Bill Cipher correction/revision/downgrade

[John_Werner]

Then Bill's speed shouldn't be immeasurable.

 

[Elizhaa]

Immeasurable (Movement beyond linear time. This is why the speed cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see note 5 below.)

 

[John_Werner]

I know what's immeasurable. The thing is Bill shouldn't be immeasurable. Those "immeasurable" statements comes from his lowest keys, which should logically gives immeasurable speed for bill on his dreamscape and restricted version (of course i am assuming here those statements give bill immeasurable speed but i disagreed on this). The strongest key uses a reasoning which would only scale to his dreamscape key but that's inconsistent and his profile here only states bill has none and unknown speed (dreamscape and restricted). So this reasoning isn't valid. The second one, since that reasoning comes from when bill was in a higher tier then it's useless now. Therefore Bill speed shouldn't be immeasurable

 

[Sound_of_Infinity]

Some Bill believe was 3-D because of the physical form statement since he was 2-D initially despite his numerous 3-D insults.
And that a key reason, why Bill restricted form is no longer Tier 2.

His restricted key right now is still 4-D tho

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Bills immesurable speed statements come in his 2D state.

Unless you want to say that everyone is immesurable, he sure as hell isn't.


As for his other keys, why would they be? Firstly, we agreed that his "restricted" key isn't even a thing, as the barrier only restricts his range. Secondly, he has no feats or even statemensts that say he's that fast but he has plenty anti-feats. Now say what you will about PiS, but that's only valid when it contradicts stuff.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Second and third key should be fused, as the barrier only affected his range.

Resistance to Mind Manip should be resistance to Madness type 3.

His abilities should be divided into keys.


As for AP, I'll tell the honest thruth, It make no sense.

The creators simply decided to make him an uber powerfull thing, and then later added contradictory stuff because why not? It should simply be "Unknow, at least High 3-A, a most 2-A"


I'll post what I think the profile should be like in a bit.

 

[DMB_1]

As for durability?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

That would be more along the lines of "At least High 3-A possibly 2-A", which is fine

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not really, no.

His best possible feat in dura would be assuming his body is unharmed by the universe exploding.

Even assuming that all of he multiverse is destroyed at once, not each universe is connected, and their explosions wouldn't stack onto each other.

So Unknow, likely Low 2-C.

 

[Elizhaa]

Even assuming that all of he multiverse is destroyed at once, not each universe is connected, and their explosions wouldn't stack onto each other. So Unknow, likely Low 2-C.

Ricsi-viragosi, the explosion of the Multiverse that you point stated is extremely Low-ball. The all at once argument, in this case, mean 2-A durability.

According to the Tiering System,

Multiverse level+: Characters who can destroy and/or create a countably infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums.

So, Bill Cipher would still survive having a countably infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums exploding.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No.

I litirally explained why the explosion wouldn't have 2-A potency behind it.

Even assuming that all of he multiverse is destroyed at once, not each universe is connected, and their explosions wouldn't stack onto each other.

He isn't creating the explosion himself, it just naturally happens because he is there, much like how time baby said. This is the best feat we can assume he survives, and there is no reason to assume that the explosion that naturally occurs due to his presence is equal to his AP.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Bill

THIS PARTY NEVER STOPS. TIME IS DEAD AND MEANING HAS NO MEANING. EXISTENCE IS UPSIDE DOWN AND I REIGN SUPREME. WELCOME ONE AND ALL TO WEIRDMAGEDDON! ~ Bill Cipher during Weirdmageddo​ PAIN IS HILARIOUS! ~ Bill Cipher while controlling Dipper's body​ Summary Bill Cipher is a triangular dream demon who exists in the Mind/Dreamscape. He is the true antagonist of the Disney XD show, Gravity Falls, secretly being responsible for many of the most important events of and leading up to the show. Years ago, Bill made contact Stanford Filbrick "Ford" Pines, posing as a muse who revealed himself only once every century to a special individual. Tricking Ford into thinking of him as a friend, Bill promised the answers to all of his questions so long as Ford allowed him access to his mind. "Inspiring" him, Ford eventually built a trans-universal portal that he believed would bring answers to important questions until he discovered the true purpose of the device. The portal would act as a connection between the real world and the realm of nightmares, allowing Bill and his gang of inter-dimensional criminals and monstrosities to pour through, leaving their decaying realm to claim another universe as their own. Horrified by this discovery, Ford threatened to shut the portal off and deny Bill access to the universe. Bill stated that it was already too late to stop his plans from coming to fruition, but it would be cute to watch Ford try. Ford shuts off the machine, though as the demon said, this only delayed the inevitable. Years later, after Bill reveals himself to more members of the Pines family and begins to stir up even more trouble in Gravity Falls, he inches his way closer to his goal. As of "Weirdmageddon Part I", he has managed to finally achieve physical form and enter the real world and is beginning to spread madness and chaos across the globe. Or so he would have had he not found himself stuck in Gravity Falls. Not knowing how to get rid of the barrier, Bill unfroze Ford, attempting to bribe him into revealing the secret to getting rid of the magnetic weirdness field keeping him trapped in the town. When Ford refused, Bill threatened to enter Ford's mind himself, only to be reminded that he can only do this if the two shake hands due to the terms of their deal. When these first two methods fail, Bill resorts to attempting to torture the information out of Ford. Before he can acquire any answers, Dipper, Mabel, Sta, and the other remaining members of the town show up in the Mystery Shack, which has now been converted into a powerful mech. After it defeats Bill's henchme, he steps in and attempts to destroy it, only to find it completely immune to his magic due to the magical protection set up by Dipper and Ford earlier in the season. While Bill is busy with the Mystery Shack mech, Dipper, Mabel, and the others attempt to rescue Ford. During Ford's explanation about the ancient prophecy which could allow them to defeat Bill, the demon manages to defeat the mech and returns to the pyramid, burning the wheel and turning everyone but the Pines into tapestries on the wall. Bill once again attempts to bribe Ford, promising to let Dipper and Mabel live if he just reveals how to get rid of the weirdness barrier. Unfortunately for Bill, Dipper and Mabel escape, leading the furious demon to chase the twins throughout the pyramid. After capturing them and returning to Stan and Ford, Bill states that he's going to kill the kids right then and there if Ford continued to refuse his offers. At the last second, Ford yells for Bill to stop, finally agreeing to allow him access to his mind. After entering Ford's mind, Bill is shocked to find he's accidentally entered Stan's mind instead, as the brothers tricked him by swapping clothes. Bill furiously declares that the deal is off, but finds himself trapped in a circle of flames as Ford uses his memory-erasing gun on Stan in order to destroy Bill. Bill frantically exclaims that Stan is making a big mistake, as his mind will be completely erased along with the demon, though this is a sacrifice Stan is willing to make. After violently contorting in agony, Bill is wiped from existence along with Stan's mind, sending his weirdness and henchmen back from whence they came and left his physical form as a lifeless statue. However, playing Bill's seemingly nonsensical final screams in reverse reveals he was actually reciting some sort of ancient incantation which would allow him to one day return to reality. Coupling this with several other hints scattered throughout the episode, along with the final image of the show being a close-up picture of Bill's statue, suggest that even with Gravity Falls having come to an end, the world hasn't seen the last of Bill Cipher. Powers and Stats Tier: 11-A | Unknow, at least High 3-A, at most 2-A Name: Unknown (His true name can cause madness in human beings), goes by Bill Cipher (As as a dimensional username), Bipper (When possessing Dipper Pines), Creature No. 326, Evil Triangle Origin: Gravity Falls Gender: Indefinable (Bill's species has 14 billion different genders) Age: At least 1 trillion years old (Has been trapped in the Dreamscape for this long) Classification: Unknown species from a lower plane of reality (It was revealed in Weirdmaggedon Part 3 that he was from the 2nd Dimension), "Dream Demon" Powers and Abilities: Regenerationn (At least Mid, regenerated a hole through his body), Flight/Levitatio, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Teleportation, Shapeshifting, Body Control, Elasticity, Berserk Mode, Sleep Inducement, Non-Corporeality (While in his Mindscape/Dreamscape form exists as a disembodied consciousness made out of pure energy), Dream Manipulation and Nightmare Inducement, Clairvoyance, Precognition (Foresaw the future and predicted exactly what Dipper was about to do in the next few seconds just before he wakes up. Asked Soos if he wanted to hear the exact time and date of his death), Enhanced Senses (Has knowledge of the past, present, and future. Knows that inanimate objects have feelings too, can see through paintings and representations of himself), Illusion Creation, Power Nullification (In the mindscape), Memory Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Telepathy, Resistance to Madness Manipulation/Mind Manipulation (One peek into the Nightmare Realm drove Fiddleford briefly insane. Bill lived there for 1 trillion years. Bill called Fiddleford's mind weak despite having the mental protecting metal plate). The following abilities can only be used if Bill tricks his target into making a deal with him: Soul Removal and Possession. | All previous, Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Non-Physical Interaction, Immortality (Types 1, 2, 3, and 6), Regenerationn (Low-Godly), Resurrection (By speaking a special incantation, can return to life after being erased), Magic, Reality Warping, Time Manipulation (Controls time itself), Time Travel (Appeared in the dreams of Blendin, who is from the future. Was able to possess him off-screen), Spatial Manipulation (Controls space), Inter-universal travel, Matter Manipulation (Controls matter), Durability Negation (Via Disintegration and many other powers), Technological Manipulation, Pocket Reality Manipulation & BFR (Created Mabelland and trapped Mabel there), Duplication (Briefly demonstrated in his battle against Shacktro), Data Manipulation, Astral Projection, Portal Creation, Forcefield Creation (Demonstrated here), Transmutation (Transformed a person into a chair. Transformed a tree into a tentacle and a utility pole into disembodied leg. Transformed six people into banners with a snap of his fingers), Petrification (Turned multiple people into statues. Turned Stanford into gold, twice), Summoning, Darkness Manipulation (Stalks Dipper as a shadow), Chaos Manipulation, Life Manipulation & Death Manipulation, Absorption, Electricity Manipulation, Weather Manipulation (Created a storm), Power Bestowal (Bill Cipher displayed this when doing this to his minions and can bestow infinite power and grant wishes by Deals), Accelerated Development, Gravity Manipulation, Creation, Biological Manipulation (Shuffled "the functions of every hole in" Preston's face), Animal Manipulation (Mabelland was made out of bugs), Causality Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Rage Power, Light Manipulation, Energy Projection, Energy Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Size Manipulation, Telekinesis (Can choke others without making contact with them, etc.), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Can create bubbles that can sometimes induce madness into whatever it touches, his true name can cause ecstasy and frenzy to mortals, and they would disintegrate into vapor), Breaking the Fourth Wall (Is aware of the real world and can "see" us, warped the show's intro into featuring him). Quantum Manipulation (By technicalities, Bill is made up by mathematical probability from existing in a state of quantum uncertainty based on the amount of information found about him since he is implied to contain numbers inside his body & geometrically-shaped as well mathematics Form), Resistance to Time Manipulation (Implied to have transcended this concept) Attack Potency: Plane level (Originally came from a dimension that he explicitly described as flat, showing he was indeed referring to the 2nd spatial dimension) | Unknow, at least High Universe level (One-shotted Time Baby, created Mabel Land which had infinite energy, called the citizens of Gravity Falls "three dimensional skin puppets") at most Multiverse level+ (Time Baby claimed that Bill could destroy the very fabric of existence. The Journal 3 written by Stanford Pines stated that Bill is a threat to the multiverse, which has been said to be infinite numerous times), able to ignore durability in many ways Speed: None | Unknow Lifting Strength: None | Unknow Striking Strength: None | Unknow Durability: Plane level | Unknow, likely at least Universe level+ (Would likely have survived the destruction of the universe, which is represented as an explosion by Time Baby) Stamina: Possibly Infinite Range: 2-dimensional | Low Multiversal (He has stated that he has access to multiple alternative realities), possibly Multiversal+ Standard Equipment: None Notable Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius, Is said to know "lots of things", such as the truth of many well-known conspiracies as well as future events, like the destruction of Gideon-bot and that Gideon Gleeful would go to prison. Bill is also able to look through the eye of anything that is made in his image, allowing him to know what occurs even when he isn't around Weaknesses: Bound inside of Gravity Falls due to it being an incredibly powerful magnet for weirdness. His Regenerationn seems to take a bit of time as he complained about how long it took him to regenerate his eye back. Memory erasure while he is in someone's mind can be used to erase him. However, as hinted by clues such as a hidden incantation Bill spoke in reverse, he can eventually return from being erased; he should get angered and will do irrational things at times and he is extremely cocky and arrogant Key: Before "Liberation" | Full Power Feats: Originated from the 2nd dimension trillions of years ago before "liberating" it and ascending to a higher dimension. Is both indirectly responsible for and the mastermind behind all of the mysteries surrounding Gravity Falls prior and up to the start of the series. Widely regarded as one of the most dangerous entities in existence, and a threat to the greater multiverse itself. Took over the Nightmare Realm, a plane between all other realms which is completely unbound by physical laws or rules, and is thus fated to eventually destroy itself. Ripped out Dipper's soul and possessed his body by making a deal with him Rearranged the function of every hole on Preston Northwest's face (turned his mouth into an eye, his ear into a nose, etc.). Created a wave of weirdness that caused different effects to occur on anyone and anything it hits (Spawned a tentacle in Soos' backyard, turned his grill into a monster, made Soos' grandmother into a chair, made Gompers the goat grow to an immense size, animated the church bell into a living thing, etc.). Created an enormous floating pyramid out of the ground. Turned a normal car into a pimped-out flying muscle car. Turned Ford into a statue with a laser and used him as a backscratcher. Pulled a gang of interdimensional monsters and criminals into the physical universe. Destroyed the Time Police and Time Baby with a single shot. Created bubbles of pure madness that distort whatever enters them in completely unknown, different, and random ways (Ex. Dipper and Wendy were temporarily turned into birds, anime characters, deli meat, and even live-action. Gideon and Ghost Eyes were turned into basic polygonal characters, women, and a silent cartoon.) Turned the moon into his eye. Warped the show's intro so that it featured him. Created numerous giant monsters, including a giant arm-head version of Louis C.K., a pteranodon, and Cthulhu. Able to view other realities (such as our own), as the message at the end of his version of the intro, when reversed and decrypted, says "I'm watching you, nerds". Created Mabel's prison bubble, an entirely separate realm which is filled with infinite energy, allowing those in it to receive anything they desire even before knowing what they want. It is also Bill's most diabolical creation yet as it requires "a heart made of titanium" to even resist its temptations inside. Regenerationn Created a physical form when he was lacking one. Instantly regenerated his hat after being hit by Ford's Quantum Destabiliser, which blasts objects into nonexistence, tough only his hat was damaged. Slowly regenerated his eye. He exist in a state of Quantum Uncertainty I EXIST IN A STATE OF QUANTUM UNCERTAINTY! THAT MEANS THAT EVERYTHING I AM, I'M ALSO NOT! IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOUR CAT IS DEAD! BLAME SCHRODINGER! HE'S A LOUSY PET SITTER!" Causality Manipulation, Physics Manipulation & Law Manipulation Bill claims that he'll rewrite "the rules" once he reaches his goal. "I ASK YOU WHY SHOULD TIME ONLY MOVE FORWARD WHY MUST CAUSE PRECEDE EFFECT WHO VOTED ON THE LAWS OF PHYSICS RULES ARE PERVERSIONS AGAINST ALL WILL THAT'S WHY IM ABOUT TO REWRITE THE WHOLE SYSTEM BUDDY AND NO ONE IS GOING TO STOP ME " Gallery Gravity Falls- Weirdmageddon Theme Song Others Notable Victories: Notable Losses: Thanos (Marvel Comics) Thanos's profile (2-A versions were used) Demiurge (11 eyes) Demiurge's Profile (Both were 2-A) Cronus (Saint Seiya) Cronus' profile (Both at 2-A, speed equalized) Vecna (Dungeons and Dragons) Vecna's profile Khorne (Warhammer 40,000) Khorne's Profile (2-B Khorne vs. 2-A Bill Cipher) Ryouga Akizuki (Zero Infinity - Devil of Maxwell) Ryouga Akizuki's Profile (Zero Infinity- Personal Ataraxia Ryouga and Restricted Bill were used, speed was equalized) Sailor Moo (Sailor Moon (Universe)) Sailor Moon's profile (2-A Bill Cipher vs 2-C Neo-Queen Serenity were used) Inconclusive Matches:

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

The barrier wasn't limiting his power. At least high 3-A possibly 2-A is best

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The barrier wasn't limiting his power. At least high 3-A possibly 2-A is best

Yeah, just edited it.


Was simply trying to see if the collapsable worked or not.

 

[DMB_1]

Pu the justification for the Low 2-C durability and Unknown statistics.

Then we'd need to remove some of his matches.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Put for low 2-C, but why for Unknown? It litirally boils down to we not knowing because we never actually seen it.

 

[DMB_1]

Also, I find weird how Bill is now both a Glass Cannon and a Stone Wall at the same time.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I dislike making him universe level+ dura. I think his dura should stay 2-A.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Do you have an actual argument for it? Because I don't like him being 2-A at all, since it only works by assuming that time baby was talking about the multiverse instead of the universe, that it scales to AP, that it would have been doon at once, and all othee kinds of stuff.

In-fact, I disagree with using any of his Reddt stuff too.


Unless you can explain why the universe exploding on its own should be 2-A, and multiple universes doing it at the same time would not stack the explosion potency, because they are not connected (It wouldn't be 2-A if they were connected to boot).

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If you discount his Reddit stuff, then he would lose causality manipulation and that can no longer be used as an argument lol.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Argument for what?

 

[DMB_1]

Argument for what?

Some poeple use it as an argument for him to win in Vs. Threads.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But... it's not really aplicable to combat at all.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

It's causality reversal/destruction IIRC

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Uh, no to the destruction, and likely no to reversal depending what you mean.

The only mention of casuality is that it shouldn't need to preceed he effect, so at most you can argue some stuff happening before the action was taken.

Like say Bill's eye being hurt before someone punches it. And this works on a multiversal scale, so it aplies to both his enemy and him.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

But... it's not really aplicable to combat at all.

My point exactly.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps you can ask some other staff members with good senses of judgement to comment here.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not much is being argued here.

His stats will take the middle ground, and the only thing questioned, the dura, is like that for lack of better feats or statements.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but I still prefer more staff input.

 

[Quantu]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

So should the profile be updated?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It may take a bit, since I have no access to a computer now.

Could you not copy paste it from above? If not, I'll do it an a few hours.

 

[Antvasima]

You can do it later. No problem.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Done

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I think this should be allright to close.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The Axolotl does not need to be updated then?