BLEACH LOW 2C REMOVAL

[KingTempest]

So now destroying a space time is deleting all of it? What happened to the past and future still exist? Yhwach is merging multiple space-times together. What more can you actually want lol

Yhwach is merging the matter of multiple space-times into 1 space-time.
The fact that you haven't comprehended what a Space-Time is is what's stopping me from agreeing with the point.

These realms are Space-TImes. That is accepted in the wiki and throughout the fanbase.
But the argument that he's affecting the Temporal Portion of them is what is being tackled.

How in the hell do you merge temporal dimensions. You can merge the spatial because the matter inside can exist in one space-time.

If he was merging the temporal dimensions, then the snapshots of the other space-times would overlap with the regular one.
You would have 3 "presents", 3 "futures", and 3 "pasts", which does not make sense.

 

[YukaSama4]

Thats illogical. If the Dangai contains both the living world and the soul society, I don't see how the the two are separate spaces, much less separate space times, if they are all contained within the same space which is the Dangai

Bruh, it could contain them.. It doesnt contain them, it could and it did once in a cannon movie

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

A brief comment, don’t know if it’s outdated, but saying “Yhwach didn’t have every piece of the Soul King therefore he can’t have his full power” is nonsense.

Yhwach was far superior to the WSK prior to absorbing it. So it’s not just the Soul King parts that make up Yhwach’s power. You have the husk (most of the power) + both arms + the heart + the power from potentially the brain + Yhwach’s power which already far exceeds the husk. Not to mention Yhwach had been absorbing power from the likes of everyone who died. To limit Yhwach below the Soul King is disingenuous, because in doing so you ignore the power Yhwach brings to the table.

So this “he didn’t have every piece thus he isn’t as strong as prime Soul King” is just flat out wrong. Because that blatantly ignores the fact that Yhwach by himself far exceeded the power of the largest corpse part (the husk).

Edit: I forgot to mention he absorbed Ichigo’s hollow and Quincy powers, you know the same Ichigo who surpassed the WSK on his own in base.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Thats illogical. If the Dangai contains both the living world and the soul society, I don't see how the the two are separate spaces, much less separate space times, if they are all contained within the same space which is the Dangai.

Unless im misinterpreting what you are saying ofc.

I see the misunderstanding. In the movie Memories of Nobody, a Valley of Screams formed in the Dangai and made contact with both SS and WotL, dragging both of them into it. That’s where it being universal in size comes from.

Merging 2 3-a universes contained within one space time=low 2c? What? Unless time is implied to be destroyed, that doesn't go anywhere beyond 3-a.

Okay so Yhwach wants to undo everything the SK made this includes the Dangai which is a space-time. So all of the other realms like SS and HM are all in the space space-time but just spatially separated. Yhwach is going to destroy the boundaries between all of them and also the Dangai so that he can then merge it all together to recreate the OG universe. So he is merging the Dangai (1 space-time) and everything else (which is another space-time) which would be 2-C.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yhwach is merging the matter of multiple space-times into 1 space-time.
The fact that you haven't comprehended what a Space-Time is is what's stopping me from agreeing with the point.

These realms are Space-TImes. That is accepted in the wiki and throughout the fanbase.
But the argument that he's affecting the Temporal Portion of them is what is being tackled.

How in the hell do you merge temporal dimensions. You can merge the spatial because the matter inside can exist in one space-time.

If he was merging the temporal dimensions, then the snapshots of the other space-times would overlap with the regular one.
You would have 3 "presents", 3 "futures", and 3 "pasts", which does not make sense.

…… that was the sarcasm part. You weren’t supposed to take it seriously.

 

[KingTempest]

A brief comment, don’t know if it’s outdated, but saying “Yhwach didn’t have every piece of the Soul King therefore he can’t have his full power” is nonsense.

Yhwach was far superior to the WSK prior to absorbing it. So it’s not just the Soul King parts that make up Yhwach’s power. You have the husk (most of the power) + both arms + the heart + the power from potentially the brain + Yhwach’s power which already far exceeds the husk. Not to mention Yhwach had been absorbing power from the likes of everyone who died. To limit Yhwach below the Soul King is disingenuous, because in doing so you ignore the power Yhwach brings to the table.

So this “he didn’t have every piece thus he isn’t as strong as prime Soul King” is just flat out wrong. Because that blatantly ignores the fact that Yhwach by himself far exceeded the power of the largest corpse part (the husk).

Edit: I forgot to mention he absorbed Ichigo’s hollow and Quincy powers, you know the same Ichigo who surpassed the WSK on his own in base.

Like I said

If he has a solid Low 2-C to 2-C rating via scaling to/above Reio (when he had the power to create the realms), then he should use that as the main justification, not a bunch of vague destruction feats

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Thats illogical. If the Dangai contains both the living world and the soul society, I don't see how the the two are separate spaces, much less separate space times, if they are all contained within the same space which is the Dangai.

Unless im misinterpreting what you are saying ofc.

no no no, what he is saying is

dangai its it own separated thing with its own space-time, one time the 2 main separated universe where pulled and forced inside the dangai


like this

Universe 1 ---------------- Universe 2

all of the 3 are separated

but what he means is an even where both universes where pulled inside the dangai (the line)

 

[Teezar]

I got sick of reading the ad nauseam a few comments into page 4. So Imma just run people through this nice and easy.

1. The Dangai is able to contain both the WotL and SS inside it. The Dangai is thus universal in size.
2. The Dangai has a different flow of time to the rest of the realms and exists outside of the realms by virtue of being used to connect the SS and WotL, each being parallel dimensions.
3. This means that the Dangai is its own separate, space-time and the SK made it so he scales to Low 2-C.

Any disagreements with the above? No? Onto why Yhwach is tier 2.

1. This whole snapshot argument means **** all to Yhwach getting the tiering. Same with him being stated to be comparable to the SK actually.
2. As I explained above, the Dangai is a space-time. This means that everything else is also one big space-time. Yhwach was going to destroy both and then merge them into one, thereby recreating the original universe.
3. For those who didn’t pick up on it, that’s a 2-C feat.

Case closed.

I agree with this.

 

[KazuiK]

I thought the interpretation of Yhwach's Level 2 feat had changed. Instead of merging the worlds it would destroy

 

[KingTempest]

The Dangai is stupid.

Isshin: The Dangai is separated from Space and Time
Also Isshin: The Dangai is a space with time.

This is confusing as hell

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Isshin: The Dangai is separated from Space and Time

The Dangai is cut off from space and time from SS and WotL

the Dangai's space and time aren't separate, they're separate from the rest of the universe.

I blame mrks in this CRT for making anything complicated

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

The Dangai is stupid.

Isshin: The Dangai is separated from Space and Time
Also Isshin: The Dangai is a space with time.

This is confusing as hell

basically is separated from the realms (SS and WOTL) and their time

but the dangai has its own space-time

 

[YukaSama4]

If it doesnt have a space or time how tf would that work when the manga says Dangai sides are made from layers of time or sth like that

 

[KingTempest]

Ok so the cosmology is giving me a headache and I'll go read to thread 8 times over. Don't make me hold you guys up.

 

[Frey6678]

Dangai separated from spacetime, so, destroying the whole structure of bleachverse would be tier 2, there has more scans regarding it from the novels iirc, but I don't have it here

if this were true then it would be a 4th dimension, problem with this is, how is a 3D being aka yhwach going to exist if space-time is destroyed and it turned into the 0th dimension(no height, width, length or time)
3D beings cannot exist in the 0th dimension it makes no sense
according to string theory.
the 0th dimension has no coordinates
the 1st dimension is a line segment
the 2nd dimension has length and width
the 3rd dimension has length, width and height
the 4th has length, width, height and time.
How would a 3D being exist if space-time was destroyed?

 

[Bernkastelll]

if this were true then it would be a 4th dimension, problem with this is, how is a 3D being aka yhwach going to exist if space-time is destroyed and it turned into the 0th dimension(no height, width, length or time)
3D beings cannot exist in the 0th dimension it makes no sense
according to string theory.
the 0th dimension has no coordinates
the 1st dimension is a line segment
the 2nd dimension has length and width
the 3rd dimension has length, width and height
the 4th has length, width, height and time.
How would a 3D being exist if space-time was destroyed?

4-D durability, welcome to the jungle

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

if this were true then it would be a 4th dimension, problem with this is, how is a 3D being aka yhwach going to exist if space-time is destroyed and it turned into the 0th dimension(no height, width, length or time)
3D beings cannot exist in the 0th dimension it makes no sense
according to string theory.
the 0th dimension has no coordinates
the 1st dimension is a line segment
the 2nd dimension has length and width
the 3rd dimension has length, width and height
the 4th has length, width, height and time.
How would a 3D being exist if space-time was destroyed?

there are 3D characters with 4D dura and AP, so nothing new

 

[Tarang123]

Is he able to destroy it temporally, or are they referring to the matter within it?

If SK created the entire cosmology (including realms that have space and time), and Yhwach is able to undo it, then it would be a literal joke if he wasn't affecting the time as well. Of course, the scans for him undoing anything would be pretty nice along with the raws. Depending on those, my vote my change. Rn, all I'm seeing is people spamming that the standards are too strict, even though the basis of it has been covered already.

We know that SK created the entire cosmology including several universal-sized space-time continuums. Yhwach is apparently able to destroy all of it, yes that counts for tier 2.

 

[Tarang123]

Still 3D, like how do you keep missing this it's not hard tbh

seems like a fundamental misunderstanding on what we treat as 3D and 4D. Currently, affecting an entire universal-sized space-time continuum is considered 4D and thus tier 2. Unless you have hard evidence that Yhwach didn't destroy the past, present, and future of the cosmology, then tier 2 shouldn't be going anywhere.

Still, Bleach is fodder and should be downgrade to tier 10

 

[Tarang123]

there are 3D characters with 4D dura and AP, so nothing new

really? That never really made any sense to me. If you have higher AP than your existence, wouldn't you basically get erased by attacking the opponent. Your body cannot physically handle that kind of power. I've heard of 3D characters having higher-d hax. That much is fine. But a 3D character that has 4D physical AP and DC doesn't make too much sense.

 

[Tarang123]

I think we're having some confusion here.

Perhaps, supporters of the verse who have a good understanding of the cosmology can show scans and arguments for what we know of the cosmology. Maybe that's best. Either that, or send a cosmology blog for bleach. Both of those work. It would make this shitshow of a thread progress faster

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

cosmology blog for bleach

That is in the works yes

 

[Tarang123]

That is in the works yes

Oh, alr then. If that's the case, then this CRT should be held off for some time until that blog is completed

 

[Frey6678]

4-D durability, welcome to the jungle

That really makes no sense
Firstly I need proof of 4D durability
secondly that makes no sense, how can a 3D being even exist in the 0th dimension?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Firstly I need proof of 4D durability

Surviving a 4-D destruction

secondly that makes no sense, how can a 3D being even exist in the 0th dimension?

Idk?

 

[Frey6678]

Surviving a 4-D destruction

Idk?

So there's no actual proof that space-time itself was going to be destroyed and that 3D beings like yhwach can survive it? K
Destroying a dimension that has space-time=/=destroying the space-time of it itself. Honestly bleach cosmology is weird, since all bleach worlds seem to exist in the same timeline.

 

[Bernkastelll]

So there's no actual proof that space-time itself was going to be destroyed and that 3D beings like yhwach can survive it? K

What? the realms are separated by space-time, and all of these structures were created by SK

 

[Frey6678]

What? the realms are separated by space-time, and all of these structures were created by SK

They were split by Soul king as far as I know but the universe itself still existed. Its why I said bleach cosmology is confusing, for instance if they are separated by space-time then why do they exist in the same present timeline?(talking about WoL, SS and HM)
Its only stated dangai is isolated spatially and temporally(aka space-time) from WoL and SS.

 

[Bernkastelll]

They were split by Soul king as far as I know but the universe itself still existed. Its why I said bleach cosmology is confusing, for instance if they are separated by space-time then why do they exist in the same present timeline?(talking about WoL, SS and HM)

A timeline doesnt need to be just a Low 2-C structure, in fact, u can have a timeline as sometime bigger, WoL and SS are separated by Space-Time, going by your argument of both being in the same timeline, it would just make a Timeline encompassing a Space-Time

 

[Frey6678]

A timeline doesnt need to be just a Low 2-C structure, in fact, u can have a timeline as sometime bigger, WoL and SS are separated by Space-Time, going by your argument of both being in the same timeline, it would just make a Timeline encompassing a Space-Time

but its never stated they are separate space-time though, that makes no sense, the only thing that was stated is that dangai was isolated from space-time hence why time was completely different there.
WoL, SS and HM however seem to exist in the same time.

 

[Frey6678]

A timeline doesnt need to be just a Low 2-C structure, in fact, u can have a timeline as sometime bigger, WoL and SS are separated by Space-Time, going by your argument of both being in the same timeline, it would just make a Timeline encompassing a Space-Time

could I see where it was actually stated that they are separate?(my bleach knowledge isn't that great)

 

[Bernkastelll]

could I see where it was actually stated that they are separate?(my bleach knowledge isn't that great)

if this were true then it would be a 4th dimension, problem with this is, how is a 3D being aka yhwach going to exist if space-time is destroyed and it turned into the 0th dimension(no height, width, length or time)
3D beings cannot exist in the 0th dimension it makes no sense
according to string theory.
the 0th dimension has no coordinates
the 1st dimension is a line segment
the 2nd dimension has length and width
the 3rd dimension has length, width and height
the 4th has length, width, height and time.
How would a 3D being exist if space-time was destroyed?

 

[Frey6678]

The Dangai is cut off from space and time from SS and WotL

the Dangai's space and time aren't separate, they're separate from the rest of the universe.

I blame mrks in this CRT for making anything complicated

So is this basically what I've been trying to say then? How the dangai seems to be the thing actually isolated from space-time, but not WoL, SS and HM.

 

[Frey6678]

that's not what I wanted, that's only proving what I said before, that only the dangai was stated to be separated from the space-time of Wol AND SS, which implies they both exist in the same space-time, while the dangai is separated. I still haven't seen where it states they are separate space-time(talking about WoL, SS and HM)

 

[Frey6678]

but its never stated they are separate space-time though, that makes no sense, the only thing that was stated is that dangai was isolated from space-time hence why time was completely different there.
WoL, SS and HM however seem to exist in the same time.

^

 

[Bernkastelll]

that's not what I wanted, that's only proving what I said before, that only the dangai was stated to be separated from the space-time of Wol AND SS, which implies they both exist in the same space-time, while the dangai is separated. I still haven't seen where it states they are separate space-time(talking about WoL, SS and HM)

^

Oh, I did not said that WoL and SS were separated space-time from each other, at least i dont remember making that argument, thats not up to me

 

[Frey6678]

Oh, I did not said that WoL and SS were separated space-time from each other, at least i dont remember making that argument, thats not up to me

I think I misinterpreted what you said then, you stated they were separated by space-time but I think you were referring to the dangai now.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

really? That never really made any sense to me. If you have higher AP than your existence, wouldn't you basically get erased by attacking the opponent. Your body cannot physically handle that kind of power. I've heard of 3D characters having higher-d hax. That much is fine. But a 3D character that has 4D physical AP and DC doesn't make too much sense.

is fiction so i never pay it any mind, otherwise no one should be capable of going FTL either since at that point that would be considered immeasurable

either way there many who are themselves a 3D being but have either High D hax or stats

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

That really makes no sense
Firstly I need proof of 4D durability
secondly that makes no sense, how can a 3D being even exist in the 0th dimension?

this ur first time on the wiki?

cus in case u did not know a lot of characters can be 3D and have 4D hax, dura, AP etc. or even 5D, 6D etc.

some of the go to example is DBS, who themselves are 3D but have 4D dura and AP

 

[Tarang123]

is fiction so i never pay it any mind, otherwise no one should be capable of going FTL either since at that point that would be considered immeasurable

either way there many who are themselves a 3D being but have either High D hax or stats

I mean, yeah, but logically it doesn't really hold for a character to have physical abilities that scale higher than their own physical existence. That doesn't really work. I'd also like an example for a character that qualifies for this. As for the higher-d hax, I agree with that, Soujirou is a pretty good example for one.