BLEACH LOW 2C REMOVAL

[LeSupremeKing1]

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

Destruction of past, present, and future in it's entirety is not really present here.

Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space.

If they aren't destroying the 4th dimensional aspect of it, aka time (which houses the past present and future), and only the matter, it wouldn't scale them there.

I do think however that destroying part of time (Lets say 3 years) should scale someone to low 2-c, but apparently its not accepted unless the entirety of the timeline is affected.

 

[YukaSama4]

You can't enter a 4D space as a 3D being you'd go crazy

Future arc Goku: Hello there!

 

[Reio35]

What was it stated that both space and time was being affected?
If the statement in question simply says “oh he can destroy a dimension” that doesn’t instantly mean across all points in time.
Mostly as far as I’ve seen, you’ve been repeating the same to thing that is being addressed which isn’t really further proving your point.

If the fabric of space is being affect then time is as well which is why space and time are one concept in relativity. Matter exist in the space-time construct or dimension. Matter warps the space-time fabric. You destroy space-time you destroy every point in it.

Matter exist as different points in space-time. Space-time itself doesn't exist in different points in time.

But yeah a dimension was destroyed and it also pulled in 2 others on panel

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Mention a verse that has 3D entering 4D physically, while still remaining as 3D

Flatland.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Can I get a scan that dangai is universal size

 

[Urshani]

Not this shit again.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Dangai is accepted as that because of the movie via the dimensions being inside of it in the movie or something.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Mention a verse that has 3D entering 4D physically, while still remaining as 3D

Yes it's called an hax and there are characters who are 3D that can affect even 1A or High 1A
Plenty of them

You can't enter a 4D space as a 3D being you'd go crazy

In DC comics there is a 4D space called boom tube in which a person can travel through, even a 3D person and many 3D guys have travelled through it, and then there's another thing in DC comics called 'The Bleed' through which only hyperversal or higher characters can travel, so it all depends on the rules of the verse.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Flatland.

I'm pretty sure this is false, as none of the 2D shapes entered a 3D world
And please bring a better example, not an example of a shape

In DC comics there is a 4D space called boom tube in which a person can travel through, even a 3D person and many 3D guys have travelled through it, and then there's another thing in DC comics called 'The Bleed' through which only hyperversal or higher characters can travel, so it all depends on the rules of the verse.

The boomtube increases their size and dimensionality so that's that.

Anyway since no can has brought anything close to even refute any point or provide any proof I will wait 24hrs before contacting more mods for input

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

If the fabric of space is being affect then time is as well which is why space and time are one concept in relativity. Matter exist in the space-time construct or dimension. Matter warps the space-time fabric.

But yeah a dimension was destroyed and it also pulled in 2 others on panel

Yeah thats not how it works. Destroying/warping space and consequently destroying/warping time doesn't get you anywhere, because all that character was powerful enough to do was destroy/warp the space, and time being affected as a sort of a chain reaction. Unless he was directly affecting time as well, not as a consequent of space being affected, it wouldn't scale him anywhere beyond 3-a.

I feel like I've repeated this several times, literally theres only one way to prove low 2-c and the feat clearly doesn't meet all the requirements to get there.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Anyways I was wondering does the Dangai not qualify as Low 2-C? It's size is currently accepted as being capable of having 2 universe size structures inside of it. The dangai itself is made out of layers and layers of time?

^

 

[PrinceofPein]

^

It won't qualify, as it's just a larger 3D space that can contain other 3D space

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ya know what? **** it. The realms are accepted on the site as at least one space-time, the Dangai is its own space-time so since Yhwach was going to smash the Dangai and fuse all of them into one, he is 2-C for fusing 2 or more universal sized space times.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Mention a verse that has 3D entering 4D physically, while still remaining as 3D

Yes it's called an hax and there are characters who are 3D that can affect even 1A or High 1A
Plenty of them

You can't enter a 4D space as a 3D being you'd go crazy

Carissa's hax can only cut through 4D space and possibly 5D and she can't affect higher dimensions because she is fodder to characters like Aiwass who are 11D, and you said hax, it simply means that you are implying that a character can have a hax that affect 4th dimension despite being 3D but a verse can't have a 4D pathway from where 3D beings can travel

 

[AnonymousBlank]

It won't qualify, as it's just a larger 3D space that can contain other 3D space

It does qualify. It is its own space-time with a different flow of time to the other realms. The other realms were pulled into it during Memories of Nobody which makes them 4d by your own logic of lower D can’t exist in a higher D plane of existence.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm really confused here tbh. Yhwach was going to destroy the entire current cosmology and remake it. The current cosmology is a man-made structure consisting of 3 universe sized structures and another structure even larger that contains it all which the SK made. How in the world is this only 3-A?

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

 

[Reio35]

Yeah thats not how it works. Destroying/warping space and consequently destroying/warping time doesn't get you anywhere, because all that character was powerful enough to do was destroy/warp the space, and time being affected as a sort of a chain reaction. Unless he was directly affecting time as well, not as a consequent of space being affected, it wouldn't scale him anywhere beyond 3-a.

I feel like I've repeated this several times, literally theres only one way to prove low 2-c and the feat clearly doesn't meet all the requirements to get there.

That's not how it works space-time are woven into one it's not a chain reaction.

Definition
"In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model which fuses the three dimensions of space and the one dimension of time into a single four-dimensional manifold. Spacetime diagrams can be used to visualize relativistic effects, such as why different observers perceive differently where and when events occur."

 

[PrinceofPein]

Carissa's hax can only cut through 4D space and possibly 5D and she can't affect higher dimensions because she is fodder to characters like Aiwass who are 11D, and you said hax, it simply means that you are implying that a character can have a hax that affect 4th dimension despite being 3D but a verse can't have a 4D pathway from where 3D beings can travel

Nice strawmanning
Like I said 3D beings can have hax that can affect even 1A space( a space that transcends infinite D conceptually) or even space and structures that are infinitely above baseline High 1A (Gilgamesh the Unwritten can affect the leviathan and he is 3D)
It does change anything
And the dangai is not a 4D space it's just another 3D space.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Pain_to12

You said that a character can't enter a 4D space without going crazy, well technically it's true but as I said there are some rules specific to a verse, again take princess Carissa for example she wielded a sword that can easily cut through the 4th dimensional space that would automatically make the sword a 4D object so how can Carissa is able to interact with it, how can she even perceive it despite being a 3D character, the answer is the sword can be wielded by a 3D being, that's what the author wrote and that's a rule of the verse.

Each fictional work is a different world with different rules, and authors use some real scientific concepts to make it more logical

Also you said about 3D character having a hax that could affect a 1A being, give me one example of someone like that, because even a hyoerversal being would see a 3D being as fictional despite the amount of hax they have and a 3D being affecting an outerversal character is out of question

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway I will stop replying and wait until someone brings something tangible actually

 

[Confluctor]

boom tube

Boom Tube is not a place, but a device that increases and decreases the dimensionality of characters using it. A 3 dimensional being cannot survive there without amps. And so on

Why is everyone using other verses instead of discussing the main verse

 

[PrinceofPein]

Also you said about 3D character having a hax that could affect a 1A being, give me one example of someone like that, because even a hyoerversal being would see a 3D being as fictional despite the amount of hax they have and a 3D being affecting an outerversal character is out of question

Try
shinza banshou
D & D
DC vertigo
War hammer
And many more

Boom Tube is not a place, but a device that increases and decreases the dimensionality of characters using it. A 3 dimensional being cannot survive there without amps. And so on

Why is everyone using other verses instead of discussing the main verse

Bless your soul and funny enough the examples brought does not even affect anything

 

[YukaSama4]

Why is everyone using other verses instead of discussing the main verse

Actually, he was the one who asked for example from other verses so yeah

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Pain_to12

1A being will see any 3D being as fictional and the hax will only affect them if the hax is originally from a higher dimensional being who is also high outer, one example is kamijo touma and his imagine breaker, most of them have given their points on why garganta is a 4D space despite that you just brushed it off saying it's not, give your reasons why

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Pain_to12

Ok, I've tried shinza bansho and DC vertigo and if you say that shinza bansho characters are 3D then I have nothing to say

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

That's not how it works space-time are woven into one it's not a chain reaction.

Definition
"In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model which fuses the three dimensions of space and the one dimension of time into a single four-dimensional manifold. Spacetime diagrams can be used to visualize relativistic effects, such as why different observers perceive differently where and when events occur."

It is a chain reaction, space affects time, literally is so blatantly obvious within physics. Time is the progression of existence, and space contains existence. Affecting space affects time, but they are obviously 2 different things, and citing a wikipedia definition of spacetime doesn't help you at all.

So if you have a character who is destroying the space of something, and then time is destroyed consequently, you only scale to the space since you aren't directly affecting the time. However affecting/destroying both the space and time directly is what scales you to low 2-c. What you are doing is blatantly not accepted on the wiki, you're basically proposing 3-a feats become low 2-c feats which is clearly not the case if we make the distinction.

Which is why this downgrade will ultimately succeed if nobody has any scans showing or implying the destruction was happening across the entire timeline.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Can people stop bringing up other stuff from different verses please. I don't care who asked, it's irrelevant. If another verse did or is doing something different than go discuss that on a different thread.

I'm really confused here tbh. Yhwach was going to destroy the entire current cosmology and remake it. The current cosmology is a man-made structure consisting of 3 universe sized structures and another structure even larger that contains it all which the SK made. How in the world is this only 3-A?

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

From what I understand, the Bleach cosmology is Tier 2.

If I'm understanding the OP correctly, their asking for evidence of the characters destroying the entire timeline (including the past and future).

Example: If I destroy the universe (space and time), the OP wants evidence of me destroying the entire timeline (past and future) not just the standard present time.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Pain_to12

Anyway, there is a LN scan Tokinada statements "Such and action would have reduced the SS' history to naught". Said otherwise: "This action would have reduced the history of the SS to zero "
Return it to its previous stated would logically mean delete all the past it has gone though, reshaping the future

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Can people stop bringing up other stuff from different verses please. I don't care who asked, it's irrelevant. If another verse did or is doing something different than go discuss that on a different thread.

From what I understand, the Bleach cosmology is Tier 2.

If I'm understanding the OP correctly, their asking for evidence of the characters destroying the entire timeline (including the past and future).

Example: If I destroy the universe (space and time), the OP wants evidence of me destroying the entire timeline (past and future) not just the standard present time.

The SK made the tier 2 cosmology though. Yhwach was going to undo his entire creation and make a new one.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Can people stop bringing up other stuff from different verses please. I don't care who asked, it's irrelevant. If another verse did or is doing something different than go discuss that on a different thread.

From what I understand, the Bleach cosmology is Tier 2.

If I'm understanding the OP correctly, their asking for evidence of the characters destroying the entire timeline (including the past and future).

Example: If I destroy the universe (space and time), the OP wants evidence of me destroying the entire timeline (past and future) not just the standard present time.

Well my argument was Garganta is 4D space. I even gave explanation for that. But one who made the thread had a different point of view . Well they didn't give any suitable example for their claims though.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The SK made the tier 2 cosmology though. Yhwach was going to undo his entire creation and make a new one.

And I agree with this.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Pain_to12

Anyway, there is a LN scan Tokinada statements "Such and action would have reduced the SS' history to naught". Said otherwise: "This action would have reduced the history of the SS to zero "
Return it to its previous stated would logically mean delete all the past it has gone though, reshaping the future

^^^ please don't ignore this.

 

[YukaSama4]

The SK made the tier 2 cosmology though. Yhwach was going to undo his entire creation and make a new one.

“Yhwach wanted to return the world to its original state and release his father through death. I do not know which was secondary to the other. However, as a result, Yhwach consumed the Reio’s body and is currently the linchpin of the world in the Reio’s place. Don’t you think that is so ironic?"

Yeah he was going to undo that tier 2 feat by Reio

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I'm pretty sure this is false, as none of the 2D shapes entered a 3D world
And please bring a better example, not an example of a shape

Are you sure about that?

 

[Reio35]

Ichibie also says soul king made the history of ss

 

[PrinceofPein]

most of them have given their points on why garganta is a 4D space despite that you just brushed it off saying it's not, give your reasons why

And most of their point is wrong and I've already explained why
It's like saying your room.is 4D cause it can contain 3D objects

@Pain_to12

Ok, I've tried shinza bansho and DC vertigo and if you say that shinza bansho characters are 3D then I have nothing to say

Shinza gods are not 3D, I am saying we have the 3D character in shinza with hax that can affect the gods and higher dimensions
Like literally all briah users and distortion users

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can people stop bringing up other stuff from different verses please. I don't care who asked, it's irrelevant. If another verse did or is doing something different than go discuss that on a different thread.

From what I understand, the Bleach cosmology is Tier 2.

If I'm understanding the OP correctly, their asking for evidence of the characters destroying the entire timeline (including the past and future).

Example: If I destroy the universe (space and time), the OP wants evidence of me destroying the entire timeline (past and future) not just the standard present time.

Not exactly, it's the wiki standard not me
It says to be low 2C you need to destroy the timeline across past and future

@Pain_to12

Anyway, there is a LN scan Tokinada statements "Such and action would have reduced the SS' history to naught". Said otherwise: "This action would have reduced the history of the SS to zero "
Return it to its previous stated would logically mean delete all the past it has gone though, reshaping the future

Does not mean he was destroying the timeline and never would

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

^^^ please don't ignore this.

Its not literal, what they mean by that is the history of the soul society would've been meaningless/forgotten. Not necessarily meaning anyone has 4d ap and was physically destroying time.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The SK created everything which makes him tier 2 I'm pretty sure and Yhwach was going to undo everything and start over from scratch.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Not exactly, it's the wiki standard not me
It says to be low 2C you need to destroy the timeline across past and future

Does not mean he was destroying the timeline and never would

He was merging the three realms which has seperate space time.

The Dangai can send people through time. It affect Rukia’s execution when the characters enter the Dangai and had more days than expected. It literally controls time.

Remember soul king created Dangai and cleaner too. It even messed with timeline. Yhwach had full power of soul king at the end.
If Soul King had the power to create
4 different space time continuum and a cleaner which messes with time. Are you saying Yhwach didn't had the power to do the same. Yhwach was returning everything back to primordial soup. Its clear he was creating a new timeline by destroying the past.