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Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

The novels and manga acknowledged the concept of lighting speed and light speed so i don't see why it can't be moving at light speed. We excepted Candice lightning to be lighting speed without a single statement.
So why isn't this the same for light based attacks
 
is there really a major difference between saying something is of light, and something is made of light. They seem very similar to me
 
No there really isn't, the word of is used to show possession, belonging, or origin
dictionary.cambridge.org

of

1. used to show possession, belonging, or origin: 2. used after words or…
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org
 
If there wasn't a major difference between saying something is light and saying something is specifically made of photons/light, we wouldn't have it as an additional supporting point and literally every attack with "light" in it's name would have been accepted as lightspeed. lol

This is just a misunderstanding caused by wording that you're not getting for some reason.
 
AKM sama said:
If there wasn't a major difference between saying something is light and saying something is specifically made of photons/light, we wouldn't have it as an additional supporting point and literally every attack with "light" in it's name would have been accepted as lightspeed. lol

This is just a misunderstanding caused by wording that you're not getting for some reason.
Click to expand...
Mask's attack name isn't "Beam of light that kills all villains"
The name of his attack is Star flash/Hero flash
The rest of his dialogue is him giving further context on this attack. So no this isn't the name of his attack.
Saying beam of light specifically means a beam made out of light.
 
Torsin said:
The rest of his dialogue is him giving further context on this attack.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry for not being convinced with a statement that goes like:

"The villain shall die... by the hero's beam of light"

I can argue this simply not meant to be taken literally given the flowery context that revolves around "villain", "hero", "light", "darkness".

And that's not even what I am arguing because I don't need to. If it were something like "beam that is made of photons", that would have been much direct, and your point about exposition would have been correct.
 
You dont need to be sorry for anything. Well this flowery context is literal because Mask's schrift is literally S- Superhero meaning he cheers himself on as a hero.( this isn't headcannon this is literally his ability)The villain would be the captain and his beam of light got rid of him.

It doesn't need be said to be made out of photons to be considered as fulfilling the criteria. It being made out if light as well can be considered which is why the requirement says "made out out of photon or light"
 
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Torsin said:
Well this flowery context is literal because Mask's schrift is literally S- Superhero meaning he cheers himself on as a hero.( this isn't headcannon this is literally his ability)The villain would be the captain and his beam of light got rid of him.
Click to expand...
Him being a hero doesn't change how his statement is delivered. Like you said, if he is cheering himself with the word "hero", calling the opponent "villain", that means he is deliberately being extravagant in his speech, which means the statement should not be taken literally. This is like All Might going in some hero philosophical shit and saying "The villain shall be defeated by the Hero's punch of justice". Doesn't make his punch of justice be literal. He is just cheering himself to create hype. The use of "beam of light" can be the same here when it is against villains who are seen as related to darkness.

Torsin said:
which is why the requirement says "made out out of photon or light"
Click to expand...
Well, it's not saying "beam made of light" either. So the point is weak.
 
That’s ridiculous. Nothing about his statement is flowery at all. He states it pretty clearly what the ability is. Him calling himself a hero doesn’t discredit his statement at all.

How could you even come to the conclusion this isn’t a literal statement.
image0.jpg
 
How could you even come to the conclusion this isn’t a literal statement.
Click to expand...
I provided my reasons above in my last comment. Although, that point won't need to be debated because as far as I am concerned, the feat does not fulfill the required conditions for being light speed, which should be clarified in Tempest's thread soon. Not to mention our standards also say that the burden of proof is higher when there are no other close to lightspeed scenarios in the series.
 
And your reasoning regarding said statement is wrong. Randomly saying “hyperbole” based off him saying he’s a hero isn’t a counter argument.

That doesn’t mean you need more requirements AKM.
Additionally, if a series is very close to lightspeed or exceeds it in several other calcs and scenarios (such as what is seen in DBZ), there is less of a burden of proof to show that the laser is a true laser.
Click to expand...
This is just some additional thing added for further support. It literally says that.

As for Tempest thread none of the issues are actually even being addressed besides saying “looks fine to me” when clearly that isn’t the case since one of the standards has literally been used another way for YEARS as far as I can tell.

The 3rd post on this thread is Damage saying that’s the only requirement Mask met.

You said it’s being used improperly, and in the other thread Damage states the wording is clear and doesn’t need a change so I’m very confused here?
 
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I don't know how to formulate this but everyone on this wiki CAN YOU BE ******* FAIR?
all the verses have upgrades and downgrades and they discuss the primary source material, no verse discuss what we do here like sound or new requirements I have never seen something like that with another verse, just because you don't think that bleach should be at this level doesn't mean you should go in details that even the Author doesn't care about, honestly this attitude should be stopped many knowledgeable fans are leaving the wiki because of many reasons including this one, we should try to solve problems not ignore them and do what we subjectively believe to be true even if it disagrees with the source material and contradicts the mechanism of the bleachverse.
That's all what I'm gonna say I know that this is off topic and apologize for that. I'm unfollowing this thread, have a nice day
 
Okay. We do this for every verse though. Stop playing the victim card. If there isn't enough evidence, there isn't enough evidence. You making a rant about it won't change a thing.

I don't think I am being unfair in my judgment here. Others still have a problem with the reflection thing, I don't. I am fine with that point. Others had a problem with the sound thing, I dropped it because it didn't seem that important. Others might have a problem with this being an outlier, I won't argue that.

But when it comes to following the standards, I believe I am in the right for questioning the things I am questioning.

Whether the statement is meant to be literal or not, is up to interpretation. I gave my reasons as to why I think what I think. You may think differently, and that's fine.

Even if the statement is taken literally, I am questioning whether it is as per the requirements of our standards because of the specific wording our requirement uses. It's a valid point according to me.

Whether this is sufficient evidence for a verse that doesn't have anything other near light speed is another valid point according to the standards because then it increases the burden of providing undeniable evidence.

Stop thinking that whatever anybody thinks about a verse will get accepted without there being a proper discussion about it and without people questioning it.
 
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Catalyst75 said:
ALL MATTER creates curvature in space-time. The thing is that it generally requires a lot of mass-energy in one place for that curvature to be noticeable or significant. Gravitational lensing is used in astronomy because of how massive celestial bodies are, from stars to black holes to galaxies.

Just applying E=MC^2 tells all one needs to know about why your specific argument can't work. The curvature caused by 9x10^16 Joules worth of light concentrated in a certain volume is the same as 1 kg of matter within the same volume; 1 ton = 9 x 10^19 Joules; 1000 Tons = 9 x 10^22 Joules, and so on.

Not to mention that any curvature of space-time caused by mass-energy in real life follows the Speed of Causality. If you were to suddenly remove the Sun from the centre of the Solar System, it'd still take 8 minutes for Earth to stop moving along its orbital path and start moving in a straight line. In other words, any curvature of space-time that "persists" even though the energy causing it has already been scattered to the wind i.e. there is no continual source of energy keeping the space warped, is purely for "rule of cool's" sake, thus unquantifiable.

--------------------------

Then there is the fact that no Cero in Bleach has never behaved in any way like natural light. Cero and other spiritual energy-based attacks almost always physically clash with one another in the common Beam-O-War scenario, whereas natural light beams would just pass through each other unimpeded.

Ceros and other reiryoku-based attacks, like Getsuga Tenshou and Quincy reishi arrows, are consistently shown to have a tangible mass to them. They can be physically halted and stopped; they can be redirected by hand; they can be "shattered" and dissipated. The exact opposite of "intangible", as you've tried to claim before.
Click to expand...
By characters who have the power to interact with “intangible” objects and souls. Is in their profiles look at it. You can also find the thread about it. All of these claims that you make happened in the intangible world to humans where the characters we know of can touch and interact with it.
 
If you are obsessed with the word "made" and think that is the only way to meet that qualifications then no.
 
Arcker123 said:
If you are obsessed with the word "made" and think that is the only way to meet that qualifications then no.
Click to expand...
Go read the staff discussion about this topic and see how many people agree or disagree with you, then we can have this conversation
 
Yes actually it does.

Attack is Star Flash, It is stated to be a beam of light therefore it is light.

If I used an attack called ice beam and stated it is a beam of ice are you going to ask me for a citation sayings it's actually made of ice?
 
Being called a beam of light would logically mean it's well made of light.
Click to expand...

You can say it like that for every other requirement.

Being called a beam of light would logically mean it refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
Being called a beam of light would logically mean it reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror
Being called a beam of light would logically mean it is lightspeed
Being called a beam of light would logically mean it is made of photons or light itself
Being called a beam of light would logically mean it is lightspeed
 
No, I can't say it like that for any other requirement because it only really works for that said requirement. Since said requirement is pretty much asking is it light.

Seeing as the 1st sentence on the requirement page says most laser attacks aren't real in fiction.
 
AKM sama said:
Being called a beam of light would logically mean it is lightspeed
Click to expand...
Personally without a direct speed statement I'm always iffy with one evidence SoL assumptions.

But as long as there's more than just the name and it operates as a beam I dont see why it can't be usable as long as it isn't inconsistent with the series speed wise.
 
But as long as there's more than just the name and it operates as a beam I dont see why it can't be usable as long as it isn't inconsistent with the series speed wise.
Click to expand...

I think it's fairly inconsistent. Characters jump up to FTL speed from previously MHS+ or Sub-Rel speeds for no real reason.
 
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