BLEACH LOW 2C REMOVAL

[EldemadeDityjon]

Was it stated he had the full power of the prime soul king?

Yes

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Was it stated he had the full power of the prime soul king?

Its even stated by Ichibē

 

[Loyd]

lol hold up, can i get a scan for Yhwach>Prime SK ?

 

[KingTempest]

Yes

i do not personally think he was 100% at prime SK LV, but just enough to destroy everything the SK made

Its even stated by Ichibē

Then I need a scan for him being superior to Reio when he had the power to create the realms.

This needs to be reflected upon the profile if it's actually stated.

Everything else is just a bunch of 3-A feats. All the destruction, all the fusing of realms, all of that.
It's as vague as saying "destroy the universe" and taking it as either 3-A or Low 2-C.

If he has a solid Low 2-C to 2-C rating via scaling to/above Reio (when he had the power to create the realms), then he should use that as the main justification, not a bunch of vague destruction feats

 

[PrinceofPein]

Let me wait on Ultima and DT to clarify the low 2c standards before continuing and yes if what I said about the standard is correct then SK would also lose his low 2C rating as we will treat it like Bigbang

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

lol hold up, can i get a scan for Yhwach>Prime SK ?

i personally dont think YH was at the level of when soul king was at 100%

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So creating these realms is Low 2-C, but destroying the same exact realms isn't? Huh. Honest question, btw.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

lol hold up, can i get a scan for Yhwach>Prime SK ?

Ichibē stated Yhwach fully gained power of the soul king. Its nowhere stated he was above SK or below SK. Pretty much you can say equal interms of power.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Then I need a scan for him being superior to Reio when he had the power to create the realms.

This needs to be reflected upon the profile if it's actually stated.

Everything else is just a bunch of 3-A feats. All the destruction, all the fusing of realms, all of that.
It's as vague as saying "destroy the universe" and taking it as either 3-A or Low 2-C.

If he has a solid Low 2-C to 2-C rating via scaling to/above Reio (when he had the power to create the realms), then he should use that as the main justification, not a bunch of vague destruction feats

ichibe does state he had the power of the soul king

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

“But luckily for the boy, Yhwach had all of the Reio’s power. That guaranteed that the Soul Society would escape destruction whether or not Ichigo Kurosaki won.” The high priest faced the thing at the center of the Greater Palace and clapped his hands together while he spoke.”

Excerpt From
Bleach: Can't Fear Your Own World, Vol. 1
Tite Kubo, Ryohgo Narita
This material may be protected by copyright.

Ichibei is the only living person to have seen Reio’s power. Yhwach doesn't scale above him. He's equal at best.

Yhwach himself is even potentially just another part of him. Specifically his power funny enough.

“If Yhwach is the ancestor of the group called Quincy, then the Reio itself is the source of the Quincies’ powers. Whether the Reio left a child behind before he was sealed away or the power shredded away from the Reio took human shape and manifested itself, I do not know.”

Excerpt From
Bleach: Can’t Fear Your Own World, Vol. 3
Tite Kubo, Ryohgo Narita
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Luziifero]

Ichibē stated Yhwach fully gained power of the soul king. Its nowhere stated he was above SK or below SK. Pretty much you can say equal interms of power.

Ichibē stated Yhwach fully gained power of the soul king. Its nowhere stated he was above SK or below SK. Pretty much you can say equal interms of power.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That is vegetable/battery version. Reio in his prime was considered closest to “omnipotent” within the context of the verse.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

That is vegetable/battery version. Reio in his prime was considered closest to “omnipotent” within the context of the verse.

actually that was mimihagi

 

[KingTempest]

ichibe does state he had the power of the soul king

I'd usually accept this, but in the time where Reio was severely weaker than his younger self to the point where the wiki gives him 2 separate keys, I'm not sure we can scale him above his 3-A to Low 2-C/2-C self.


Not including that Reio's arms were still separated in the forms of GarboValkyrie and Pernida, showing that even Reio didn't have all his power. It most likely meant the portions he absorbed, which were Reio and Mimihagi.

So creating these realms is Low 2-C, but destroying the same exact realms isn't? Huh. Honest question, btw.

Creating a mountain could be 7-A, but destroying a mountain could be 7-B.

Creating the realms involves creating the past, present, and future time where the realms exist in. If you fail to create the time, then all objects would be stuck in place in a single snapshot of the realms' history. If you miss a second, then things are frozen in a single snapshot. Creating the temporal dimension is what makes it infinitely above tier 3 and below.

Destroying the realms can mean several things.

1. Destroying all the matter inside of the realms.
2. Erasing a realm from existence in general.
3. Destroying the matter inside a realm + the infinite snapshots across history of the realms.

Nothing shows that Yhwach was going to destroy every point in time where these realms existed.

If you've heard off and onsite about how people say tier 2 is infinitely above tier 3, it's because they destroy an infinite amounts of these "snapshots", or moments in time where the realms exist.

We have no clue if Yhwach's actually doing that. The minimum we know he's doing is destroying the matter in the realms, but we don't know if he's destroying every point in history for these realms.

 

[Luziifero]

actually that was mimihagi

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-reios-stabilization-and-sennas-explosion.121339/

"Consistency check for Yhwach: he one shots Ichibe after opening his eyes, stabs Reio, burns True Shikai Ichigo and blocks his attack (albeit Yhwach implies Ichigo isn’t going all out as he isn’t resolved to kill), and Yhwach states he is far superior to Reio before absorbing the Weakened Reio and Mimihagi. After becoming the Soul King,"

straight off arcs crt

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ichibei is the only living person to have seen Reio’s power. Yhwach doesn't scale above him. He's equal at best.

^^^ Ichibē statement stands.

Ichibē was given the title "Monk Who Calls the Real Name" by the Soul King. Ichibē was the person who first chose the names for everything in Soul Society, including Zanpakutō, Shikai and Bankai. At some point in the past, Ichibē became the first Shinigami whose Zanpakutō gained an evolved form, which was known as Shinuchi.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@KingTempest

Fair enough.

 

[Loyd]

I'd usually accept this, but in the time where Reio was severely weaker than his younger self to the point where the wiki gives him 2 separate keys, I'm not sure we can scale him above his 3-A to Low 2-C/2-C self.


Not including that Reio's arms were still separated in the forms of GarboValkyrie and Pernida, showing that even Reio didn't have all his power. It most likely meant the portions he absorbed, which were Reio and Mimihagi.

Creating a mountain could be 7-A, but destroying a mountain could be 7-B.

Creating the realms involves creating the past, present, and future time where the realms exist in. If you fail to create the time, then all objects would be stuck in place in a single snapshot of the realms' history. If you miss a second, then things are frozen in a single snapshot. Creating the temporal dimension is what makes it infinitely above tier 3 and below.

Destroying the realms can mean several things.

1. Destroying all the matter inside of the realms.
2. Erasing a realm from existence in general.
3. Destroying the matter inside a realm + the infinite snapshots across history of the realms.

Nothing shows that Yhwach was going to destroy every point in time where these realms existed.

If you've heard off and onsite about how people say tier 2 is infinitely above tier 3, it's because they destroy an infinite amounts of these "snapshots", or moments in time where the realms exist.

We have no clue if Yhwach's actually doing that. The minimum we know he's doing is destroying the matter in the realms, but we don't know if he's destroying every point in history for these realms.

thats why the soul king outright has 3-A to Low 2-C. via creation

and isn't that the reason why the god tiers only get possibly low 2-C?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-reios-stabilization-and-sennas-explosion.121339/

"Consistency check for Yhwach: he one shots Ichibe after opening his eyes, stabs Reio, burns True Shikai Ichigo and blocks his attack (albeit Yhwach implies Ichigo isn’t going all out as he isn’t resolved to kill), and Yhwach states he is far superior to Reio before absorbing the Weakened Reio and Mimihagi. After becoming the Soul King,"

straight off arcs crt

i was talking of the posted page, the one he was absorbing on that page was mimihagi

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I'd usually accept this, but in the time where Reio was severely weaker than his younger self to the point where the wiki gives him 2 separate keys, I'm not sure we can scale him above his 3-A to Low 2-C/2-C self.


Not including that Reio's arms were still separated in the forms of GarboValkyrie and Pernida, showing that even Reio didn't have all his power. It most likely meant the portions he absorbed, which were Reio and Mimihagi.

Creating a mountain could be 7-A, but destroying a mountain could be 7-B.

Creating the realms involves creating the past, present, and future time where the realms exist in. If you fail to create the time, then all objects would be stuck in place in a single snapshot of the realms' history. If you miss a second, then things are frozen in a single snapshot. Creating the temporal dimension is what makes it infinitely above tier 3 and below.

Destroying the realms can mean several things.

1. Destroying all the matter inside of the realms.
2. Erasing a realm from existence in general.
3. Destroying the matter inside a realm + the infinite snapshots across history of the realms.

Nothing shows that Yhwach was going to destroy every point in time where these realms existed.

If you've heard off and onsite about how people say tier 2 is infinitely above tier 3, it's because they destroy an infinite amounts of these "snapshots", or moments in time where the realms exist.

We have no clue if Yhwach's actually doing that. The minimum we know he's doing is destroying the matter in the realms, but we don't know if he's destroying every point in history for these realms.

I get your point but it's clear that Ichibē one who known PSK true power states Yhwach had Full power of soul king. So is it really matter if Yhwach destroying the realms. Because if Yhwach scales to PSK in power then possibly 2C is reasonable I think . The Ichibē statement is trustworthy.

 

[Luziifero]

i was talking of the posted page, the one he was absorbing on that page was mimihagi

yeah and I'm saying he was referring to reio because as far as I know mimihagi does not have the almighty just reio

 

[KingTempest]

thats why the soul king outright has 3-A to Low 2-C. via creation

Which I agree with.

and isn't that the reason why the god tiers only get possibly low 2-C?

Reio's solid.

Yhwach?

Stated numerous times capable of destroying multiple realms and creating a new one, and without his power the world cannot stand.

Unfortunately for this verse I understand context.

Yhwach wasn't poofing a temporal dimension into existence. He's just merging a bunch of space-times that already exist.
From what I see he's just merging the spatial dimensions of each realm.

I get your point but it's clear that Ichibē one who known PSK true power states Yhwach had Full power of soul king. So is it really matter if Yhwach destroying the realms. Because if Yhwach scales to PSK in power then possibly 2C is reasonable I think . The Ichibē statement is trustworthy.

Full power of the soul king ≠ Full power of the soul king at his best.

The full power of a 90 year old man isn't the same as them in their prime. If an old man says "I'm using all my power and can't open this door", they're referring to their full power at that state in time.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'd usually accept this, but in the time where Reio was severely weaker than his younger self to the point where the wiki gives him 2 separate keys, I'm not sure we can scale him above his 3-A to Low 2-C/2-C self.


Not including that Reio's arms were still separated in the forms of GarboValkyrie and Pernida, showing that even Reio didn't have all his power. It most likely meant the portions he absorbed, which were Reio and Mimihagi.

Creating a mountain could be 7-A, but destroying a mountain could be 7-B.

Creating the realms involves creating the past, present, and future time where the realms exist in. If you fail to create the time, then all objects would be stuck in place in a single snapshot of the realms' history. If you miss a second, then things are frozen in a single snapshot. Creating the temporal dimension is what makes it infinitely above tier 3 and below.

Destroying the realms can mean several things.

1. Destroying all the matter inside of the realms.
2. Erasing a realm from existence in general.
3. Destroying the matter inside a realm + the infinite snapshots across history of the realms.

Nothing shows that Yhwach was going to destroy every point in time where these realms existed.

If you've heard off and onsite about how people say tier 2 is infinitely above tier 3, it's because they destroy an infinite amounts of these "snapshots", or moments in time where the realms exist.

We have no clue if Yhwach's actually doing that. The minimum we know he's doing is destroying the matter in the realms, but we don't know if he's destroying every point in history for these realms.

Waiting on DT and Ultima reply, I should have listened and just asked for permission for this to be staff and knowledgeable members only thread tbh, so many derailment and points from people who do not understand the tiering system

 

[KingTempest]

Waiting on DT and Ultima reply, I should have listened and just asked for permission for this to be staff and knowledgeable members only thread tbh, so many derailment and points from people who do not understand the tiering system

I don't blame them in all honesty.

I didn't know about the science, logic, rules, and definition behind a space-time until that one thread was made.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Current Reio is powerless. He is just a battery. Ichibei’s statement says Yhwach has all of Reio’s power. As far as we know Yhwach has most of the parts of the SK with the most relevant ones being the arms.

There is enough evidence within the series for Yhwach to possibly scale to him at his prime since he had enough to undo Reio’s feat entirely.

 

[KingTempest]

Current Reio is powerless. He is just a battery. Ichibei’s statement says Yhwach has all of Reio’s power. As far as we know Yhwach has most of the parts of the SK with the most relevant ones being the arms.

Current Reio is the reason why the Bleach universe hasn't collapsed on itself yet and he has a 3-B rating because of it via good solid evidence.

All of Reio's power while absorbing only his body when his right and left arms + his heart were still flying around makes little to no sense.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Which I agree with.

Reio's solid.

Yhwach?

Unfortunately for this verse I understand context.

Yhwach wasn't poofing a temporal dimension into existence. He's just merging a bunch of space-times that already exist.
From what I see he's just merging the spatial dimensions of each realm.


Full power of the soul king ≠ Full power of the soul king at his best.

The full power of a 90 year old man isn't the same as them in their prime. If an old man says "I'm using all my power and can't open this door", they're referring to their full power at that state in time.

Yhwach not just had Reio power he also had power of Stern's. Its clear that Gerald and Parnida had more power than when they were soul king body parts. They had grown even powerful after seperated from soul king and Yhwach uses his Stern's to grow his powers when they die or he can just absorb them. Also I was not talking about Yhwach absorbing weakened Soul King or mimihagi. Overall Ichibē known the power of Soul King and what his power can do. If he compares Yhwach to Soul King then can't we say he atleast or possibly obtained PSK power. Its not like he gained that much power just be absorbing Weak Soil King.

Sorry for my grammar .

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Current Reio is the reason why the Bleach universe hasn't collapsed on itself yet and he has a 3-B rating because of it via good solid evidence.

All of Reio's power while absorbing only his body when his right and left arms + his heart were still flying around makes little to no sense.

He had many other sources to get the power why are we forgetting sternritters.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Current Reio is the reason why the Bleach universe hasn't collapsed on itself yet and he has a 3-B rating because of it via good solid evidence.

All of Reio's power while absorbing only his body when his right and left arms + his heart were still flying around makes little to no sense.

The statement Ichibei made is after he was defeated and cut up into pieces himself. But still like I said there is enough evidence to warrant a possibly.

“If Yhwach is the ancestor of the group called Quincy, then the Reio itself is the source of the Quincies’ powers. Whether the Reio left a child behind before he was sealed away or the power shredded away from the Reio took human shape and manifested itself, I do not know.”

Excerpt From
Bleach: Can’t Fear Your Own World, Vol. 3
Tite Kubo, Ryohgo Narita
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Current Reio is the reason why the Bleach universe hasn't collapsed on itself yet and he has a 3-B rating because of it via good solid evidence.

All of Reio's power while absorbing only his body when his right and left arms + his heart were still flying around makes little to no sense.

Even Ichigo full power was absorbed by Yhwach.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I got sick of reading the ad nauseam a few comments into page 4. So Imma just run people through this nice and easy.

1. The Dangai is able to contain both the WotL and SS inside it. The Dangai is thus universal in size.
2. The Dangai has a different flow of time to the rest of the realms and exists outside of the realms by virtue of being used to connect the SS and WotL, each being parallel dimensions.
3. This means that the Dangai is its own separate, space-time and the SK made it so he scales to Low 2-C.

Any disagreements with the above? No? Onto why Yhwach is tier 2.

1. This whole snapshot argument means **** all to Yhwach getting the tiering. Same with him being stated to be comparable to the SK actually.
2. As I explained above, the Dangai is a space-time. This means that everything else is also one big space-time. Yhwach was going to destroy both and then merge them into one, thereby recreating the original universe.
3. For those who didn’t pick up on it, that’s a 2-C feat.

Case closed.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

1. SK body parts
2. Sternritters
3. Ichigo powers.

Pretty sure it's reasonable to believe Yhwach had SK full power

 

[KingTempest]

Yhwach not just had Reio power he also had power of Stern's. Its clear that Gerald and Parnida has more power than when they were soul king body parts. They has grown even powerful after Seperated from soul king and Yhwach uses his Stern's to grow his powers. Also I was not talking about Yhwach absorbing weakened Soul King or mimihagi. Overall Ichibē known the power of Soul King and what his power can do. If he compares Yhwach to Soul King then can't we say he atleast or possibly obtained PSK power. Its not like he gained that much power just be absorbing Weak Soil King.

I understand this, but assuming that he meant his power from himself at his best is a stretch.

Yhwach as of chapter 625 absorbed all of the Soul King's power... plus a fraction of his prime power in the form of Mimihagi.

How can Yhwach absorb all of Reio's power from his prime by absorbing Reio when Reio didn't even have the power from his prime.

Sorry for my grammar .

It's fine, I commend you for speaking as good as you are now.

He had many other sources to get the power why are we forgetting sternritters.

The sternritter are Yhwach's power, not Reio's power.

The statement Ichibei made is after he was defeated and cut up into pieces himself. But still like I said there is enough evidence to warrant a possibly.

Maybe a "possibly 3-A to Low 2-C" via potentially scaling to Prime/Peak Reio could be added.

Do I agree with it? No, but i won't let my personal opinion stop a rating that may be right

 

[KingTempest]

Any disagreements with the above? No? Onto why Yhwach is tier 2.

1. This whole snapshot argument means **** all to Yhwach getting the tiering. Same with him being stated to be comparable to the SK actually.
2. As I explained above, the Dangai is a space-time. This means that everything else is also one big space-time. Yhwach was going to destroy both and then merge them into one, thereby recreating the original universe.
3. For those who didn’t pick up on it, that’s a 2-C feat.

Case closed.

Question.

How's he gonna destroy them and then merge them if he destroyed the space-time, which means that in every part of history it exists in, it's gone.

If he destroyed the space-time of the realms, there'd be nothing to merge

 

[StrawHatArslan]

AnonymousBlank kinda makes sense ngl.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@KingTempest I think Yhwach scaling to Prime Reio is wank tbh. But I can see it after considering everything presented.

The creation feat isn't presented as his full power imo considering he still had enough juice to well maintain it all indefinitely.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest I think Yhwach scaling to Prime Reio is wank tbh. But I can see it after considering everything presented.

The creation feat isn't presented as his full power imo considering he still had enough juice to well maintain it all indefinitely.

Yeah this I can agree with.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Question.

How's he gonna destroy them and then merge them if he destroyed the space-time, which means that in every part of history it exists in, it's gone.

So now destroying a space time is deleting all of it? What happened to the past and future still exist? Yhwach is merging multiple space-times together. What more can you actually want lol

If he destroyed the space-time of the realms, there'd be nothing to merge

Sarcasm aside, Yhwach was going to destroy the boundaries between the realms, so that he could then merge them all. The space-times still exists so he can still fuse them.

And just in case someone tries to say something like “if the boundaries are gone, then they’ll fuse anyway so it doesn’t scale to Yhwach.” We see people rip open portals to and from the Dangai to enter it. They are spatially connected at this point but the Dangai is still a separate space-time from the rest and doesn’t just fuse with whatever realm it’s connected to.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I understand this, but assuming that he meant his power from himself at his best is a stretch.

Yhwach as of chapter 625 absorbed all of the Soul King's power... plus a fraction of his prime power in the form of Mimihagi.

How can Yhwach absorb all of Reio's power from his prime by absorbing Reio when Reio didn't even have the power from his prime.

I didn't said he absorbed Reios full power. According to Ichibē he had full power of Soul King. Ichibē statement is valid because he si trustworthy source. Atleast you can say
PSK >~ Yhwach

The sternritter are Yhwach's power, not Reio's power.

Maybe a "possibly 3-A to Low 2-C" via potentially scaling to Prime/Peak Reio could be added.

Sternritters were not Yhwach power. I mean yes the schrift was given by Yhwach but power cultivated by each sternritter is their own power just to get absorbed by Yhwach.

Also Ichigo HOS Bankai power which got absorbed by Yhwach. Pretty much he had gotten almost PSK power or greater power no one Knows

WSK+ his body parts + Sternritters+ HOS Bankai

= Yhwach ~< PSK

Its not like anyone knows power of PSK. Only person who has known about SK is Ichibē. So we can only rely on his statement nothing else can be done.

So I am just saying possibly 2C is reasonable.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

I got sick of reading the ad nauseam a few comments into page 4. So Imma just run people through this nice and easy.

1. The Dangai is able to contain both the WotL and SS inside it. The Dangai is thus universal in size.
2. The Dangai has a different flow of time to the rest of the realms and exists outside of the realms by virtue of being used to connect the SS and WotL, each being parallel dimensions.
3. This means that the Dangai is its own separate, space-time and the SK made it so he scales to Low 2-C.

Thats illogical. If the Dangai contains both the living world and the soul society, I don't see how the the two are separate spaces, much less separate space times, if they are all contained within the same space which is the Dangai.

Unless im misinterpreting what you are saying ofc.

1. This whole snapshot argument means **** all to Yhwach getting the tiering. Same with him being stated to be comparable to the SK actually.
2. As I explained above, the Dangai is a space-time. This means that everything else is also one big space-time. Yhwach was going to destroy both and then merge them into one, thereby recreating the original universe.
3. For those who didn’t pick up on it, that’s a 2-C feat.

Merging 2 3-a universes contained within one space time=low 2c? What? Unless time is implied to be destroyed, that doesn't go anywhere beyond 3-a.