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mugetsu/Dangai ichigo and butterfly/monster aizen upscaled to planetary via to scaling to the weakened soul king.
Azashiro, SAFWY kenpachi, Vasto lorde ichigo and all those who scale above to planetary via sokyoku scaling
Bankai yama to moon level/planetary for being able to destroy SS and being > SAFWY kenpachi
Ressurection hikone, CFYOW base kenpachi (w/o eyepatch) and CFYOW bankai ginjo upgraded to planetary via all being relative to res hikone who is confirmed relative to muken aizen and soul king yhwach's corpse/WSK
A 1000X gap between dangai ichigo and hogyoku aizen
Can someone please summarize what characters are getting upgraded/downgraded by this thread?
Please formulate a proper response lmaoVague assumptions.
Power scaling stacking.
Planet level Espadas?
This is a joke thread, right? Someone tell me it is a joke thread.
Worse of all Fullbringers and my man Yammy are left out of the power scaling.
I don’t agree.
Bro this thread not even suggesting to upgrade all characters. Beside many characters can be scaled using multipliers with consistency.Vague assumptions.
Power scaling stacking.
Planet level Espadas?
This is a joke thread, right? Someone tell me it is a joke thread.
Worse of all Fullbringers and my man Yammy are left out of the power scaling.
I don’t agree.
As we said, the god tier scaling is much simpler and concluded.
Lol great point regarding base aizen > cien. I completely forgot about how he submitted himself to aizen and worked under him as an espada despite his big ego.First of all congratulations for all this work independently of everything.
I pretty much agree with the basis of everything. Although most of tiers depends on multiplier and sokyoku so I’ll give my thoughts on the scaling that can work regardless of the tier result. There is a lot to discuss.
Regarding the scaling chain they are correct, Unohana killed a stronger kenpachi multiple times, base Aizen is superior which make sense with the fact that Aizen is actually a lot stronger than his espada Cien Who stalemate kenpachi without eye patch for hours, Cien being massively stronger than every other espada, the same way Unohana was stronger then zaraki so it make sense With the actual scaling chain. Unohana is the only captain that can be near Aizen and Yama. Unohana and Yama never changed their power level. People above vasto lorde Ichigo, kenpachi, Unohana, base Aizen and Yama would scale. Which are not that much I think. But that can be discussed,
glad you explained the 1st fusion Aizen, no one scale to that, Aizen was not harmed, Aizen one shot all 3 of them when went serious, Aizen was just evolving To start the fusion. and the god Aizen and Dangai Ichigo are now undoubtedly god tier since it always was like from the obvious narrative, this should have happened long ago, good job.
regarding God tiers my opinion is that Hikone should scale to god Aizen level or Reio level, since god aizen level can be a causal aizen, while Muken Aizen at his strongest would win. God Aizen and hikone having similar statement for Reio make it the Scaling good for me. I don’t think base kenpachi is that strong To be already on some Yhwach level, statement can be adapted to the manga scaling to make it reasonable, so Im convinced this is the best scaling to apply for now You already know.
I may say other thing later.
Ginjo and Tsukishima are very much equals in CFYOW, at least to base Ginjo.No one agreed to planetary Espada and Arc will probably drop it, Fullbringers wouldn't scale, probably Ginjo only.
Bankai ginjo was the one stated to "might be able to put up a decent fight against hikone (res)". So if the upgrade proposal is accepted then it'd only affect him in that state.Ginjo and Tsukishima are very much equals in CFYOW, at least to base Ginjo.
Funny considering ur tsukishima >>>> monster aizen scaleVague assumptions.
Power scaling stacking.
Planet level Espadas?
This is a joke thread, right? Someone tell me it is a joke thread.
Worse of all Fullbringers and my man Yammy are left out of the power scaling.
I don’t agree.
The last kenpachi pre-TYBW zaraki killed was kenpachi kiganjo. He didn't kill azashiro but azashiro decided to flee from the battle due to kenny's power and aizen only gave azashiro a 10% chance of winning against zaraki despite knowing about his abilitiesDoesn’t Zaraki’s scale to the last Kenpachi he killed? His Bankai is able to destroy the entire Seireite?
Which characters exactly do you think should get the upgrade?I don't know, I agree on the conclusions so to scale certain characters to tier 5 but I think there's some unnecessary stuff hard to corroborate with everything
I lean to agreeing
It would just upscale the AP of the meteor. We know that the AP of the projectiles that gremmy creates/imagines scale above their "normal" counterparts as kenpachi got burnt by his guns and missiles. The likes of which would barely be building level if not lower regularly lmaoI agree on getting basically all characters at tier 5 besides Ulquiorra which seems too much to bring at small planetary with CO but it could be just my incredulity I guess, also Kenpachi needing his shikai to cut the meteor would make him scale below planetary in that form right ?
I've seen multiplier stacking being suggested based on powerscaling. But multiplier stacking based on sensing someone is very iffy especially when you are suggesting two 1000x multipliers. Damage brings up a good point about them being able to harm Aizen somewhat and same for Ichigo, which they shouldn't even be able to considering they weren't even able to sense him. For comparison, Zaraki was not 1000x stronger than Ichigo when they first met and even then Ichigo wasn't able to cut Zaraki even when he was able to sense.
Moreover, Ichigo being able to sense Aizen when he was weak (this is relevant because the thread is based on the assumption that weaker opponents can't sense a 1000x stronger opponent, which means it has to do with the level of power) and Isshin saying it has more to do with "state", not power level, suggest that there is something more important at play than just a power level difference.
I'd have objections with a 1000x multiplier even if it came from valid powerscaling (you'd know if you see me in a DB thread) but when it is based on power sensing, it is even more objectionable. So I disagree with that.
That's the thing I was called in to give my opinion on. I'll take my leave to go do other things now and leave you guys for the rest of the stuff.
And equal argument would be why does sasuke need chidori to stop a meteor? Instead of just using a single punch or sword strike.I agree on getting basically all characters at tier 5 besides Ulquiorra which seems too much to bring at small planetary with CO but it could be just my incredulity I guess, also Kenpachi needing his shikai to cut the meteor would make him scale below planetary in that form right ?
A weaker Ichigo sensing Aizen is due to his power fluctuations. Which depends on his mental state and whites influence.
Allow me to address backscaling from the multiplier I proposed. Simply it is not possible to backscale from that multiplier, because it is unquantifiably greater than the largest quantified gap that was able to be sensed. Uryu could sense the gap between himself and Full Hollow Ichigo, therefore the gap between being unable to sense would be larger, albeit unquantifiable. Hence, why I felt safe about applying the multiplier as it can only go in one direction and that is forward rather than backscaling.
As for Aizen being hit with Isshin’s Getsuga, I’ve already provided the scan stating from an omniscient narrator that Aizen did not actually receive any damage. Furthermore, in the colored scans you can clearly see it’s not blood dripping from Aizen, rather some purple goo. Lastly, we know Aizen after achieving further evolutions into transcendence can lower his reiatsu to the point where people can sense him again. Meaning Aizen can nerf himself below the gap/multiplier that takes him so high. Not only do the Bleach Sannin not actually do any damage to Aizen, but even the slightest bits of decent performance against that Aizen don’t work as anti feats as Aizen can massively nerf himself. This is consistent with his “transcendent attitude” as he often times lets his opponents attack him and power up due to his cockiness. He lets Gin stab him because he was curious as to how Gin would betray him, and he also allowed Ichigo to train and grow in power just to enjoy one last battle before conquering the world. To put the nail in the coffin, the second Aizen does exert any effort at all he no diffs the entire Bleach Sannin without breaking a sweat. Quoting Aizen himself, “I no longer have reason to be on guard”.
This multiplier cannot backscale because it is “at least 1000x” albeit unquantifiably so. As I explained earlier, it’s some way vaguely above what I proposed but not to quantifiable degree, and you should know there would be issues with using our fan calcs and numbers to place a value to the gap multiplier.If Transcendance worked as the OP proposed then all of the Captains would be impossible to sense by the likes of Ikkaku, Renji, Soul Society Arc Ichigo, etc.
The 1000x multiplier is the one thing I'm dead-set against right now.
In fact if characters could simply become Transcendent to each other and impossible to sense merely by being 1000 times stronger, then Isshin wouldn't have described what was happening to Aizen like how he couldn't understand what was going on. He simply would have said he was too powerful to sense.
1) That would produce scaling like this: half power Bankai Ichigo < half power Striped Mask Bankai Ichigo ~ Res Yammy < base Aizen ~ Kisuke < Bankai Ichigo < Res Yammy. Which is contradicted by Aizen scaling above all the Espada and by the fact that Bankai Ichigo was stated by Aizen to be weaker than Aizen, hell Striped Mask Bankai Ichigo only damaged Aizen with a surprise attack and when Aizen was on guard he could deflect attacks form that Ichigo. “But Ichigo was mentally nerfed” he was mentally nerfed ever since he regained consciousness after killing Ulq.
You’re saying Bankai Ichigo is more than 1000x weaker than Condom Aizen right?I don't see how that would be the case. I'm not arguing for Ichigo to be comparable to Aizen.
It's not an assumption i posted a scan of ichigo power level fluctuating from below base yammy level to beyond ulq.Which is an assumption.
I'm saying that simply being more powerful does not make one impossible to sense.You’re saying Bankai Ichigo is more than 1000x weaker than Condom Aizen right?
If I'm not mistaken, Arc's main point is that even a 1000X gap isn't enough to become undetectable. Not that if you're only 1000X stronger then you're automatically undetectableIf Transcendance worked as the OP proposed then all of the Captains would be impossible to sense by the likes of Ikkaku, Renji, Soul Society Arc Ichigo, etc.
The 1000x multiplier is the one thing I'm dead-set against right now.
In fact if characters could simply become Transcendent to each other and impossible to sense merely by being 1000 times stronger, then Isshin wouldn't have described what was happening to Aizen like how he couldn't understand what was going on. He simply would have said he was too powerful to sense.
That was because both white and ichigo were fighting for control. That wasn't happening during Deicide arcIt's not an assumption i posted a scan of ichigo power level fluctuating from below base yammy level to beyond ulq.
Didn’t base Ginjo and Tsukishima fought Grimmjow as equals in CFYOW? They also fought the female Quincies.Bankai ginjo was the one stated to "might be able to put up a decent fight against hikone (res)". So if the upgrade proposal is accepted then it'd only affect him in that state.
Btw there's a statement confirming (and backed up by feats) base CFYOW ginjo > CFYOW tsuki
This.If I'm not mistaken, Arc's main point is that even a 1000X gap isn't enough to become undetectable. Not that if you're only 1000X stronger then you're automatically undetectable
The thing is with Ichigo and Zangetsu is that it’s verbatim stated that Zangetsu is vastly superior to Ichigo. One’s power is derived from their Zanpakuto. It’d be like Ichigo’s actual power level in that arc is 10000, but he’s only using a power level of 10 because he doesn’t understand his powers. The whole point of that scene was to show that Ichigo had untapped potential that he wasn’t utilizing in combat, but he still had it. Or perhaps an Ichigo that isn’t mentally nerfing himself is simply superior to FKT Kisuke and Isshin.I'm saying that simply being more powerful does not make one impossible to sense.
The logic of using "Uryu could sense Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras which is 1000 x stronger than him thanks to stacked multipliers, therefore anyone who can't be sensed by anyone else is at least 1000 times stronger than them" isn't supported.
For something as verse-definining as that I'd want objective evidence, not assumptions based on how transcendance works.
An assumption like "Ichigo could only sense Aizen due to Zangetsu holding him back" isn't convincing for me either.
Yes, the Kenpachi who was not allowed to release his Bankai on the Seireitei because it would swallowed it all. I think Kubo draw it on a sketch with the feat. I saw that sketch somewhere.The last kenpachi pre-TYBW zaraki killed was kenpachi kiganjo. He didn't kill azashiro but azashiro decided to flee from the battle due to kenny's power and aizen only gave azashiro a 10% chance of winning against zaraki despite knowing about his abilities
IIRC someone stated that Ginjo is the strongest out of the group and Ginjo wasn't in Bankai at that time.Didn’t base Ginjo and Tsukishima fought Grimmjow as equals in CFYOW? They also fought the female Quincies.