Universal Bleach God Tier Revision

[Duedate8898]

Again, outscaling the blanks is fine, it's just we don't do LS scaling like that. Especially when the LS isn't for their physical stats. My point here is that as long as the feats are performed with TK or anything that isn't them physically doing so with their bodies, Ichigo and Aizen can't qualify to scale. That's how we treat LS normally.

Aizen does state he can perform an identical feat to the Wandenreich feat. He states he can shoot the Reiokyu down to the SS. The wandenreich also sat atop the Reiokyu, meaning they have comparable size.

Being stronger than a person justifies it. They are superior to blanks which perform

These feats wouldn't be idential because Aizens isn't saying he can pull it down, he's say shoot it down. Which is a matter of AP not LS.

 

[Jibz]

my feelings on the matter of scaling align with Duedate tbh.

 

[Arcker123]

Again, outscaling the blanks is fine, it's just we don't do LS scaling like that. Especially when the LS isn't for their physical stats. My point here is that as long as the feats are performed with TK or anything that isn't them physically doing so with their bodies, Ichigo and Aizen can't qualify to scale. That's how we treat LS normally.

I don't see the problem. They physically outscale the blanks and the blanks feat is physical. It's a simple assumption that outscaling someone physically means you upscale their LS (Which is a form of physical strength). If you wanna go wit "How the wiki treats LS" we can look at many profiles with LS justifications like "Stronger then X character." This is quite simple.

Edit: It was a casual feat that happened merely as a consequence of the dimension being so large and forming between the planets. Still physical as to my knowledge, the blanks really don't have much hax beyond explosions that were not used.

On the topic of Yhwach's TK, its still powered by reiatsu that he needs to exert at the end of the day. If his body wasn't capable of exerting said energy in the first place, he wouldn't be able to perform the lift.

Even if one wants to say reishi control despite the rather visible difference, Quincies follow the same rules in this regard as seen with Ishida bleeding from firing too many arrows in his competition with Ichigo in the Substitute Arc.

You've also yet to respond to this.

These feats wouldn't be idential because Aizens isn't saying he can pull it down, he's say shoot it down. Which is a matter of AP not LS.

Synonymous and this is just a semantical game anyway. What Aizen means is that since the soul reapers can't reach the Reiokyu, he'll shoot it down to their level on the ground. The calc I linked is literally using KE to calc exactly that, and the assumption he meant to pull it down was accepted by calc members in the comments. It's virtually the same feat as the wandenreich feat, but done through Reiatsu.

 

[Wagy]

(First time on the forum) Aggre FRA

 

[SuperStar]

(First time on the forum) Aggre FRA

First time being Ratio'd

 

[Nierre]

Leaning towards DD FRA

 

[Deceived3596]

First time being Ratio'd

You try this all the time and every time it always backfires.

Go ratio some bitches and stop meat riding in this thread.

Goober.

 

[SuperStar]

You try this all the time and every time it always backfires.

Go ratio some bitches and stop meat riding in this thread.

Goober.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

On the topic of Yhwach's TK, its still powered by reiatsu that he needs to exert at the end of the day. If his body wasn't capable of exerting said energy in the first place, he wouldn't be able to perform the lift.

Even if one wants to say reishi control despite the rather visible difference, Quincies follow the same rules in this regard as seen with Ishida bleeding from firing too many arrows in his competition with Ichigo in the Substitute Arc.

To expand upon this point further with actual proof that your body needs to be able to sustain such exertions even when there is no physical component to whatever feat is being performed, see Ichigo using his first Getsuga Tensho ever against the Gillian and Uryu saving his ass.

• Ichigo builds up energy to throw out.
• Swings his sword and releases it.
• His body starts self-destructing.
• Uryu even being close starts getting harmed because it is absorbed to his bow.
• His bow isn’t part of him yet he continuously gets harmed.
• Uryu’s explanation on how Quincy form their bows.

Conclusion: Quincy using a non-physical hax (spirit manip and matter hax in the scans I provided, TK for Yhwach) are physically harmed if their body cannot actually perform said feat even if it takes place entirely outside of their body. Needless to say, Yhwach is a Quincy like Uryu who is even manipulating matter in his own feat (admittedly on a larger and blunter scale) so this is as close to a 1:1 comparison as we can have in the series for Arcker’s proposal and it checks out.

 

[Duedate8898]

I don't see the problem. They physically outscale the blanks and the blanks feat is physical. It's a simple assumption that outscaling someone physically means you upscale their LS (Which is a form of physical strength). If you wanna go wit "How the wiki treats LS" we can look at many profiles with LS justifications like "Stronger then X character." This is quite simple.

Edit: It was a casual feat that happened merely as a consequence of the dimension being so large and forming between the planets. Still physical as to my knowledge, the blanks really don't have much hax beyond explosions that were not used.

The issue you're ignoring in that instance is that for many of wiki profiles that have such justifications, there isn't a matter of TK involved for the most part. The big issue I take with all of this is that neither the blanks nor Yhwach are using their own physical bodies to achieve these feats. They rely on methods which both Aizen and Ichigo lack to accomplish these things. Neither Ichigo or Aizen have ever exerted their spirtual energy in a way which is comparable to what Yhwach and the blanks accomplish. And without there being a shared method between these for to accomplish the feat, simply being stronger doesn't work as proper justification to allow them to scale between one another in this instance. Not to mention an even bigger problem in that we don't ever see Ichigo overcome or match Yhwach's physical LS much less his TK ever once he assumes the form that performs the feat of lifting the Soul King palace. There isn't a good enough connection here to justify Ichigo or Aizen scaling in LS here.

You've also yet to respond to this.


Synonymous and this is just a semantical game anyway. What Aizen means is that since the soul reapers can't reach the Reiokyu, he'll shoot it down to their level on the ground. The calc I linked is literally using KE to calc exactly that, and the assumption he meant to pull it down was accepted by calc members in the comments. It's virtually the same feat as the wandenreich feat, but done through Reiatsu.

To shoot down and pull down are not the same thing at all. That's my response to it. The very premise that Aizen is implying he'd pull the Soul Palace out of the sky is unfounded and therefore not valid support for you point of scaling these together.

To expand upon this point further with actual proof that your body needs to be able to sustain such exertions even when there is no physical component to whatever feat is being performed, see Ichigo using his first Getsuga Tensho ever against the Gillian and Uryu saving his ass.

• Ichigo builds up energy to throw out.
• Swings his sword and releases it.
• His body starts self-destructing.
• Uryu even being close starts getting harmed because it is absorbed to his bow.
• His bow isn’t part of him yet he continuously gets harmed.
• Uryu’s explanation on how Quincy form their bows.

Conclusion: Quincy using a non-physical hax (spirit manip and matter hax in the scans I provided, TK for Yhwach) are physically harmed if their body cannot actually perform said feat even if it takes place entirely outside of their body. Needless to say, Yhwach is a Quincy like Uryu who is even manipulating matter in his own feat (admittedly on a larger and blunter scale) so this is as close to a 1:1 comparison as we can have in the series for Arcker’s proposal and it checks out.

This example falls apart for multiple reasons but key amongst them is that what's going on isn't entirely phsycially outside of Uryu's body. He's getting harmed right now in his arms and hands, both of which are being physically used to direct and manipulate Ichigo's spiritual pressure. Not only is Uryu using someone elses spiritual pressure, but still he's using his own physicals combined with his power to accomplish the feat. This shows you have to be durable enough to use your power, but it doesn't show your LS has to scale with your AP.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

This example falls apart for multiple reasons but key amongst them is that what's going on isn't entirely phsycially outside of Uryu's body. He's getting harmed right now in his arms and hands, both of which are being physically used to direct and manipulate Ichigo's spiritual pressure. Not only is Uryu using someone elses spiritual pressure, but still he's using his own physicals combined with his power to accomplish the feat. This shows you have to be durable enough to use your power, but it doesn't show your LS has to scale with your AP.

1. It doesn’t matter that it’s Ichigo’s reiatsu. Uryu specifically says he is stealing it, aka making it his own. It’s the exact same thing Quincies do to reishi and even Sklaverei, their reishi control on crack, absorbs Ayon and negates the Hollow reiatsu that is poisonous to Quincy. This isn’t even a Sklaverei only thing as Hueco Mundo is full of Hollow reiatsu and reishi and yet Uryu and all the Wandenreich goons can still make use of them without being poisoned by their Hollow nature. Quincy reishi manip makes whatever they control harmless to them. Uryu even directly shows us this against Cirucci when he absorbs her reishi into his own attack and is just fine.
2. This is why I included the scan of Uryu’s explanation on how Quincy powers work, he coats the reishi outside of his body with his reiatsu to manipulate them. All of it takes place outside of his body so nothing involves his body and yet he gets harmed before he even starts firing anything (which is him actually using his physicals).
3. This isn’t simply scaling your dura to AP for the most part, it’s showing that Quincy need to be physically capable of performing the same feats as their hax.

 

[Luziifero]

bump

 

[Blallooo]

Bump, I think it's fine to just accept it for Yhwach only instead of leaving this thread in an endless limbo