Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel) (Part 2)

[Sekkonds.]

They're both captain level,never shown to have any abnormal speed

Meanwhile sui feng is a captain who is known for her speed,who has one of the fastest shunpo in SS

What is your honest opinion?

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; no, there's no reason to think she was the exact same speed in the Thousand Year Blood War Arc as she was 10 years later, since it has been demonstrated in Bleach that characters can become much faster and stronger in short periods of time.

@Sekkonds; the statement only applies to the Fake Karakura Town Arc since that's when the statement was made. It can't be used as the same justification a few arcs later when other characters have clearly gotten faster than they were before.

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord; no, there's no reason to think she was the exact same speed in the Thousand Year Blood War Arc as she was 10 years later, since it has been demonstrated in Bleach that characters can become much faster and stronger in short periods of time.
@Sekkonds; the statement only applies to the Fake Karakura Town Arc since that's when the statement was made. It can't be used as the same justification a few arcs later when other characters have clearly gotten faster than they were before.

There was a 10 year period of peace and Yhwach stated that the Gotei 13 was defeated and Yamamoto was killed because they got weaker over that period of peace. In any case we could just add another key to Soifon?

 

[Damage3245]

You could create another key for her, if you want.

But for her Thousand Year Blood War Arc key, I think that we just rate her speed as being at least as fast as she was in the Fake Karakura Town Arc and see how that affects the scaling.

 

[AppleLord]

"Godly Speed: In this form, Hikone's speed is said to be "godly," as they managed to cover the area between the ground and the sky in an instant."

Godly speed is a combination of all forms of speed in Bleach by the hybrid Hikone in her/his ressurection form. Could we make a calc? Hikone traveled the same distance that Ichigo did to the new Soul King palace created by Aura in the Valle of screams in an instant? Hikone covered the distance twice. First Hikone dive down in base form, Grimmjow had a speech, and Hikone arrived. The second feat was after Ressurection was activated, Hikone says goodbye and in an "instant" Hikone is back up in the sky castle talking with Kenpachi.

We could used 2 distances divided by "Scientists have measured how long it takes to travel somewhere 'in an instant' - at least 10,000 times the speed of light, to be precise." Which is surprising since Ichigo's reiatsu was comparable to Hikone the moment Hikone transformed and in the manga Ichigo killed Yhwach "in an instant" before he could recover his powers. That makes Ichigo x10 FTL.

SK palace distance: 88905600 meters (High End)- XX

Sky distance from the ground: 12000 meters (Low End) - X

 

[AnonymousBlank]

>10,000c

>x10 FTL

???

 

[AppleLord]

>10,000c
>x10 FTL

???

Yes, I got FTL X 12 for the low-end calc for Hikone.

And ((88 905 600 meters) / 10 000) * the speed of light = 2.66532284×10^12 m2/s for the High-End

 

[AppleLord]

Wouldn't the Fullbring Aura scale to Aizen and Soul King Yhwach? Aura is the Soul King's Binding Chain (Saketsu) Aura was comparable to Aizen in power by Urahara that yelled at Hisagi not to confront her and in the end Urahara was defeated by her. Aura created a replica of the Soul King Palace like Yhwach did. Do we have a calc for this? I think the novel characters should get new calc feats and keys since there is a 3-6 months time skip, Grimmjow got stronger, Kenpachi got stronger by scaling from Hikone who was comparable to Ichigo and Aura is comparable to Aizen, and Ginjo is comparable to Ichigo too. We need to calc new feats and create new keys.

 

[AstralKing7]

Wasn't scaling Aura already disagreed on???

 

[AppleLord]

Wasn't scaling Aura already disagreed on???

Yes, because we didn't know what "Aizen" Urahara was talking about but since Aura created a replica of the Soul King palace like Yhwach did we could calc that and have a similar feat, so that would put Aura around Muken Aizen level since that Aizen fought Yhwach. I think we should wait for the novel better translations to finish before making that calc.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Yes, because we didn't know what "Aizen" Urahara was talking about but since Aura created a replica of the Soul King palace like Yhwach did we could calc that and have a similar feat, so that would put Aura around Muken Aizen level since that Aizen fought Yhwach. I think we should wait for the novel better translations to finish before making that calc.

Yhwach did his Soul King Palace after sometime after becoming the Soul King, not sure if it would apply since right after this he went to sleep and got stronger via absorbing souls

 

[USklaverei]

At what point do we get lost?

 

[Naeblis495]

what is even happening here ?

 

[Sekkonds.]

Anyway what do you guys think about sui feng thing?imo she should really be comparable to other captains,it makes no sense to assume she is slower than them

 

[Damage3245]

@Sekkonds; well, perhaps she isn't slower than them, and therefore their scaling to FTL is flawed as well.

 

[USklaverei]

Nemu blitzed Sui Feng, new era

 

[Sekkonds.]

Can you explain your quote?

 

[Amlad22]

Aura should only scale to Base Aizen going off of her feats. She's on the same level as Tokinada, and she only barley beat Shikai Urahara who harmed her with Hado 91 and destroyed her elemental attack with Hado 99. Unless we're gonna try and say Shikai Urahara is Planet Level now.

 

[Naeblis495]

i agree with that. i don't see Aura scaling higher than base Aizen .

Maybe a bit higher with non combat applicable stuff ? but not EoS Aizen level for sure .

 

[AppleLord]

Aura should only scale to Base Aizen going off of her feats. She's on the same level as Tokinada, and she only barley beat Shikai Urahara who harmed her with Hado 91 and destroyed her elemental attack with Hado 99. Unless we're gonna try and say Shikai Urahara is Planet Level now.

This is wrong is so many levels. Tokinada isn't stronger than Aura and if he is Tokinada should scale from Aura not the other way around. I don't remember Tokinada showing better feats than Aura.

Aura tanked Hado 91 from a stronger version of Urahara that managed to hold Shinigami Aizen in placed with the same Kido. That alone puts her above Shinigami Aizen and Aura's dragon and Hado 99 canceled each other out. Urahara lost to Aura and she was holding back and Yukio "kidnapped/save Urahara" from Aura killing him.

The light novels should get a different key since there is a 3-6 month time skip I believe since the Yhwach arc and characters got stronger like Grimmjow who Kenpachi wanted to fight. Aura was able to replica Yhwach's feat of the Soul King Palace and fight others while holding the castle in the sky and even intercepted an attack that was meant for Ressurected Hikone without having to dropped the Soul King Palace castle.

Aura should at least be comparable to Muken Aizen who didn't even scratched SK Yhwach. Aura is at least comparable to casual SK Yhwach.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

...

 

[Jo-Smooth]

The light novel states the Gremmy was the second strongest sternrritter and only one other Quincy defeated him in battle before, Base Yhwach. That puts Base Yhwach above every single Quincy including God Gerard since this was stated after SK Yhwach was defeated and sealed.

If the 5x multi for Vollstandig is actually accepted, then that's not anti feat/statement for Gerard, Toshiro and Byakuya. It shouldn't affect them scaling to Bankai Kenpachi due to God Gerard being => Shikai Kenpachi without the eyepatch

If anything, Gremmy hasn't shown to be able to handle Shikai Kenny with the patch while God Gerard matched Shikai Kenny without it on terms of physical stats

Not discrediting the statement, just saying. Either way it shouldn't affect the 3 I mentioned negatively. They already have "possibly Multi Continental" in the proposed update, so it would change the Possibly to a solid and up the FTL speed to FTL+. Though thats only if the 5x is accepted.

On a different note, as for the speed issue, so the definite uncontested FTL characters are Post Royal Guard Training Renji and everyone that scales to/above him? And the contested ones are the Lieutenant's and Captain's that dont exactly scale to his feat?

 

[Zezu1995]

gerald and barro should have multiple multipliers they have more than 1 volstandig

 

[Damage3245]

Gerard isn't confirmed to have a second Vollständig. He just gets more powerful due to the Miracle.

Whereas Lille Barro isn't implied to get any faster or stronger after he turns into a chicken man.

 

[Ercosore]

Am I the only one who thinks Urahara having 3 keys to be a bit unnecesary? I don´t remember any implication of him getting stronger during the series. Imo we should just be mix his keys into just one High 6B key, same with Yoruichi´s second to fourth keys, since she was canonically weaker during the soul society arc that key should stay and since their fight with Yami seem more like an outlier from Yami´s part.

This would also make Aura being compared to Base Aizen more consistent, since currently we have the problem of her being simultaneously comparable to Urahara, while at the same time being comparable to base Aizen who is currently" At least 6-B".

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Whereas Lille Barro isn't implied to get any faster or stronger after he turns into a chicken man.

Lmao

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Ercosore

Ichigo stalemated Urahara and was able to almost break his shield before SS, next time he fights he is able to stalemate Yammy's Cero who would completely curb stomp start of SS Ichigo while base Ulquiorra slapped away his Benihime, Urahara then went on to fight Aizen in FKT a few months later who is > all of the Espada including Yammy.

Unless you are saying Urahara = Aizen > released Yammy >>> base Ulq > Urahara = SS Ichigo and can convince everyone of this, Kisuke needs those keys.

 

[AppleLord]

stuff

Check post #37 for more info.

"In the end, he imagined power that could overcome Zaraki Kenpachi and made it his own, but because he couldn't completely imagine a body that was able to withstand that power, it resulted in his self-destruction, he awakened from his dreams, and his brain ceased all function."

Gremmy made a mistake and died.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Still, it doesn't discount the scaling if the 5x is true. We don't know how much stronger Gremmy made himself compared to Kenpachi, but would that be combat applicable? Anyways my point isnt to argue about Gremmy, just propose some scaling for the 3 I mentioned and I guess anyone else that would scale

 

[USklaverei]

Renji is 1.29c (FTL)

So, I will make a scale from it:

Shinigami

• Post-Royal Guard Training Rukia (Comparable to Renji)

• Yamamoto (Can easily react to Bazz-B and As Nodt attacking him)

• Toshiro Post Training Shikai (Can accompany Bazz-B)

• Mayuri (Can accompany Toshiro Zumbi)

• Nemu (Can accompany Mayuri and even intercept Pernida's attacks)

• Shunsui (Can accompany Lille)

• Ukitake (comparable to Shunsui)

• Nanao (Manages to follow Shunsui as he advances to attack Lille via Daruma San Ga Koronda)

• Komamura (Can accompany and surprise Bambietta)

• Sui Feng (Being known for her speed, she shouldn't be less than Toshiro Post Training Shikai)

• Omaeda (Manages to surprise BG9 and catch Sui Feng before he knows it. He can also hit blows directly to him)

• Kisuke (Can accompany Askin)

• Kenpachi (Can accompany Gremmy)

Quincies

• Full Power Mask (Can press Renji with his attacks)

• As Nodt (Can accompany Rukia)

• Bazz-B (Able to fight Renji and Rukia)

• Haschwalth (Blitzed Bazz-B)

• Ishida (Can accompany Haschwalth)

• Liltotto (Can hold Bazz-B. Can dodge Yhwach's Auswahlen)

• Candice (Must be comparable to Liltotto)

• Gisele (Comparable to Liltotto)

• Meninas (Comparable to Liltotto)

• Bambietta (Comparable to Liltotto)

• Gerard Post-Auswahle (Can react and hurt Renji in heads-up, even with Byakuya facing him together)

• Lille (As a member of Schutzstaffel, you should not be less than Sternritters like Lilttoto)

• Aski (One of the fastest members of Schutzstaffel, the only one capable of reacting to Oh-etsu Pre-Auswahlen)

• BG9 (Can accompany Sui Feng)

• Gremmy (Being the strongest member of the Sternrritters, he must be at least comparable to Liltotto)

Arrancars

• Grimmjow (May surprise Kisuke from a good distance)

• Neliell (Must be comparable to Grimmjow)

I didn't do the entire scale and there may possibly be some things wrong, but I think this will only be resolved if we scale it from scratch.

 

[Zezu1995]

question if mask beam meets all the reqs for light, wouldnt all the other quincy skills stated to be light be the same?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

question if mask beam meets all the reqs for light, wouldnt all the other quincy skills stated to be light be the same?

I still would not compare Aura to Muken Aizen, seems more like she might be on Condom Aizen if anything. Replicating Soul King Yhwach depends did she make his Palace or the previous Soul Kimg's also just making the palace is not all Yhwach ripped an entire country from the ground amd reshaped both the original palace and the Silbern into his own palace

unlike Aura who just made a palace

 

[Purgy]

Has there been any conclusions regarding Damage's issues with the scaling yet?

 

[JuniorGabrielXxX]

Ikomikidomoe will never have a Profile ...?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

please dont derail

 

[Damage3245]

@USklaverei; a few issues with that:

> Bazz-B (Able to fight Renji and Rukia)

Bazz-B fighting with Renji and Rukia was off-screen and he wasn't shown to be comparable to them in speed.

> Liltotto (Can hold Bazz-B. Can dodge Yhwach's Auswahlen)

When did Liltotto ever show to be comparable to Bazz-B in speed?

> Sui Feng (Being known for her speed, she shouldn't be less than Toshiro Post Training Shikai)

What is the evidence that she is comparable in speed to Post-Training Toshiro?

> Gremmy (Being the strongest member of the Sternrritters, he must be at least comparable to Liltotto)

Since when does "strongest" mean "fastest"? Why should he scale to Liltotto?

> Nanao (Manages to follow Shunsui as he advances to attack Lille via Daruma San Ga Koronda)

I've already covered in the previous thread that this is extremely weak evidence for a non-fighting Vice Captain to be comparable in speed to the Captain Commander of the Gotei 13. It frankly doesn't make sense. A Shinigami who has never had their own Zanpakuto is fast enough to be quicker than several Captains?

> Lille (As a member of Schutzstaffel, you should not be less than Sternritters like Lilttoto)

Where is it stated that as a member of the Schutzstaffel he must be faster than Liltotto?

> Bambietta (Comparable to Liltotto)

Why is Bambietta comparable to Liltotto?

 

[Purgy]

Sigh... Sorry Damage, I'm trying to understand your arguments but that post is just terrible. "Where is it stated that as a member of the Schutzstaffel he must be faster than Liltotto?" If you're really unable to see what is wrong with this argument, then unfortunately I don't think anybody is going to change your mind, you're completely ignoring common sense here.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; It's just basic evidence-based scaling. If the evidence doesn't exist then it doesn't make sense to say that anyone should be faster than anyone else.

The only way this approach could be wrong is if your standards on evidence were way too relaxed. Profiles filled with just "X should be stronger than Y" and "Y should be faster than Z" are the worst types of profiles on the site.

 

[Purgy]

@Purgy; It's just basic evidence-based scaling. If the evidence doesn't exist then it doesn't make sense to say that anyone should be faster than anyone else.
The only way this approach could be wrong is if your standards on evidence were way too relaxed. Profiles filled with just "X should be stronger than Y" and "Y should be faster than Z" are the worst types of profiles on the site.

So you think it's fine to say Liltotto is faster than Prime Soul King? By your logic, he never fought her and he has no speed feats of his own so there's no way he's faster than her or can be scaled above her, just because somebody lacks feats doesn't mean we should lack logic when it comes to scaling them. Power hierarchy is a thing, Yhwach is above the Elites who are above the Sternritter, the Elites aren't chosen based on their hair style or what shoes they wear, they're chosen because they're above all the other Sternritter including Liltotto.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Gonna have to get another staff here, or else we're gonna be here for about 10 threads considering he hasn't agreed with jack shit yet by thread 2. This is pretty much stonewalling.