Bleach God Tiers for real this time

[Arc7Kuroi]

Incidentally, which book is it from? Has Viz reached that point?

Volume 3, I purchased it myself so I could start translating bits and pieces being that I've taken and am taking Japanese in college atm. VIZ releases it in March.

First a common misconception I'm seeing: "the Garganta is expanding" <- this is never stated so I don't know why it's being brought up.

Aura monologues on page 396 of CFYOW III in the Japanese version: "無限に広がる黒腔の中を彷徨い続け"

無限に is a common phrase regarding 無限 (the kanji for infinite/infinity), in which it means to infinite or to infinity.

広がる is the verb to extend/to spread/to fill out. To extend obviously being a verb used to describe the size of something.

黒腔の中 means inside the Garganta, 黒腔 = Garganta, 中 = inside where の connects inside to Garganta.

を is a verb particle, 彷徨い続け means to prowl, prowl meaning wandering around usually with some sort of intent.

Japanese sentence structure is inverse from English. So together you have Aura monologue: "To prowl within the Garganta spreading/extending to infinity" in a more clean English sounding translation you might see it as "Wandering inside the infinite Garganta". The point remains the same that in the expository monologue, Aura states that the Garganta spreads out/extends to/ fills out to an infinite distance.

As far as why I believe it non-hyperbolic/why I think it doesn't matter. First from VSBW we have this: "described has having infinite sizes or other synonyms, that should strongly indicate them being universes." So as long as it's implied clearly to be that big then it should be assumed universal in size. The Garganta would be the likely largest thing in the cosmos as it is the reishi goop that encompasses all, so it narratively makes sense for it to be at least that size. As for it being hyperbolic, there's nothing contradicting Garganta being this large, and the author gives us this information in a monologue where Aura is describing the Garganta. So it's clear to me that it being exposition implies it isn't hyperbolic.

Is Garganta is so big then why Ichigo, Chad, Uryu, and other shinigami captains were crossing through the garganta to travel through and from hueco mundo. The pro-bleach side stand by this.

You can travel a finite distance within an infinite space. For example, it's postulated our IRL universe is infinite in size, yet there's a finite space between Earth and the Moon. Infinite space =/= infinite distance between everything in said space.

There isn't evidence that walking 10 meters in Soul Society = walking 10 meters in Garganta, for example. So saying that the Garganta contains all the other dimensions isn't the same to me as saying the Garganta must be >>>>> the size of the other dimensions.

I guess I was unclear in my original post but I wasn't implying that because the Garganta contains realms it must be bigger than those realms. More that the Garganta encapsulating everything is just narratively consistent with it being utterly massive.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The Garganta houses countless other dimensions inside of it called Kyogoku. They’re being formed all the time by souls that go off course amongst other things which you know as the Valley of Screams.

There is nothing that suggests the Garganta is as you describe it. It’s clearly stated to encompass everything else which would include the worlds which make up the universe. There is no real reason to suggest just far off things just for the sake off it without backing it up with something.

 

[Alive90Achilles]

that is irrelevant to the other statement about it expanding.

You said it wasn't quantifiable. It having reishi disapproves that. So it's not irrelevant lol

Is Garganta is so big then why Ichigo, Chad, Uryu, and other shinigami captains were crossing through the garganta to travel through and from hueco mundo. The pro-bleach side stand by this.

How does it insinuate that they traversed it entirely?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

無限に広がる黒腔の by itself can mean "infinitely expanding black cavity".

Remove the words for black cavity and you get "無限に広がるの".

By itself the word here is "広がる" which can mean to spread, to expand, to extend.

It is definitely talking about infinite expansion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Just to clarify, I'm not sure what Matthew was getting at with the Garganta being unquantifiable but from my earlier point, I mean to say that the Garganta isn't quantifiable in terms of comparing it to the dimensions inside itself.

That's what I meant. I thought it was clear.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is what was agreed up on. Just look at the Soul King thread. IMade made another section about Reishi and Kishi.

It literally wasn't it was agreed that Soul King created the Garganta and the Realms.

 

[Damage3245]

That's what I meant. I thought it was clear.

Okay, no problem.

 

[Alive90Achilles]

Basically what Arc said above

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It literally wasn't it was agreed that Soul King created the Garganta and the Realms.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Do you need an explanation again how he created Reishi?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

無限に広がる黒腔の by itself can mean "infinitely expanding black cavity".

Remove the words for black cavity and you get "無限に広がるの".

By itself the word here is "広がる" which can mean to spread, to expand, to extend.

It is definitely talking about infinite expansion.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/771405528131698728/794689982269882418/Capturevas.PNG

Google Translate is not an accurate translation source.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Wouldn't Tier 2 Ichigo be a massive outlier? I mean he has zero feats even remotely close to that level

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1st we need to discuss the rating, I have some reservations with some of the people being whatever rating.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Here is a .org site's definition for 広がる: https://jisho.org/search/広がる
Matched by this site: https://tangorin.com/words?search=広がる
And here: https://www.japandict.com/広がる?lang=eng

None of which use "to expand". So no your faulty translation matt doesn't mean it's clearly talking about infinite expansion.

 

[LightReinh12345]

I think Either we should weit for CYFW official English translations Or ask someone to translate it properly
Cause Google translations aren't reliable

 

[Alive90Achilles]

Wouldn't Tier 2 Ichigo be a massive outlier? I mean he has zero feats even remotely close to that level

There's a reason why Ichibei was planning on using Ichigo as the new sk

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Wouldn't Tier 2 Ichigo be a massive outlier? I mean he has zero feats even remotely close to that level

The only real fight this ichigo had was vs SK yhwach so he does not have anti feats

 

[Zoro21043]

Wouldn't Tier 2 Ichigo be a massive outlier?

no as none but god tiers scale as they "transcend" everyone else

I mean he has zero feats even remotely close to that level

his feats would be damaging yhwach and also ichibei planned on turning him into rei o

 

[AppleLord]

Wouldn't Tier 2 Ichigo be a massive outlier? I mean he has zero feats even remotely close to that level

Tokinada caused a problem for the entire Gotei 13. Shikai Kenpachi > Hikone > Tokinada

Ichigo is beyond all of these fodders.

 

[Regidian]

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Do you need an explanation again how he created Reishi?

How can he had create reishi when it's was something that alredy exist in the old universe?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Didn't Reishi emerge naturally with the original Hollow and the Soul King killed him?

 

[Zoro21043]

I think Either we should weit for CYFW official English translations Or ask someone to translate it properly
Cause Google translations aren't reliable

the official can also have flaws like unohanas statement or aizens kurohitsugi
and arc knows japanese he isnt using google

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

However, let's say that the Garganta is infinitely expanding. Our universe as been expanding for some 14 billion years, and the Garganta has been around for possibly longer, so even if it was just "infinitely expanding" it should still be a universal sized space.

However, you (Matt) use google translate which is entirely inaccurate. I do not use google translate, please use more reputable sources.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Volume 3, I purchased it myself so I could start translating bits and pieces being that I've taken and am taking Japanese in college atm. VIZ releases it in March.

First a common misconception I'm seeing: "the Garganta is expanding" <- this is never stated so I don't know why it's being brought up.

Aura monologues on page 396 of CFYOW III in the Japanese version: "無限に広がる黒腔の中を彷徨い続け"

無限に is a common phrase regarding 無限 (the kanji for infinite/infinity), in which it means to infinite or to infinity.

広がる is the verb to extend/to spread/to fill out. To extend obviously being a verb used to describe the size of something.

黒腔の中 means inside the Garganta, 黒腔 = Garganta, 中 = inside where の connects inside to Garganta.

を is a verb particle, 彷徨い続け means to prowl, prowl meaning wandering around usually with some sort of intent.

Japanese sentence structure is inverse from English. So together you have Aura monologue: "To prowl within the Garganta spreading/extending to infinity" in a more clean English sounding translation you might see it as "Wandering inside the infinite Garganta". The point remains the same that in the expository monologue, Aura states that the Garganta spreads out/extends to/ fills out to an infinite distance.

As far as why I believe it non-hyperbolic/why I think it doesn't matter. First from VSBW we have this: "described has having infinite sizes or other synonyms, that should strongly indicate them being universes." So as long as it's implied clearly to be that big then it should be assumed universal in size. The Garganta would be the likely largest thing in the cosmos as it is the reishi goop that encompasses all, so it narratively makes sense for it to be at least that size. As for it being hyperbolic, there's nothing contradicting Garganta being this large, and the author gives us this information in a monologue where Aura is describing the Garganta. So it's clear to me that it being exposition implies it isn't hyperbolic.

@Damage3245 your thoughts?

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Wouldn't Tier 2 Ichigo be a massive outlier? I mean he has zero feats even remotely close to that level

If only Garganta is accepted universal, I think only Yhwach and Prime Reio can be tier 2, if this tier 2 is accepted, I will open Crt about it because it sounds like that for me, but if hueco mundo or muken are accepted as universal, there is no chance of being an outlier.

 

[LightReinh12345]

the official can also have flaws like unohanas statement or aizens kurohitsugi
and arc knows japanese he isnt using google

I said that to matthew's translation btw

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Didn't Reishi emerge naturally with the original Hollow and the Soul King killed him?

Spoiler: What was in CRT

Where Did the Reishi Come From?
I'd assume many would ask if the Soul King made Reishi or Reishi already existed and the Soul King manipulated it to make Soul Society and Hueco Mundo including their extra assests.

I actually believe it's a bit of both, I think it's reasonable to assume he made it and then he manipulated it due to a passage of the Soul King's past from "Can't Fear Your Own World":

The monk spoke in a matter-of-fact tone; quietly reminiscing about the world that existed before the birth of Hueco Mundo and the World of the Living.

"But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."

"That was the Rei-o of the first era...?"

Since the worlds of Soul Society and Hueco Mundo did not exist, Hollows existed along humans and devoured them, amassing power without restriction until the formed into a condensed giant Menos.

Reishi had not existed in these times; however, the Soul King defeated this Hollow and transmuted it's condensed body into Reishi. The Reishi that is the worlds of Hueco Mundo and Soul Society.

The Soul King was powerful into to defeat this Hollow and turned it's body into Reishi and must have used the Reishi to form Hueco Mundo (and it's assests) and Soul Society (and it's assests).

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If only Garganta is accepted universal, I think only Yhwach and Prime Reio can be tier 2, if this tier 2 is accepted, I will open Crt about it because it sounds like that for me, but if hueco mundo or muken are accepted as universal, there is no chance of being an outlier.

By the definition of outlier on this site, the God Tiers being tier 2 cannot provably be an outlier.

 

[Alive90Achilles]

"Infinitely expanding" is misconstruing context. The fact that it encompasses two universes (SS and WotL) supports it being a 4D construct.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

However, you (Matt) use google translate which is entirely inaccurate. I do not use google translate, please use more reputable sources.

The other sources don't contradict me and I used them too. It still gives the idea that the Garganta is an expanding void.

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage3245 your thoughts?

This is partly why I hoped that this revision wouldn't come up until the last novel was out in English.

I don't have any in-depth knowledge in Japanese so I'm not sure as to whether your translation is the best.

But leaving the translation aside for the moment, and accepting for the moment that it is infinite in size, where does that leave us?

The Soul King doesn't seem to actively maintain the existence of the Garganta in the earlier statements about what would happen in the Soul King didn't exist.

The Garganta being destroyed only seemed to come up as a possibility when it was mentioned about Yhwach deliberately destroying the worlds.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Garganta is filled with countless pocket dimensions being made by lost souls.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The other sources don't contradict me and I used them too. It still gives the idea that the Garganta is an expanding void.

You haven't linked any sources. Meanwhile I've linked sources that contradict you.

Also this:

However, let's say that the Garganta is infinitely expanding. Our universe as been expanding for some 14 billion years, and the Garganta has been around for possibly longer, so even if it was just "infinitely expanding" it should still be a universal sized space

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Didn't Reishi emerge naturally with the original Hollow and the Soul King killed him?

no, reishi already existed he destroyed the hollow and transmuted him into sands of reishi

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This is partly why I hoped that this revision wouldn't come up until the last novel was out in English.

I don't have any in-depth knowledge in Japanese so I'm not sure as to whether your translation is the best.

But leaving the translation aside for the moment, and accepting for the moment that it is infinite in size, where does that leave us?

The Soul King doesn't seem to actively maintain the existence of the Garganta in the earlier statements about what would happen in the Soul King didn't exist.

The Garnganta being destroyed only seemed to come up as a possibility when it was mentioned about Yhwach deliberately destroying the worlds.

It's stated that if Yhwach won even the Garganta would be gone, as in Yhwach was going to destroy the Garganta. Well I'm getting off for the night so I won't be responding for a while.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Why people talking about balance of souls again? All this was addressed in funny enough the same SK thread. The novel didn’t reveal anything new even though that one dude posted some fake statements like the light years one lol.

 

[Damage3245]

It's stated that if Yhwach won even the Garganta would be gone, as in Yhwach was going to destroy the Garganta.

I know. What I meant was that the Soul King's passive nature wasn't maintaining the Garganta.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

However, let's say that the Garganta is infinitely expanding. Our universe as been expanding for some 14 billion years, and the Garganta has been around for possibly longer, so even if it was just "infinitely expanding" it should still be a universal sized space.

The Garganta isn't that old.

 

[LightReinh12345]

This is partly why I hoped that this revision wouldn't come up until the last novel was out in English.

I don't have any in-depth knowledge in Japanese so I'm not sure as to whether your translation is the best.

But leaving the translation aside for the moment, and accepting for the moment that it is infinite in size, where does that leave us?

The Soul King doesn't seem to actively maintain the existence of the Garganta in the earlier statements about what would happen in the Soul King didn't exist.

The Garganta being destroyed only seemed to come up as a possibility when it was mentioned about Yhwach deliberately destroying the worlds.

I heard that the Revision will come after the English translation is released as well

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

The Garganta being destroyed only seemed to come up as a possibility when it was mentioned about Yhwach deliberately destroying the worlds.

if i remember right they stated that if the SK was destroyed so would garganta and YH also has the power to destroy it

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The Garganta would be at least 1,000,000 years old which is about how long ago the new world was made.