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Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I said it before and I’ll say it again.

“Beam of Light” can refer to many different things that generate light but are not natural light, and only the latter is considered light speed as opposed to light given off from another source.

Getting a “beam of light” claim and stopping there shouldn’t count as anything. It’s the claimers burden of proof to prove “Beam of light” equates to being made out of actual natural light.

By giving actual details and context.
Click to expand...
again its not just a statement, there is a reflection too which is accepted by our site standards and even AKM said that its OK for him. also it moves at straight way, its never shown to have different speeds
also again, prove that the statement isn't valid
just because a statement like that can mean many things doesn't mean that it can't be used because yeah it can mean that when its out of context, but I'm asking for a proof from the manga that contradicts this statement being valid or otherwise you can't debunk it,
 
isnt everything in bleach or at least soul society made of spiritual particles? and cant quincies control these particles? it would make sense for them to create light without what we consider sources for light
and one of the requirements say that the origin should be a realistic source for light
dont you all think this is a realistic source ?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I said it before and I’ll say it again.

“Beam of Light” can refer to many different things that generate light but are not natural light, and only the latter is considered light speed as opposed to light given off from another source.
Click to expand...
like wokisan said

"Eh, this doesn't work so well. That emitted light is still going to be traveling at the speed of light. Just because it's coming from me setting a fire doesn't mean the light is suddenly moving slower."
 
Zoro21043 said:
isnt everything in bleach or at least soul society made of spiritual particles? and cant quincies control these particles? it would make sense for them to create light without what we consider sources for light
and one of the requirements say that the origin should be a realistic source for light
dont you all think this is a realistic source ?
Click to expand...
yes everything is made of reishi (spiritual particles)
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
like wokisan said

"Eh, this doesn't work so well. That emitted light is still going to be traveling at the speed of light. Just because it's coming from me setting a fire doesn't mean the light is suddenly moving slower."
Click to expand...
I answered that already. That’s going under the assumption that light given off from some arbitrary bright source is real natural light instead of unnatural light.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I answered that already. That’s going under the assumption that light given off from some arbitrary bright source is real natural light instead of unnatural light.
Click to expand...
and he also gave and answer to that

wokisan

"That isn't actually how that works irl. The source of light doesn't determine its speed, the only thing you can really do to slow it down is make it move through a material instead of a vacuum. Light moves slightly slower in air than the SOL value, slower still in water, etc. Instead, the argument against "beam of light" sort of stuff is just that we don't consider that on its own a high enough standard of proof to get such a fast speed and that it's often contradicted with unrealistic properties."
 
I will say it for the last time

1)you can't just counter a statement from the manga using your opinion, you have to show why its not true from the same manga

2) the statement is supported by a reflection which is accepted in our site standards

3) the statement have other supporting points, it moves in a straight way, its not shown to have different speeds

4) there is no anti feat to it being hyperbolic or whatever
 
Okay but that kinda has nothing to do with what my point was about.

My point wasn’t about the speed of the light, it was about the type and nature of the light itself.

Last I checked, we don’t consider light to be SoL if it isn’t specifically natural in the first place.
 
While people seem to have moved on from the list of characters scaling to FTL, figured I would post this to explain why most of the characters (probably forgot a few from King’s list) scaling has no issues.
Ichigo is a god tier, just got a new form, transcends Shinigami, fights god tiers and bops every non god tier even while holding back and warning them. The Zangetsus scale to him via being the very power that makes him a god tier.

Orihime underwent training with Urahara (same guy who fits 10years of training into 3 days) to fight Yhwach and only has feats of stopping Yhwach.

Uryu got an amp from a god tier and only has feats against god tiers and Jugram (see the Sternritter part below).

Base Aizen has the Schrift, “U - The Übermensch” which scales him above every Shinigami, Hollow and Arrancar not transcendent or Yamamoto even in the novels because yes. Chair-sama is a god tier whose only feats are against god tiers and was said to be > his previous form > every Shinigami and Hollow.

Urahara and Yoruichi both have new forms and underwent training with their previous scaling being that they could fight base Aizen “The Übermensch” Sōsuke.

Byakuya was already stronger than Renji and underwent the same training.

Rukia underwent the same training as Renji and also kept up with him.

Toshiro spent 18 months training his Bankai which is what has all his FTL scaling and even entered a new form just to be relevant.

Mayuri body mods the whole time. He even dipped from the fighting to prep for the war.

Nemu has no feats or before this and still burned large portions of her lifespan to be relevant.

Speaking of body mods, Mayuri explicitly made Luppi stronger.

Grimmjow only scales to Askin and Luppi after he spent 17+ months getting stronger.

Nel finally got control of her reiatsu with her only prior feats being >>> Nnoitra.

Hikone was just introduced and does nothing but get stronger for the whole novel and only fights FTL people.

Aura was just introduced and only fights people who are FTL.

Fullbringers were just training for most of TYBW and only fight people FTL people.

Squad Zero people who were just introduced and the guys who trained Renji, only having feats against Base Yhwach

Yushiro was just introduced and only has feats against Askin.

Kenpachi just got done training and only fought the strongest Quincy > Renji.

All Sternritter were just introduced and the guys who scale to the feat were either involved with it, bopped everyone else they fought, or only fought people who scale to FTL.

All of the SS are said to transcend the rest of the Sternritter besides Gremmy with Gerard tagging Renji.
For the light being the speed of light, that’s what the requirements are for. It’s said to be light so we run through them and check off the ones that it qualifies for. Valid source of info says it is made of light, it reflects off of a sword, it has no anti feats and has the same effects the page even mentions would support it being a proper laser.
 
Not gonna lie, this is needlessly strict, it's called a beam of light and moves straight... There isn't an issue with having the attack be Light Speed
 
Mitch’s point is that it is called light, does a bunch of stuff light is meant to do and gets reflected (I know you disagree on this but it is what it is and I doubt anyone is gonna convince the other at this point). There isn’t anything that goes against it having the properties of light.
 
I agree with Mitch entirely here. I don’t think it needs to be that specific and scientifically accurate, it really just seems... nitpicky to try and say that it’s not legit because of that.
 
Since Renji's blade is partially black, wouldn't it just absorb the light instead of reflecting it, at least when struck there?
 
Duedate8898 said:
Since Renji's blade is partially black, wouldn't it just absorb the light instead of reflecting it, at least when struck there?
Click to expand...
it absorb some of it but not all of it

i dont think anything can absorb 100% (well i would guess mayuri and urahara could have something like that)
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I said it before and I’ll say it again.

“Beam of Light” can refer to many different things that generate light but are not natural light, and only the latter is considered light speed as opposed to light given off from another source.

Getting a “beam of light” claim and stopping there shouldn’t count as anything. It’s the claimers burden of proof to prove “Beam of light” equates to being made out of actual natural light.

By giving actual details and context.
Click to expand...
lasers in General are referred to beams of light. Its even shown to act like a laser
 
Just saying but there are a lot of series that have statement of something it being called light yet we still look for more criteria for it. The only thing that (Idk why) that pretty much gets a pass with just this certain criteria is it being from the novel
 
BlackeJan said:
Just saying but there are a lot of series that have statement of something it being called light yet we still look for more criteria for it. The only thing that (Idk why) that pretty much gets a pass with just this certain criteria is it being from the novel
Click to expand...
Of course, being stated to be a beam of light etc. Is just one

So we must have others to clasify it

Is not simply "beam of light" ok so it it is

No one is saying that just cus of that it qualifies but that it meets one of the requirements
 
Cyber contacted me on discord and asked if i'd be fine with a compromise of a likely/possibly for it, since there's room for questioning and with weird reflection.. I personally am fine with that, though leaning more towards a likely.
 
It meets only one requirement. The statement itself is not reliable.

"The villain shall die... by the hero's beam of light"
"The villain shall be defeated by the hero's punch of justice"

Same energy. Idk how anybody could take this statement literally tbh. This isn't stated as some matter-of-fact thing. This is literally a hero telling a villain that he will be defeated by his light. If it would have been something like "beam made of light", it would have been much more matter-of-fact.
 
AKM sama said:
It meets only one requirement. The statement itself is not reliable.

"The villain shall die... by the hero's beam of light"
"The villain shall be defeated by the hero's punch of justice"

Same energy. Idk how anybody could take this statement literally tbh. This isn't stated as some matter-of-fact thing. This is literally a hero telling a villain that he will be defeated by his light. If it would have been something like "beam made of light", it would have been much more matter-of-fact.
Click to expand...
AKM, can you please show from the manga why it can't be a light? this is your interpretation and your opinion, we respect that but does the manga agrees with you?
Is there anything from the manga which support this interpretation?
afaik the manga supports it being true and its light, If you have something from the manga which supports your interpretation please put a link here
 
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