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Bleach: Muken's Size and God Tiers

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Arc7Kuroi said:
VIZ supports that Unohana is talking about the size.
Click to expand...
As pointed above, VIZ is not always accurate regarding this.
Arc7Kuroi said:
It can be translated as "infinite space" Kenpachi calls it an "infinite hell" contextually it is infinite.
Click to expand...
The latter part doesn't necessarily mean infinite in size. And the former part already sounds vague from what Matt has said.

I'm gonna disagree with this until I see any undeniable evidence. This seems to be just pushing for a statistic based on misinterpreting a vague statement.
 
Zoro21043 said:
the sentence sounds poorly translated the other translation i gave seemed more right but either way if u take the context
Click to expand...
I actually see the phrase "infinitely equal" / "infinitely similar" pop up a lot in anime and manga. It seems to be a Japanese thing that doesn't translate very well to English.
 
Ionliosite said:
Ok, I personally find it funny that you're saying both "VIZ didn't translate this quote accurately" and "VIZ supports this interpretation". Like, make up your mind, is VIZ supporting your point or is it mistranslating?
Click to expand...
Schrodinger's Statement / Translation is quite the common tactic with statements like these.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
I already talked about the problem with doing this. The one quote about "infinitely equal" we keep referring to isn't necessarily talking about literal infinite size, and the other two quotes are not necessarily literal either, with the later of the two "infinite darkness" being the least literal of the three.
Click to expand...
Ok we know Unohana is referring to the size of Muken with her statement.

The one quote about "infinitely equal size" could also be "equivalent space to infinity" so the issue is which is it.

Kenpachi calls it an "infinite hell" we know he can't possibly be referring to infinite suffering as you'd suggest, because there is literally nothing in Muken. The only thing that makes sense is if Kenpachi is calling this hell infinite in terms of size, because the only notable aspect of Muken is it's immense size.

Ionliosite said:
Ok, I personally find it funny that you're saying both "VIZ didn't translate this quote accurately" and "VIZ supports this interpretation". Like, make up your mind, is VIZ supporting your point or is it mistranslating?
Click to expand...
VIZ is supporting the fact that Unohana is talking about size. VIZ mistranslated how Unohana referred to the size of Muken.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Kenpachi calls it an "infinite hell" we know he can't possibly be referring to infinite suffering as you'd suggest, because there is literally nothing in Muken
Click to expand...
You do realize that this supports the argument. They can be using the term infinite to emphasize how absolutely empty it is.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
Schrodinger's Translation. Either Viz is right and it's not infinite or VIZ is wrong and her statement is worthless.
Click to expand...
VIZ doesn't have to be 100% right or wrong. Just because VIZ translated "almost infinite" incorrectly doesn't mean Unohana isn't talking about size.

Matthew_Schroeder said:
You do realize that this supports the argument. They can be using the term infinite to emphasize how absolutely empty it is.
Click to expand...
If it's absolute emptiness is infinite that means it's an infinite space.
 

Former Captain of Fifth Company. He betrayed the Soul Society and engaged in a war against the Thirteen Court Guard Companies. Currently imprisoned in Mugen

this is from vol 1 of cfyow by viz
mugen=infinite
it supports what unohana said about the name correlating with the size
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
VIZ doesn't have to be 100% right or wrong. Just because VIZ translated "almost infinite" incorrectly doesn't mean Unohana isn't talking about size.
Click to expand...
It's one or the other. You either agree with it or you don't. You can't have your cake and eat it too. "Oh no no no they are right that it's referring to size but they are wrong about the size".

Just stop, it's embarrassing.

Arc7Kuroi said:
If it's absolute emptiness is infinite that means it's an infinite space.
Click to expand...
Alexa, what does an infinite amount of nothing equal to?
 
Again, infinite hell =/= infinite sized hell.

Only the latter kind of statement will be considered for tiering purposes. The former does not necessarily mean the latter.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
It's one or the other. You either agree with it or you don't. You can't have your cake and eat it too. "Oh no no no they are right that it's referring to size but they are wrong about the size".

Just stop, it's embarrassing.
Click to expand...
It is not one or the other. Unohana referring to size is not contradicted no need to question VIZ's translations for the word "size"

"almost infinite" is the only mistranslation from VIZ.

Matthew_Schroeder said:
Alexa, what does an infinite amount of nothing equal to?
Click to expand...
Emptiness refers to a space. So you're claiming Muken has 0 space?

Zoro21043 said:

Former Captain of Fifth Company. He betrayed the Soul Society and engaged in a war against the Thirteen Court Guard Companies. Currently imprisoned in Mugen
this is from vol 1 of cfyow by viz
mugen=infinite
it supports what unohana said about the name correlating with the size
Click to expand...
this supports my claim
 
I can play the exact same game you guys are playing, you know? Watch!

JP Kanji: 僕は新世界の神となる。
Romaji: Boku wa shinsekai no kami to naru.
EN Translation: I will become a god of the new world.

A "god" refers to a supreme being that is omnipotent, a creator, a first cause.
dictionary.cambridge.org

god

1. a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and…
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org

"world" refers to the universe. See the Japanese word, "Sekai", which can be used to mean universe.

"A god of the new world" is a being who will create a new universe.

I advocate thus for Low 2-C Light Yagami from Death Note.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
It's one or the other. You either agree with it or you don't. You can't have your cake and eat it too. "Oh no no no they are right that it's referring to size but they are wrong about the size".
Click to expand...
the raw doesnt contradict unohana talking about mukens size tho

how else can a
"as the sound of its name suggests" be interpreted as


"

"A god of the new world" is a being who will create a new universe."

the context is different , here unohana is correlating the name and the size
the name itself is muken in manga and mugen in the novel which literally translates to infinity
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
I can play the exact same game you guys are playing, you know? Watch!

JP Kanji: 僕は新世界の神となる。
Romaji: Boku wa shinsekai no kami to naru.
EN Translation: I will become a god of the new world.

A "god" refers to a supreme being that is omnipotent, a creator, a first cause.
dictionary.cambridge.org

god

1. a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and…
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org

"world" refers to the universe. See the Japanese word, "Sekai", which can be used to mean universe.

"A god of the new world" is a being who will create a new universe.

I advocate thus for Low 2-C Light Yagami from Death Note.
Click to expand...
The scenarios are not at all similar.

Unohana compares the Underground Prison to a space infinite in size. Kenpachi supports this. CFYOW I calls the prison Mugen which just means infinite. CFYOW III says it houses infinite darkness. The only notable quality of this prison is its vast size. The fact it's called Infinite, Unohana says it has infinite space, Kenpachi says it's an infinite hell, and CFYOW III says it has infinite darkness should be enough.
 
i understand why infinite darkness/hell isnt taken seriously but
the fact that the name translates to infinite
and unohana also says it is infinite in size as the name says thus connecting the two and proving it isnt a hyperbole as it was intentional and an in verse character is aware of why it has the name it has

i cant see how this cannot be accepted as infinite everything adds up and makes sense

(maybe this can help a bit but i dont expect it to and i dont think this is even necessary considering unohana should be enough
in bleach names hold meaning and power as ichibei confirms and
ichigo=one who protects (and his entire purpose is protecting)
zangetsu =moon cutter
kyoka suigetsu = Mirror Flower, Water Moon
(and ichigo manged to cut the real moon(aizen) )
yhwach=name of a god
(was the god of the quincies )
and many more

and again i dont expect this to help with what im trying to prove but this shows names actually mean something in bleach and arent totally useless further backing up muken/mugen being infinite specially when a character in the verse knows why it is named that and connected the two things)
 
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Matthew_Schroeder said:
Moon level Base Zangetsu thanks to the nme when.
Click to expand...
You missed Zoro's point. Zangetsu is moon cutter and Suigetsu is the water moon, Zangetsu (Ichigo) cut the Water Moon (Aizen). Zoro isn't saying Zangetsu = Moon level. However, he brings up a good point that names hold special meaning in Bleach, which further supports infinite size Muken when it is also called Mugen (aka infinite).
 
While I do think High 3-A Bleach is kind of ridiculous, the 5-B/5-A stuff currently in use is equally ridiculous. I can't really think of any other verse whose statements are disregarded as callously as Bleach's "Realms" i.e. Living World, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo being considered just planets.

Also, the Soul King is rated as 4-A but Yhwach who was about to reverse his only known feat is not scaled to Soul King
 
Well personally I think the only person capable of getting such a rating is the prime soul king. Seeing as he split the old universe into 2.

As for the Garganta it is the void that houses everything. But I don’t remember anywhere stating Yhwach would destroy Garganta. Wouldn’t really make sense considering he isn’t trying to destroy reality.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Well personally I think the only person capable of getting such a rating is the prime soul king. Seeing as he split the old universe into 2.

As for the Garganta it is the void that houses everything. But I don’t remember anywhere stating Yhwach would destroy Garganta. Wouldn’t really make sense considering he isn’t trying to destroy reality.
Click to expand...
what about mukens size?
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Well personally I think the only person capable of getting such a rating is the prime soul king. Seeing as he split the old universe into 2.

As for the Garganta it is the void that houses everything. But I don’t remember anywhere stating Yhwach would destroy Garganta. Wouldn’t really make sense considering he isn’t trying to destroy reality.
Click to expand...
Yoruichi or Ganju states that Yukio won't be able to hide in the Garganta because if Yhwach wins even the Garganta will be destroyed.
 
Thing is that character doesn’t really know Yhwach’s plan. Yhwachs plan was to merge the realms of life and death so they can become one again. No more death and no more suffering. Everyone would just live forever.

Edit- As for the size of Muken I do remember me and IMade went over it a couple times. I think we agreed Muken likely was some sort of infinite void but decided not to push it. He translated the raw which was different from viz.
 
Yhwach definitely scales above weakened SK.In Ch 22 of the novel,its said the SK was in this pitiful condition coz he lost both of his arms.Yhwach had the SK’s main body completely absorbed+both his arms+his heart+his heavily implied brain.
 
The fact remains that after absorbing the Soul King, Yhwach was going to reverse the only known feat of Prime Soul King - so EoS Yhwach should scale to Prime Soul King
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Thing is that character doesn’t really know Yhwach’s plan. Yhwachs plan was to merge the realms of life and death so they can become one again. No more death and no more suffering. Everyone would just live forever.
Click to expand...
https://***********.com/read-online/Bleach-chapter-627-page-2.html

Ganju's sole purpose here is to provide exposition on why Yhwach is such a deadly threat. We also have Yhwach saying that everything connected to the Soul Society, World of the Living, Dangai, etc will collapse. The Garganta is connected to Soul Society.
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Thing is that character doesn’t really know Yhwach’s plan. Yhwachs plan was to merge the realms of life and death so they can become one again. No more death and no more suffering. Everyone would just live forever.
Click to expand...
that is true but this is probably the author telling us what would happen and he did witness what happened when soul king died and he was with yoruichi who knows about the verse (probably learnt from urahara) as she explained the dangai and kyogokus to ichigo
and merging life and death cant simply mean the planets only as the two realms are seperated by another time space (dangai)
 
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