Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel) (Part 2)

[Aernasilver]

A captain, who is one of the fastest characters in the series (which should logically allow her scale to characters slower than her) that trained during the 17 months timeskip and also trained during the TYBW arc is the same as their Arrancar Arc version.

You're being absolutely ridiculous. I don't see how anyone can agree with you.

 

[Purgy]

@Damage weren't you going to make your own system of scaling the characters? I see no reason to continue debating the current scaling of speed if you're making your own, it's completely pointless.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

A captain, who is one of the fastest characters in the series (which should logically allow her scale to characters slower than her) that trained during the 17 months timeskip and also trained during the TYBW arc is the same as their Arrancar Arc version.
You're being absolutely ridiculous. I don't see how anyone can agree with you.

No one agrees with him

 

[Aernasilver]

That is my point regarding him doing his own scaling. If he is going by that logic how can anyone agree with his scaling?

 

[Damage3245]

@TOAAPRESENCE1; look at like this if you want; she's been a Captains for decades and yet she didn't have massive increases in speed every few months.

We don't rate characters as being massively faster then themselves after training unless they have the feats to prove it.

@Aernasilver; not exactly the same. Just at least the same.

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage weren't you going to make your own system of scaling the characters? I see no reason to continue debating the current scaling of speed if you're making your own, it's completely pointless.

I said I would last night and then had to sleep. I've only just woken up.

 

[Purgy]

@Damage weren't you going to make your own system of scaling the characters? I see no reason to continue debating the current scaling of speed if you're making your own, it's completely pointless.

I said I would last night and then had to sleep. I've only just woken up.

Okay and I'm not rushing you. But if you think this way of scaling things is completely wrong and you're making your own, why even bother continue debating the current scaling? We should just wait until you post your own way of scaling since this is clearly going nowhere.

 

[Aernasilver]

It's also going to go nowhere even if he does his own scaling. I don't know why we're even entertaining him anymore.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; I wanted to respond to Vertius' point.

And I don't think that the proposed scaling is 100% wrong, there are just several flaws in it.

 

[Purgy]

Because we have no choice but to, he's the only staff member that's given their opinion, the other staff members either have no interest in Bleach threads or just avoid them like the plague. At the end of the day, the staffs opinions are all that matter, Damage is aware of this hence the only option we have is to see what his scaling looks like.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Ok so here's the thing, I don't agree with Damage but I can somewhat see his point. But thing is Soi wasn't exactly a captain all the time, last time we ever saw her she was just Yoruichi's apprentice training under her...Basicaly uh...All I say about Soi Fon is 100 years of spite, betrayal and most likely depression while also having to deal with Squad 2 and the Stealth Force.

 

[AppleLord]

Can we scale Eternal Shunko Soifon to BG9? In that form Soifon was able to blitz BG9 and catch his reishi bullets but once she deactivated that form BG9 fodderize her to the point that she needed Omaeda's help to aim her Bankai. I'm not saying Omaeda is faster than Soifon when she decided not to take him with her to her training, but we start from there.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Can we scale Eternal Shunko Soifon to BG9? In that form Soifon was able to blitz BG9 and catch his reishi bullets but once she deactivated that form BG9 fodderize her to the point that she needed Omaeda's help to aim her Bankai. I'm not saying Omaeda is faster than Soifon when she decided not to take him with her to her training, but we start from there.

Actually its more like BG9 adapted to her Eternal Shunko, i dont think its really even shown she dropped out of even her regular Shunko which she just mastered. Heck BG9 even blitzed her

 

[AppleLord]

MissStormCaller trnaslation about Aura been compared to Aizen:

- Aware of the fact that up till this point, the very moves Urahara had played, are the various tactics he had once employed against a Hōgyoku fused Aizen.

"There's no holding back. Let's give it everything we've got." However, that the Fullbringer known as Michibane Aura is a presence that demanded said degree of precaution, Hisagi had also understood this by now.

The narrator again compares Urahara's full incantation Hado 91 to be stronger than current Grimmjow's Gran Rey Cero who Kenpachi wanted to fight.

A cluster of light rays that are spread out in the sky converged before Urahara, forming a high density barrage it bores into the swarm of dark red dragons along with the surrounding atmosphere, burning them away. Oddly enough, it closely resembled the 'Gran Rey Cero' which Grimmjow and his company were unleashing at the same time in the Rukongai.

Even on the aspect of power, it is by no means outdone by Gran Rey Cero, perhaps the blow of a formidable Kidō even has the potential to surpass it.

In this translation it says that Aura didn't receive physical damage from Hado 91 she used her reiatsu and got weaker. IIRC I had read somewhere else that was holding back, maybe that was a bad translation.

"I see, is it that you're also able to manipulate the Reishi of my Kidō after all?" Finally, when the smoke before his eyes cleared away, a lone figure came into sight. As the remnants of what used to be the dark red dragons float around aimlessly in the surroundings, Michibane Aura was standing there flashing a smile that was as bold as ever. "No, if anything, it's like she controlled the soul within nitrogen and constructed it into a barrier… I guess that's how I'd describe it. Oh my, that you're able to do that in the Human World which has a weaker Reishi presence, it is truly an amazing thing."

'With an expression that said it was within expectation that she would not be shot down, Urahara observes Aura. "However, it would appear you couldn't very well get away with no damage." Although she had sustained no obvious external injuries to her body or garments, even Hisagi had sensed the change. Could it be that she had run out of reserve power to dilute her presence by means of Fullbring? Just a moment ago, her Reiatsu should have thinned out completely, but now it can be felt clearly even through Hisagi's Reiatsu Chikaku. Moreover, a fluctuation could be sensed in the Reiatsu itself similar in feeling to exhaustion, Hisagi had concluded that the woman before his eyes was beginning to lose room to manoeuvre. "Phew, that's a relief. If you were to tell me she was unscathed just now, then we would surely need to take measures on the level it took to deal with Aizen Sōsuke after all." "…This is Kidō? It's the first time I've been directly on the receiving end, but it certainly seems like a formidable technique. Looks like I have somewhat underestimated you Shinigami beings." —— I'd be worried if she's taking Urahara san's level as the standard to measure us by….

 

[AppleLord]

Source for Aura vs Urahara.

 

[USklaverei]

I've been thinking about some things that in my opinion make sense.

Gremmy was able to imagine all the power of Zaraki, however, he forgot or could not create a body so strong, however, that would still scale Gremmy because he could imagine all the power of Zaraki, which in this case would be 11.78 Petatons. So Gremmy should have a High 6-A key.

With that, he would scale Yhwach's base, since he was the only one capable of dealing with Gremmy and consequently, he would scale Bankai Yama, since Yhwach was the only one who could handle his and Ichibei's power. That would be even more consistent in my opinion, as I would only scale the three.

What are your views on this?

 

[Zoro21043]

I've been thinking about some things that in my opinion make sense.
Gremmy was able to imagine all the power of Zaraki, however, he forgot or could not create a body so strong, however, that would still scale Gremmy because he could imagine all the power of Zaraki, which in this case would be 11.78 Petatons. So Gremmy should have a High 6-A key.

With that, he would scale Yhwach's base, since he was the only one capable of dealing with Gremmy and consequently, he would scale Bankai Yama, since Yhwach was the only one who could handle his and Ichibei's power. That would be even more consistent in my opinion, as I would only scale the three.

What are your views on this?

makes sense

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I've been thinking about some things that in my opinion make sense.
Gremmy was able to imagine all the power of Zaraki, however, he forgot or could not create a body so strong, however, that would still scale Gremmy because he could imagine all the power of Zaraki, which in this case would be 11.78 Petatons. So Gremmy should have a High 6-A key.

With that, he would scale Yhwach's base, since he was the only one capable of dealing with Gremmy and consequently, he would scale Bankai Yama, since Yhwach was the only one who could handle his and Ichibei's power. That would be even more consistent in my opinion, as I would only scale the three.

What are your views on this?

Huh.....i never thought off that but now that you mention it yea you would be correct and to clarify he COULD create a body strong enough but because he was impacient he didnt create a body that was strong.

 

[MetalGearRaiden]

i don't like this ,to be honest (as much as i love Bleach)

Zaraki himself had no idea about his Bankai at that moment, so there is no way Gremmy could imagine his bankai power

unless Gremmy has God tier info analysis (closer to precognition,really), and can Exactly guess his opponent's powers even before they are using it (heck,even before the opponent himself knows about said power)

also,consider this: if gremmy's imagination is THAT strong (to the level of high 6-A), would he even need the second clone to create the meteor? would he even have a 6 clone Limit? if that was the case,then his clone limit would be ~ 30 clones (6 X 5)

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

i don't like this ,to be honest (as much as i love Bleach)
Zaraki himself had no idea about his Bankai at that moment, so there is no way Gremmy could imagine his bankai power

unless Gremmy has God tier info analysis (closer to precognition,really), and can Exactly guess his opponent's powers even before they are using it (heck,even before the opponent himself knows about said power)

also,consider this: if gremmy's imagination is THAT strong (to the level of high 6-A), would he even need the second clone to create the meteor? would he even have a 6 clone Limit? if that was the case,then his clone limit would be ~ 30 clones (6 X 5)

He could also mean he was just gonna copy the power that kenpachi showed so like shikai but not what he does not know like the bankai

 

[Amlad22]

The Aura vs Urahara fight, if those translations are correct, does confirm Aura should be around Large Country Level. So that matter can be settled for now until we can make a calc for her SK Palace feat.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

MissStormCaller trnaslation about Aura been compared to Aizen:

- Aware of the fact that up till this point, the very moves Urahara had played, are the various tactics he had once employed against a Hōgyoku fused Aizen.

"There's no holding back. Let's give it everything we've got." However, that the Fullbringer known as Michibane Aura is a presence that demanded said degree of precaution, Hisagi had also understood this by now.

The narrator again compares Urahara's full incantation Hado 91 to be stronger than current Grimmjow's Gran Rey Cero who Kenpachi wanted to fight.

A cluster of light rays that are spread out in the sky converged before Urahara, forming a high density barrage it bores into the swarm of dark red dragons along with the surrounding atmosphere, burning them away. Oddly enough, it closely resembled the 'Gran Rey Cero' which Grimmjow and his company were unleashing at the same time in the Rukongai.

Even on the aspect of power, it is by no means outdone by Gran Rey Cero, perhaps the blow of a formidable Kidō even has the potential to surpass it.

In this translation it says that Aura didn't receive physical damage from Hado 91 she used her reiatsu and got weaker. IIRC I had read somewhere else that was holding back, maybe that was a bad translation.

"I see, is it that you're also able to manipulate the Reishi of my Kidō after all?" Finally, when the smoke before his eyes cleared away, a lone figure came into sight. As the remnants of what used to be the dark red dragons float around aimlessly in the surroundings, Michibane Aura was standing there flashing a smile that was as bold as ever. "No, if anything, it's like she controlled the soul within nitrogen and constructed it into a barrier… I guess that's how I'd describe it. Oh my, that you're able to do that in the Human World which has a weaker Reishi presence, it is truly an amazing thing."

'With an expression that said it was within expectation that she would not be shot down, Urahara observes Aura. "However, it would appear you couldn't very well get away with no damage." Although she had sustained no obvious external injuries to her body or garments, even Hisagi had sensed the change. Could it be that she had run out of reserve power to dilute her presence by means of Fullbring? Just a moment ago, her Reiatsu should have thinned out completely, but now it can be felt clearly even through Hisagi's Reiatsu Chikaku. Moreover, a fluctuation could be sensed in the Reiatsu itself similar in feeling to exhaustion, Hisagi had concluded that the woman before his eyes was beginning to lose room to manoeuvre. "Phew, that's a relief. If you were to tell me she was unscathed just now, then we would surely need to take measures on the level it took to deal with Aizen Sōsuke after all." "…This is Kidō? It's the first time I've been directly on the receiving end, but it certainly seems like a formidable technique. Looks like I have somewhat underestimated you Shinigami beings." —— I'd be worried if she's taking Urahara san's level as the standard to measure us by….

"I still would not compare Aura to Muken Aizen, seems more like she might be on Condom Aizen if anything" I guess I was right, Aura is more like close to the level of Chrystalis Aizen

 

[Amlad22]

If anything she shouldn't even scale to condom Aizen. Hado 91 actually hurt her in a way where as Aizen tanked 91 while in a triple Bakudo seal with zero damage.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

I've been thinking about some things that in my opinion make sense.

Gremmy was able to imagine all the power of Zaraki, however, he forgot or could not create a body so strong, however, that would still scale Gremmy because he could imagine all the power of Zaraki, which in this case would be 11.78 Petatons. So Gremmy should have a High 6-A key.

With that, he would scale Yhwach's base, since he was the only one capable of dealing with Gremmy and consequently, he would scale Bankai Yama, since Yhwach was the only one who could handle his and Ichibei's power. That would be even more consistent in my opinion, as I would only scale the three.

What are your views on this?

At best it would scale to Shikai Kenpachi with the eyepatch on, but if he gets the AP upgrade, his durability would stay the same, and then there would have to be a note saying that unlike most characters that have AP higher than their dura for special cases, Gremmy's own actually kills him if he uses that much. For all intents and purposes its kind of a useless upgrade since its not combat applicable

 

[AppleLord]

If anything she shouldn't even scale to condom Aizen. Hado 91 actually hurt her in a way where as Aizen tanked 91 while in a triple Bakudo seal with zero damage.

You may have not read what I quoted, so I'll nutshell for you.

• Aura didn't received physical damage from Hado 91 with full incantation from a stronger Urahara than the one who fought Aizen.

• Urahara's attack was said to be stronger than current Grimmjow's gran Rey zero. Same Grimmjow Kenpachi was interested in fighting.

• Aura's reiatsu was drained by the Hado 91 and she still managed to stalemate hado 99 while weaken.

• The narrator compares her to Hogyoku fused Aizen, but that could be any Aizen since current Aizen is technically fused with the Hogyoku and "Muken Aizen" is a fan term for TYBW Aizen.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Stop, we're not making Aura 5-B. I don't even know how you'd come to this conclusion.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

You may have not read what I quoted, so I'll nutshell for you.

• Aura didn't received physical damage from Hado 91 with full incantation from a stronger Urahara than the one who fought Aizen.

• Urahara's attack was said to be stronger than current Grimmjow's gran Rey zero. Same Grimmjow Kenpachi was interested in fighting.

• Aura's reiatsu was drained by the Hado 91 and she still managed to stalemate hado 99 while weaken.

• The narrator compares her to Hogyoku fused Aizen, but that could be any Aizen since current Aizen is technically fused with the Hogyoku and "Muken Aizen" is a fan term for TYBW Aizen.

Apple, Urahara is literally fighting her like how he fought Aizen with the Hougyoku and while Muken Aizen should have it he doesn't even use it at this point. Besides the fact some people actually think he doesn't have it kinda puts it apart. Also usually when someone talks about a Hougyoku enhanced Aizen almost anyone would immediately think back of when he was going through his Chrystalis stages

 

[Ovrhide]

i really need to see the scan where it is specifically stated she was comparable to hougyoku fused aizen, cause i swear i didnt see any hogyoku around that statement.


not like it matters, she wont be 5-B, or 5-C, or 6-A for the matter.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

i really need to see the scan where it is specifically stated she was comparable to hougyoku fused aizen, cause i swear i didnt see any hogyoku around that statement.


not like it matters, she wont be 5-B, or 5-C, or 6-A for the matter.

Aware of the fact that up till this point, the very moves Urahara had played, are the various tactics he had once employed against a Hōgyoku fused Aizen.

"There's no holding back. Let's give it everything we've got." However, that the Fullbringer known as Michibane Aura is a presence that demanded said degree of precaution, Hisagi had also understood this by now.

 

[Baldurgate]

Why Kugo(CFYOW) is so weak?

In base, he was stronger than Tokinada(~Byakuya/Yoru) In bankai, it was stated that he have a chances versus released Hikone

So high 6-B for base and possible high 6-A for "hollowed" bankai


Also release multipliers for CFYOW arrancars is kinda...low? Paralysed Ikomikidomoe(who was ~Hikone) was oneshotted by Grimmjow's&Luppi's combo. One Grimmjow's GRC was compared to "weakened" 91 Urahara's kido. His Desgarron was ~ 8 GRC from Luppi, who was near him in power. Its really big boost. So, maybe 6-A for released arrancars will be good.

 

[AppleLord]

Why Kugo(CFYOW) is so weak?
In base, he was stronger than Tokinada(~Byakuya/Yoru) In bankai, it was stated that he have a chances versus released Hikone

So high 6-B for base and possible high 6-A for "hollowed" bankai


Also release multipliers for CFYOW arrancars is kinda...low? Paralysed Ikomikidomoe(who was ~Hikone) was oneshotted by Grimmjow's&Luppi's combo. One Grimmjow's GRC was compared to "weakened" 91 Urahara's kido. His Desgarron was ~ 8 GRC from Luppi, who was near him in power. Its really big boost. So, maybe 6-A for released arrancars will be good.

Actually, Hado 91 tweaked Aura by damaging her reiatsu. Urahara's Hado 91 was a full incantation.

 

[USklaverei]

At best it would scale to Shikai Kenpachi with the eyepatch on, but if he gets the AP upgrade, his durability would stay the same, and then there would have to be a note saying that unlike most characters that have AP higher than their dura for special cases, Gremmy's own actually kills him if he uses that much. For all intents and purposes its kind of a useless upgrade since its not combat applicable

I don't think it would be Shikai Kenny, since, like it or not, this form of Gremmy was already comparable to Shikai Kenny, so why did he imagine the power would explode?
Bankai Kenny's power was already with him, but he just didn't know, since Yachiru had already returned to Zanpakuto mode.
And no, it wouldn't be a big deal, but whether or not I would cast other characters and that would make it more consistent with quotes like Yama and Ichibei.

 

[Damage3245]

This isn't meant to be everyone, but to just establish a baseline, this is what some of the ratings would be if some of the Shinigami were scaled to their Pre-Timeskip selves:

- Shinigami

Sui-Feng

Speed: Relativistic (At least as fast as her Pre-Timeskip self), higher with Shunkō (Able to blitz BG9 on more than one occasion)

Marechiro Omaeda

Speed: Relativistic (Is fast enough to retrieve Suì-Fēng from BG9 and move to a further area despite him focusing his attention on her and can sense people with accurate descriptions. His attack was able to hit BG9)

Kenpachi Zaraki (Post-Timeskip)

Speed: Relativistic (At least as fast as his Pre-Timeskip self)

Retsu Unohana

Speed: Relativistic (Kept up with Kenpachi Zaraki during his training)

Byakuya Kuchiki (Post-Timeskip)

Speed: Relativistic (At least as fast as his Pre-Timeskip self)

Sajin Komamura (Thousand Year Blood War Arc)

Speed: Relativistic (At least as fast as his Pre-Timeskip self)

- Quincy

BG9

Speed: Relativistic (Able to keep up with and surprise Sui-Feng)

Royd Lloyd

Speed: Relativistic (Easily defeated Kenpachi Zaraki)

Bambietta

Speed: Relativistic (Able to keep up with Sajin Komamura)

- Fullbringers

Shükurō Tsukishima (Fullbring Arc)

Speed: Relativistic (Can keep up with Byakuya and dodge his attacks)

Kugo Ginjo

Speed: Relativistic (Kept up with Tsukishima albeit he was not serious and was more interested in Ichigo)

 

[Jo-Smooth]

I don't think it would be Shikai Kenny, since, like it or not, this form of Gremmy was already comparable to Shikai Kenny, so why did he imagine the power would explode?
Bankai Kenny's power was already with him, but he just didn't know, since Yachiru had already returned to Zanpakuto mode.
And no, it wouldn't be a big deal, but whether or not I would cast other characters and that would make it more consistent with quotes like Yama and Ichibei.
Shikai Kenpachi scales from casually 1 shotting Gremmy's meteor. I'm by no means trying to downplay Gremmy but idk. I can't say if he can accurately gauge a form that hasn't even been used yet with his Information Analysis, but either way it's not combat applicable for him

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I don't understand this scaling. Your fix is to slap "as fast as they're were 17 months ago" As opposed to using common sense?

Kenpachi doesn't have a Fullbringer arc key, Why is Unohana rel? A captain who everyone fears and is usually treated in the same regard as Yama.

This scaling only works in your own head because you choose to ignore certain things.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; Kenpachi does have a Post-Timeskip key.

When is Unohana treated to be as fast as Yama?

 

[USklaverei]

Shikai Kenpachi scales from casually 1 shotting Gremmy's meteor. I'm by no means trying to downplay Gremmy but idk. I can't say if he can accurately gauge a form that hasn't even been used yet with his Information Analysis, but either way it's not combat applicable for him

On second thought, Kenpachi was still wearing his eye patch, so the most that I could climb would be Shikai Kenny without an eye patch.

 

[USklaverei]

You were supposed to make a stopover from Shikai Renji and not that '-'

Did it take you all this time to do that?

 

[Damage3245]

@USKlaverei; please do not quote large posts.

And no, I do have more notes written up (and I'm most of the way through a reread of the arc), but I wanted to post something initially to see what the responses would be.

Not every character scales to Shikai Renji. I think it would be good to nail down the scaling for those that don't first.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Obviously, the key isn't even used. It's not part of his profile since all be did was 1 shot Giriko.

Unohana was only ever harmed by a single person, there is a reason she was sent to fight Kenpachi. She's been around since Yama started. Everyone fears her.