaborate on the specifics within their Attack Potency sections. And add all relevant calcs to the verse page for easy reference. Perhaps also have a section or blog detailing the scaling for larger verses.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
And maybe write a note in editing rules, scaling rules, or some page detailing our standards for character profiles that the verse page should be looked at for tier justifications?
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Im also seriously considering this too btw. While it likely would not solve the entire problem, having an actual note in our standards to recommend visitors visit the verse page itself for any calculations used for tier justifications could be a big help in solving the issue somewhat and it would be something practical we could do.
 
Planck69 said:
While I do agree that the scaling chains can get extremely impractical if not outright circular, it doesn't really seem feasible to add a calculation to every single page. I'd prefer to limit scaling chains to at most one or two profiles and elaborate on the specifics within their Attack Potency sections. And add all relevant calcs to the verse page for easy reference. Perhaps also have a section or blog detailing the scaling for larger verses.
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I agree with this.
 
or we can have a section below each character page adding the calc they scale to there? it seems reasonable and it is not that tedious since the calc are already on the verse page just some copying and pasting
 
Maybe it could be a segment under Notable Attacks and Techniques?

Here's a little mock-up I made

Scaling:
  • Attack Potency: (Insert tier) scales to this (insert link to calc), which is (insert units of energy they scale to, likely in highest applicable unit).
  • Speed: (Insert speed tier) scales to this (insert link to calc)
Upscaling and downscaling can probably be in the AP, or mentioned by knowledgeable users in versus threads. This would also actually greatly help verses that rely on multipliers for some stats so people don't have to go do math every time they wanna figure out how strong somebody is. It would also help with calcs that use joules instead of tons/foe for higher tiers.
 
Well, copy/pasting works if it's a bunch of character relatively equal to each other are scaling from the same feat, but examples such as a big list of character A is far superior to character B who is far superior to character C who is far superior to character D, ect, with character G or H being the one who scales from the feat leaves the aforementioned characters devoid of context. Character F for example could have (Is stronger than character G who did [[User Blog:Calculated Feat|this]]). But as Planck mentioned, there could be too much redundancy for the characters A to character E.

Though as mentioned, having all calculations in the verse page is a great start.
 
Like I said, scaling chains can be for the whole jumping page to page thing. This is just so there's a number on the page so people don't need to jump from page to page.

It's more for casuals than hardcore debaters.
 
So if I'm understanding this correctly. If a verse doesn’t have too much scaling going on we need to mention which calcs the characters scale to on their profiles. But if there‘s like say over like half a dozen scaling going on between different characters we can just note everything on the verse page or compile everything in a blog right?
 
We should list all of the relevant calculations that we currently scale the characters from in the verse pages, yes, but creating such sections in 25,000 profile pages is not remotely realistic to apply, and we have several other important unfinished projects.
 
Agree with the calculations page. If I have to click through 8 different profiles and still not find what I'm looking for I'm abandoning my project, I don't have time for that.
 
I'll just remind that out of 25,000 pages, most verses don't have even a single calculation to speak of in the first place, and in any case this would be gradually applied as users get interest on upgrading the quality of the pages they know about.
 
I agree with this. In verses like Dragon Ball I've gone through tens of profiles back and forth before hoping to find where the tiers begin and why. Putting the calc as easily as "[[User Blog X|Building level]] (Fought so and so and for this reason)" would go a long way in transparency and ease of learning why and how they got to the tier they're at.
 
Well, I personally prefer that format, but it would have to be a gradual change, not a massive revision project.

Should we write this as an instruction in our standard format for character profiles page?
 
The_Smashor said:
So, I recently found some actual valid criticism (for once) of our website on Reddit. Don't let the title mislead you, it's not just ******** on us for disagreeing with the poster's personal opinions on the stats of anime/comic characters or whatever, it's actual criticism (Even if they aren't exactly tactful about it).

Long story short, the poster is annoyed that you need to click on sometimes upwards of five separate pages to find the origin of a character's stats. As such, I think we should put the calculation that the character scales to on the profile itself (As said in the title). We could make it something like "Better than/Equal to/Almost as strong as than X, who (upscales from/downscales from/is equal to characters who) can do this ("This" containing the link to the calc that the character scales from).

This wouldn't be easy by any stretch of the imagination, but it would make it easier for people to find the stats of characters without needing to click on several separate profiles and generally improve quality of life for casual users of this wiki.
Click to expand...
Thank you
You know how annoying it is to find the reason for why character x is at this level without the exact reason why
 
Ogbunabali said:
I agree with this. In verses like Dragon Ball I've gone through tens of profiles back and forth before hoping to find where the tiers begin and why. Putting the calc as easily as "[[User Blog X|Building level]] (Fought so and so and for this reason)" would go a long way in transparency and ease of learning why and how they got to the tier they're at.
Click to expand...
I'm really against linking the calc directly in the rating bit.
 
So do you think that adding new sections to each page with the calculations that characters scale to would be better? That option seems rather out of place and awkward to me.
 
Antvasima said:
So do you think that adding new sections to each page with the calculations that characters scale to would be better? That option seems rather out of place and awkward to me.
Click to expand...
No, I'm more in favor of having better written justifications & linking the calculations of the verse clearly on the verse page. If the list is organized well enough, and the character's justifications are written well enough, then I think that'd be best.
 
Yeah, I agree calcs absolutely should be on verse pages (I actually think it should somewhat be a requirement rather than optional).

But I believe adding calculations to every character who scales to them is not a great idea. Adding a characters calc to another characters page could cause confusion imo.

We should make scaling chains as direct as possible to avoid massive link chains on pages, most of the problems people are bringing up seems to just imply that profiles scaling chains don't link to a character who performed the feat which gives them the tier, so no value can be found.

Basically we should ensure a verses calculations are on the verse page, and make sure that characters scaling chains always eventually lead to the calc in question in the most direct way possible.
 
As a response to Ogbunabali's comments, I think the power scaling chain list blog sounds like something that should be linked to every Dragon Ball Z profile, and basically every DBS profile that has keys less than 3-A. The speed and AP calculations are included in said blog.
 
(This would be less of a problem if we judged more characters by their feats instead of forcing ourselves to use powerscaling chains ten or twenty characters long).
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Click to expand...
To be fair we got all this formatting on the One Piece page from Fairy Tail aka Mitch who does a wonderful job at organizing profiles and has been doing so since I've been here, so yeah I think it should be applied to the pages for the verses.
 
Damage3245 said:
(This would be less of a problem if we judged more characters by their feats instead of forcing ourselves to use powerscaling chains ten or twenty characters long).
Click to expand...
I mean when you have some series that literally upscale from a single feat due to the tier being too big (Like 4-B) you kinda need to use a scaling chain as there's nothing else to scale them to.
Qawsedf234 said:
Click to expand...
So basically as long as we have the calcs that the characters scale to on the verse page along with a scaling chain note or blog on what they scale to it'll be fine right? We don't have to list the feats they scale to onto each profile unless only a few characters scales to it.
 
AKM sama said:
Probably just say "Scales to (character) who did/scales to (feat)" and explain who that other character scales to and why in his own page. That way you can reference as many pages in a loop while also showing the main feat in each page.
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This was my suggestion.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
You would only need to explain who they scale to rather than justify the tier on every profile
Click to expand...
What do we do if they have like an entire scaling chain filled with multipliers on top of a feat they scale to? Do we scale characters to another character that has a multiplier on top of said feat or to the feat itself?

Like say the feat is like 10 Foe and there’s a character that has like an entire scaling chain filled with multipliers above this feat that makes them vary from like 30 Foe to 300 Foe.

Do we list the 10 Foe feat anyway even if they massively scale above that?
 
If we have a blog detailing all the scaling we can just link the blog onto the verse page instead right? We won’t need to write it on the verse page or is it still required to have those scaling written as notes on the main page.
 
Oh thank god. I was kind of worried I had to list all the different lvls of 4-B to Low 2-C from the blog onto the verse page along with which series of characters scale to said lvls.
 
Last edited:
I absolutely agree with the OP for the record. Pages should make it as easy as humanly possible to find the stats they scale to, searching for the exact value shouldn't be some kind of wild goose chase that yields nothing. I don't think I've managed to achieve the Ourosbouros effect on any of my verses but I will go through them in an attempt to fix 'em just in case.

This is an absolutely necessary fix, one that will make shit a lot more clear for our users. Let's do it.
 
KieranH10 said:
Yeah, I agree calcs absolutely should be on verse pages (I actually think it should somewhat be a requirement rather than optional).

But I believe adding calculations to every character who scales to them is not a great idea. Adding a characters calc to another characters page could cause confusion imo.

We should make scaling chains as direct as possible to avoid massive link chains on pages, most of the problems people are bringing up seems to just imply that profiles scaling chains don't link to a character who performed the feat which gives them the tier, so no value can be found.

Basically we should ensure a verses calculations are on the verse page, and make sure that characters scaling chains always eventually lead to the calc in question in the most direct way possible.
Click to expand...
This is mostly my view as well.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I absolutely agree with the OP for the record. Pages should make it as easy as humanly possible to find the stats they scale to, searching for the exact value shouldn't be some kind of wild goose chase that yields nothing. I don't think I've managed to achieve the Ourosbouros effect on any of my verses but I will go through them in an attempt to fix 'em just in case.

This is an absolutely necessary fix, one that will make shit a lot more clear for our users. Let's do it.
Click to expand...
So what do you suggest that we should concretely do to encourage this practice?
 
AKM sama said:
Probably just say "Scales to (character) who scales to (feat)" and explain who that other character scales to and why in his own page. That way you can reference as many pages in a loop while also showing the main feat in each page.
Click to expand...
This is fine with me, but we would need to figure out how to properly adjust our instruction pages to encourage this working procedure in the future.
 
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