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Bill Cipher: Hax and Speed upgrades

When we say destory the universe in concepts we mean destroy the space in it to make the concepts not exist. Killing the humans is a addition to that destruction which is not fair to use as an argument
You are missing the point since meaning is bound to conscious judgment or perception. If the beings doing the perceiving are bound to reality, then in a roundabout way, the concept would be as well since they would be bound to that which is bound to reality. For instance, if I erased the timeline, the perception never happened and the concept never existed. This goes in direct opposition to what a type one concept is.
 
So isn't what is referred to here as the "universe" basically all of reality? Or is it just one of an infinite number universes?
Why wouldn't it be?
Because in order for something to be a type 2 or type 1 concept, it must first affect the "reality" (it means all of existence) in the verse.

If it affects a limited area within the "whole reality" in the verse, it does not comply with the definition of this concept (for type 2 or type 1.)

So, as far as I know, if this concept just encompass "only a person or a limited place," it would be type 3. But still ask a mod or admin
Yes I am. Plus other than Bill eating it, the Weirdmageddon (which was affecting the whole cosmology), said that "Meaning has no Meaning", implying he'd affecting said concepts.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
 
You are missing the point since meaning is bound to conscious judgment or perception. If the beings doing the perceiving are bound to reality, then in a roundabout way, the concept would be as well since they would be bound to that which is bound to reality. For instance, if I erased the timeline, the perception never happened and the concept never existed. This goes in direct opposition to what a type one concept is.
When we talk about Type 2 concepts they can be destroyed if their reality they depend on is destroyed, remember we talk about the REALITY. THE SPACE. Not the beings in it.

This logic would mean any concept that depends on anything is a Type 2 even though some depend on different stuff than reality and are Type 1 because of that
 
When we talk about Type 2 concepts they can be destroyed if their reality they depend on is destroyed, remember we talk about the REALITY. THE SPACE. Not the beings in it.

This logic would mean any concept that depends on anything is a Type 2 even though some depend on different stuff than reality and are Type 1 because of that
But the beings in reality are bound to space, time, et cetera. If I erased history, all of the people doing the perceiving would have never done the perceiving to create the concept; therefore, the concept is bound to time and type 1 concepts are not.
 
So isn't what is referred to here as the "universe" basically all of reality? Or is it just one of an infinite number universes
I think he's talking in general rather than just existing in a specific universe.
Because in order for something to be a type 2 or type 1 concept, it must first affect the "reality" (it means all of existence) in the verse.

If it affects a limited area within the "whole reality" in the verse, it does not comply with the definition of this concept (for type 2 or type 1.)

So, as far as I know, if this concept just encompass "only a person or a limited place," it would be type 3. But still ask a mod or admin
Actually not, the scale which a concept is used isn't really relevant for its type.
 
But the beings in reality are bound to space, time, et cetera. If I erased history, all of the people doing the perceiving would have never done the perceiving to create the concept; therefore, the concept is bound to time and type 1 concepts are not.
You wouldnt be just erasing time, you would be erasing time and the human minds. This is an unfair analogy to make
 
You wouldnt be just erasing time, you would be erasing time and the human minds. This is an unfair analogy to make
Once again, the human mind is bound to time and functions over time, and the perceptions that created the meanings happened at certain points in time. If I erased those points in time, the meanings would disappear. By your logic, the type 2 concept of a rock would actually be type 1, because I am not just destroying reality; I am destroying reality and rocks.
 
By your logic, the type 2 concept of a rock would actually be type 1, because I am not just destroying reality; I am destroying reality and rocks.
A concept of a rock that is not dependant on reality would be Type 1. But destroying the reality would also destroy the rocks, destroying the GF reality wont destroy the counciouss metafictional minds. Mindscape is not apart of reality technically

I will probably make a CRT thats strictly about the CM since this one is going off the rails
 
The argument in short is that "meaning" in Gravity Falls, as explained from Bill himself, is a concept that is shaped from human consciousness and isn't built in the universe. This is a direct reference to the Jungian Archetypes, which are essentially patterns that exists outside of the physical world and that are within the subconscious, which everything and everyone indirectly uses as basic models to shape other ideas (hence why they're accepted as being Type 1 concepts).
This is just saying "Life has no intrinsic meaning beyond what you consciously impose on it." It's neither a reference to Jung (And even if it was, it wouldn't amount to anything whatsoever) nor indicative of Conceptual Manipulation. Literally just basic existentialist shit.

I also hope you're not taking Bill saying that life tastes like thymine, uracil and cytosine as "Bill can eat the concept of life." Are you?

Infinite Speed seems invalid as well, reading above.
 
Seems Type 1 CM and Infinite speed have been rejected, idk what the others think about Time Manipulation since that's the only one I can think of that sticks out to me personally.

As I mentioned, rest seems fine.
 
Agree with everything except speed part; I’m neutral on Infinite Speed. As long as I love Bill, it is still quite iffy to me. On the other hand, can’t he be given Attack Speed on such a rate? Because even if it is decided that Bill does not get there, the Rift does.
 
Agree with everything except speed part; I’m neutral on Infinite Speed. As long as I love Bill, it is still quite iffy to me. On the other hand, can’t he be given Attack Speed on such a rate? Because even if it is decided that Bill does not get there, the Rift does.
So...
Neutral about Infinite speed; I am mainly asking for more context. But the rest look good.
I disagree with Infinite speed for reasons stated. The rest of the OP seems fine.
Are you fine with Infinite Attack Speed at least?
 
Disagree with CM 1 and infinite speed FRA

Also, I would like to question the unconvetional resistance towards petrification and Transmutation?

He is by no means resisting it, just doing actions that goes around it, and that dose not qualifies as a resistance.

As the description goes, He is just leaving the body as a response to being petrified.... SO let's ask ourself a question, since when do we expect petrification and transmutation to affect non physical stuff?
Sorry if this is necro, but Resistance is defined as "the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means", being unaffected by the ability itself (transmutation/petrification) would be Immunity.


And, uh, going through this CRT I think at least Possibly/Likely Infinite Speed should be fine. It is blatantly shown that Rift is inherently connected to Bill himself, and although UES does not really cover speed part, it is still possible/likely that the link would affect his Speed too just like AP, Durability, SS and overall power.
 
Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation

The argument in short is that "meaning" in Gravity Falls, as explained from Bill himself, is a concept that is shaped from human consciousness and isn't built in the universe. This is a direct reference to the Jungian Archetypes, which are essentially patterns that exists outside of the physical world and that are within the subconscious, which everything and everyone indirectly uses as basic models to shape other ideas (hence why they're accepted as being Type 1 concepts).

Bill should have the full NPI on Type 1 concepts in his Mindscape key, as he did taste said meaning, and full Type 1 CM in his Physical Form, as the Weirdmageddon has completely altered reality to the point that meaning has no meaning, implying that the Weirdmageddon can also alter these archetypes.
Bill's comment doesn't provide anything that would point towards "meaning" being a type 1 concept. Saying that meaning is determined by conscious judgment doesn't make it a concept. A concept is an abstraction that all particular instances of something are derived from. The concept of red is the global unifying concept that all red things borrow from, or represent, etc. It's almost hard to explain why this fails to qualify because it's not clear at all why you thought that.

Also, Jungian archetypes refer to universal patterns in our instincts/collective unconscious. Bill saying "human judgment determines meaning" doesn't have... anything to do with Jungian archetypes. Archetypes are repeating motifs that occur in all humanity irrespective of which culture you belong to.

Resistance to Time Manipulation

As the Nightmare Realm is a place that is totally outside time, laws, casuality and physics due to it being outside all the universes, Bill should also not be affected from time due to him having made the Nightmare Realm his home, which is already explained from his Type 4 Acausality that is already in his profile.
Being outside the universe doesn't mean it's "outside time, laws, causality, and physics." Also being from a place that is atemporal doesn't mean you have resistance to time manip.

Bill should be comparable to the Rift due to him not only having created the Rift, but also having his powers linked to and empowered from the Rift, other than also sustaining it, as when he dies, the Rift also disappears along with all of its effects, implying some UES kind of stuff going on here.
Bill creating the Rift doesn't mean he is as fast as it.
 
...do you even know why I made this claim? The Nightmare Realm is explicitly said to lack all of these.
Then you should write the OP to reflect that. If you represent your reasoning as "the NR is outside x,y,z, due to being outside the universe" then naturally I'm going to point out that being outside the universe doesn't mean you lack those things.

Once you go to a place that has time, you would be subject to time.
 
Then you should write the OP to reflect that. If you represent your reasoning as "the NR is outside x,y,z, due to being outside the universe" then naturally I'm going to point out that being outside the universe doesn't mean you lack those things.
Tbh the reason for him having Type 4 Acausality is this:

Bill lived in and made Nightmare Realm his new home[4] which is not only described as a place that lacks laws[4] such as physics[4] or causality[6], but also implied to be outside time[3] due to it being a dimension between dimensions, each being a different space-time that follows its own rules[4]
Once you go to a place that has time, you would be subject to time.
Tbh is more off Bill working differently from the rest of the dimensions, given that unlike them he isn't under any law, much less under time itself, as also said here.
 
I agree with Transmutation Resistance, Space Survival and Time Manipulation Resistance.

Disagree with CM 1 and Neutral on Speed Infinire.
But, iirc Bill could manipulate type 2 and 3 concepts and there was more support for Speed Infinite.
Since the barrier contained Weirdmageddon, without it the wave of madness would eventually wipe out the entire universe which is infinite. I guess you could give him Speed Attack Infinite or something.
And without any limitations Bill was going to free the world from all kinds of laws and limitations (Including laws of physics, causality, time, etc.) which would count for CM 2 and 3.
Although I suppose this would deserve its own CRT and more research.
 
Since the barrier contained Weirdmageddon, without it the wave of madness would eventually wipe out the entire universe which is infinite. I guess you could give him Speed Attack Infinite or something.
Destroying it is unquantifiable for speed, because we don't know the distances between them
 
Tbh I think it was accepted just Space Survival, Time Hax Resistance and Transmutation.

I believe enough time has passed for it, methinks.

Infinite attack speed and CM2 should be left for another time.
 
Tbh I think it was accepted just Space Survival, Time Hax Resistance and Transmutation.

I believe enough time has passed for it, methinks.

Infinite attack speed and CM2 should be left for another time.
Should be left for another time it was rejected wholesale, also time manipulation is still being discussed so let’s not try to hastily past a CRT that isn’t fully accepted
 
Should be left for another time it was rejected wholesale, also time manipulation is still being discussed so let’s not try to hastily past a CRT that isn’t fully accepted
Time Res was accepted from DDM and Maverick.

Only Deagonx disagreed with it.
 
Sounds like it’s just talking about the realm and not Bill himself.
I honestly think at least "tyranny of time" is about Bill himself, as he later mocks people for being victims of “natural selection”, so it’s more about individuals being oppressed by natural phenomenas rather than the places they live in.

Also how did this CRT come to the point we are trying to remove his Acausality Type 4? The reasoning was already accepted here. Or did I misunderstand something?
 
That’s not enough.
Why not? Bill himself knows what it means to be tied to things like time and causality. When he arrived in NR, he began to assimilate the nature of the place and, seeing the benefits of not having laws, he was going to erase them from the entire multiverse.
 
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