Big Multipliers for Hades ap buff? And perhaps some other stuff

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[Rabbit2002]

I think you just call staff to finish the thread

 

[Firestorm808]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the scaling chains in the series.

 

[StekFence]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the scaling chains in the series.

I made a summary towards the bottom of the thread,

Summary: Hades tanked a attack from God cloth seiya, the specific technique that seiya used, takes the amount of punches that seiya can perform in a second, and uses That as a multiplier for one punch. Thus, when seiya could punch 100 times a second, this technique had a multiplier of 100x. 7th sense seiya scales in speed to beings who can punch 100 million times a second. Thus, 7th sense seiya would have a 100 million times multiplier for his technique.

here. And the next message continues it. Would that help?

 

[Elizhaa]

Are there many major inconsistencies in the multipliers? The standard is pretty strict with high multipliers and currently, I am leaning to agree with Hasty12345's original take.

 

[StekFence]

Are there major inconsistencies in the multiplier?

Not really, since seiya wasn’t at his peak power when he attacked hades. So it go, Seiya<Seiyas Comet Fist(can’t harm hades)<Peak seiya(who can harm hades)<Peak comet fist. Other chars who harmed hades do it by either working together, which greatly amps total ap exponentially in saint seiya, or by virtue of being a god like hades Himself.

 

[StekFence]

The only possible inconsistency is that Seiya and his 4 friends who’s are equal to him did manage to cause a surface wound to hades working together. And the 4 also managed to push Hades back a little. However, in saint seiya, when chars combine their power, the total is increased exponentially, dwarfing the power of the characters. So, them doing anything at all when a 100 million multiplier does nothing makes sense. And yes, the exponential increase is more than 100 million. This is because when 3 gold Saints(comparable to seiya) combined their power in an attack, the attack was the strongest to exist at the time, excluding the gods. It was stronger than seiyas comet fist at the time, which had a multiplier of 100 million at this time. So there is precedent to seiya level characters combining their powers being > seiyas 100 million times multiplier.

 

[My_area]

Are there many major inconsistencies in the multipliers? The standard is pretty strict with high multipliers and currently, I am leaning to agree with Hasty12345's original take.

To my knowledge, there is no inconsistency with Seiya's pegasus comet fist being atleast 100 million times, as that wasn't able to injure Hades at all. Only thing which injured Hades was god cloth Seiya peak power(which doesn't contradict anything), Hades dying to Athena + 4 god cloths saints and Hades getting injured by combined power of 5 god cloth saints, both of which doesn't contradict 100 million times multiplier as it doesn't need to be linear, its common thing in fiction I believe to have exponent jumps than number of people which contributed to it.

And in 2-C scale, 100 million time multiplier shouldn't even matter, when just before for god cloth, they had to produce infinite power(infinite multiplier) which is mentioned in Seiya's profile.

With mine and Stek's comment, there should be no inconsistency with the multiplier.

 

[StekFence]

man, I just want to get this crt over with so I can move on to my next one.

 

[StekFence]

Summary: Hades tanked a attack from God cloth seiya, the specific technique that seiya used, takes the amount of punches that seiya can perform in a second, and uses That as a multiplier for one punch. Thus, when seiya could punch 100 times a second, this technique had a multiplier of 100x. 7th sense seiya scales in speed to beings who can punch 100 million times a second. Thus, 7th sense seiya would have a 100 million times multiplier for his technique.

BeginNing of summary.

 

[KingTempest]

The Billions of blows is a mistranslation for Aiolias section in the Spanish version. The actual translation is 100 million which is supported not just in the classic but in g as well

you should find the original raws. retranslated scans in different languages usually aren't the most reliable from what i've seen

 

[My_area]

you should find the original raws. retranslated scans in different languages usually aren't the most reliable from what i've seen

This is original raw though which is translated using other translator apps though dont worry its just a supporting evidence, the main evidence of light speed attack hitting at 100 million times per second comes from Aioria and Odyssesus statement. I will link them both just in case you missed them.

Aioria's statement

He also states that pre 7th sense seiya throws out 100 punches, which is why focused comet fist is 100x. He also says that 7th sense users throw out a hundred million. If seiya is comparable(he is btw) he should be able to do the same. This would mean his comet fist focuses more attacks and power.

Odysseus statement

This scan says that gold Saints can also strike at 100 million times per second. Both statements are said by Gold Saints. Gold Saints are logically experts on how gold Saints fight.

 

[KingTempest]

Oh I read it wrong, I thought your scan was the spanish one (looks nothing like spanish) and the one in the OP was the japanese one.

Alright then

 

[StekFence]

Oh I read it wrong, I thought your scan was the spanish one (looks nothing like spanish) and the one in the OP was the japanese one.

Alright then

Would that be a disagree or agree?

 

[StekFence]

Man I’m so tempted to just halt this one and do a way more important crt relating to speed.

 

[StekFence]

Actually, yes id like to return to this on a later date.

 

[Lynieryz]

Bump?

 

[StekFence]

yyyeaaah, with the sheer size of the multiplier I don't think the evidence is sufficient, sorry

Barely knowing the verse, Hasty makes sense to me. The multiplier stuff also seems... Somewhat Sus. 100 million is a gigantic multiplier.

Ok that’s fair, but what kind of evidence is sufficient? like, one shotting all but one enemy who took it at that multiplier level? Because I can show it’s done that if ud like.

 

[My_area]

Eh? Why really quote an old comments when me and you answered with how its perfectly reasonable with the wiki standards to say that god cloth Seiya's pegasus comet fist is 100 millions times his regular AP and Hades scales above via not being affected by it at all.

 

[StekFence]

Ok so the First time Seiya uses the comet fist attack at the level of the 7th sense is Here. Prior to this, seiya and ikki(who is at least as strong as seiya) attacks do very little to 0 damage to saga. By contrast, Saga brought Ikki to the verge of death in one attack, and then disintegrated the second time. So here we see that the difference in power between Seiya and Saga is very high. On top of this, Saga is wearing a gold cloth, which can tank the shockwaves of an Athena exclamation, an attack that is astronomically above any normal attack like the comet fist.

Seiya, who is in a state so bad that he will end up in the hospital for months after this fight, launches his comet fist while in his 7th sense key. The key where he can punch 100 million times in one second. Using the attack which combines every hit he can do in a second in one attack. This attack also overpowers the Galaxian explosion(The planets being destroyed is the galaxian explosion), which would have reduced him to particles if it landed. Upon receiving this attacks, Saga is bleeding for the first time, and has been so injured he literally failed to outrun a 13 year old boy who’s body is barely hanging on to life, despite the protection saga is wearing, while he took it at 100% health, coming from seiya whos body is basically giving out on him(Seiya currently can’t see,hear,smell, or feel), and who’s normal attacks at 100% power, again, do 0 Damage.

 

[My_area]

I agree with the outlined point, which further means that god cloth Seiya should move as fast as 7th sense Seiya via tagging and being faster than Thanatos who outright with a single blast shattered 5 gold cloths of the saints and they couldn't react to it. So a 100 million times multiplier(speed of light, average speed for gold saints) at minimum should be given for god cloth saints and it not affecting Hades at all means Hades should upscale from it.

 

[StekFence]

The second time it’s used at this level is vs Seahorse Baian. Now, Baian is wearing a somewhat weaker armor then saga, which is why it’s cracked before the attack, but Baian himself has taken pretty much no damage. In fact, he’s not even worried that much, he’s only shocked such a low ranking warrior damaged his armor. Plus, baian was holding back, lowering his dura. However, after he stops holding back, Seiyas comet fist comepltely shatters his armor in multiple points, Baian is reduced to crawling on the floor, and will die soon after. Hes struggling to even speak after it.

Basically, it’s obviously intended as an attack that is exceedingly more powerful then normal, and shows this by one shorting people he previously could barely damage, if at all.
I don’t think anyone disagreed with the logic behind the multiplier, considering it comes from many canon manga scans, but I think this should be sufficient to prove it actually functions as intended.

TLDR-Manga basically states it’s a 100 Million times multiplier, and said multiplier on attack has one shot every enemy barring the literal final boss

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Bumo

 

[My_area]

Post equivalent of fossil with just us alive

 

[StekFence]

Mm. bump

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Still here for it

 

[StekFence]

Ok so the First time Seiya uses the comet fist attack at the level of the 7th sense is Here. Prior to this, seiya and ikki(who is at least as strong as seiya) attacks do very little to 0 damage to saga. By contrast, Saga brought Ikki to the verge of death in one attack, and then disintegrated the second time. So here we see that the difference in power between Seiya and Saga is very high. On top of this, Saga is wearing a gold cloth, which can tank the shockwaves of an Athena exclamation, an attack that is astronomically above any normal attack like the comet fist.

Seiya, who is in a state so bad that he will end up in the hospital for months after this fight, launches his comet fist while in his 7th sense key. The key where he can punch 100 million times in one second. Using the attack which combines every hit he can do in a second in one attack. This attack also overpowers the Galaxian explosion(The planets being destroyed is the galaxian explosion), which would have reduced him to particles if it landed. Upon receiving this attacks, Saga is bleeding for the first time, and has been so injured he literally failed to outrun a 13 year old boy who’s body is barely hanging on to life, despite the protection saga is wearing, while he took it at 100% health, coming from seiya whos body is basically giving out on him(Seiya currently can’t see,hear,smell, or feel), and who’s normal attacks at 100% power, again, do 0 Damage.

The second time it’s used at this level is vs Seahorse Baian. Now, Baian is wearing a somewhat weaker armor then saga, which is why it’s cracked before the attack, but Baian himself has taken pretty much no damage. In fact, he’s not even worried that much, he’s only shocked such a low ranking warrior damaged his armor. Plus, baian was holding back, lowering his dura. However, after he stops holding back, Seiyas comet fist comepltely shatters his armor in multiple points, Baian is reduced to crawling on the floor, and will die soon after. Hes struggling to even speak after it.

Basically, it’s obviously intended as an attack that is exceedingly more powerful then normal, and shows this by one shorting people he previously could barely damage, if at all.
I don’t think anyone disagreed with the logic behind the multiplier, considering it comes from many canon manga scans, but I think this should be sufficient to prove it actually functions as intended.

TLDR-Manga basically states it’s a 100 Million times multiplier, and said attack has one shot every enemy barring the literal final boss

So, Hades tanked a comet fist from god cloth Pegasus Seiya, it did very little damage, if any. Comet fist is said to be a technique that combines all the punches of Pegasus meteor fist in one blow. Currently, it’s accepted that seiyas comet fist has a multiplier of 100x.
However, this is in reference to silver saga seiya. After Seiya unlocks his 7th sense, he gains speed that should be comparable to aiolias. Aiolia has states that pre 7th sense seiya throws out 100 punches, which is why focused comet fist is 100x. He also says that 7th sense users throw out a hundred million. If seiya is comparable(he is btw via being a 7th sense user) he should be able to do the same. This would mean his comet fist focuses more attacks and power.
This means that 7th sense and beyond seiya, should get a higher ap of 100millionx when using his comet fist,
So, hades dura should scale to 100 millionsx that. Athena can hurt hades. Hades is stronger than athena. This affects everyone who tanked A comet fist(only Hades), and those who scale to that person.



agree:6 Rabbit,Area,Rize,Theend,Aerrow,Unshake
disagree:1 Confluct
neutral:1 hasty,Armor

These are my arguments I want any staff who come here to read. The Top 2 paragraphs attempt to establish that the comet fist is vastly stronger then Seiyas one ap, to a ridiculous degree, and the last paragraph establishes the scaling, and that The multiplier shouldn’t be 100x as currently used, but in fact 100 million.

 

[KingTempest]

Might have to be neutral. As it does prove there's a multiplier there, idk if this is enough proof wiki wise

 

[StekFence]

I understand. I just think it should work, because the manga says “hey this attacks is x strong”, and then shows it one shotting people left and right.

 

[My_area]

I dont know why it wont be enough considering the comet fist by using same principle of all 100 punches combined is accepted as 100 times multiplier in Silver Saint arc(hence their Small Country level ratings) so it shouldn't be a issue in later arc where their speeds have increased much more, so punches per seconds to be combined will be more. Also it doesn't really push them to ridiculous tiers considering they are already 2-C

 

[My_area]

I also came back after reading the multiplier page and think multiplier of such vast degrees can pass. Comet fist AP is much higher than whenever Seiya uses it anyways so not like enemies become comparable to that multiplier unless he surpasses them, he uses that to damage opponents he couldn't damage before such as Misty, Baian(though specifics are unclear, I need to reread again) and Saga and all 3 were previously overpowering Seiya in some regard. Only one it doesn't work is Hades because he is basically the final antagonist of the classic Saint Seiya and is massively superior to god cloth saints including Seiya, in fact Athena + 4 god cloth saints were needed to beat him, so Hades superiority isn't contradicted either. That 100 million multiplier doesn't push anyone to any ridiculous tier since Saga and Hades on their own are already tier 2 so it doesn't need greater evidence to prove the showing of such large multiplier. Finally as I said before, it's consistent with how comet fist is treated with slower speeds like against Misty where same mechanic(focusing his 100 punch into one and directly stated by Mu) is accepted within the wiki, so a faster 7th sense Seiya with much higher speed gap should be logical on that ground as well. Scans for them are already posted by Stek before.

All in all, its uncontradicted, logical and doesn't push anyone to ridiculous higher tier needing of backup, so it should work. Now all we can do is wait for staff members to comment their thoughts more.

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[Confluctor]

Can I get a quick tl;Dr please? It's been a long time. Like a very short one. Thanks

 

[StekFence]

K. A slower version of seiya can punch 100x a second. This makes his comet fist technique a 100x multiplier. A faster version can punch 100 millionx in a second, so it should make his comet fist a 100 millions multiplier.

The story has established this technique as one shotting a foe he couldnt harm in the slightest, even if he punched them hundreds of millions of times.
plus, many ss knowledgables have agreed so I hope that helps.

 

[Confluctor]

Thanks.

Can you walk me through with the slower version. Is that a different form? Or an earlier version of him?

 

[StekFence]

Just an earlier, weaker version

 

[Confluctor]

Got it.

So, this new multiplier, what exactly will be their new values? Sorry if it's already mentioned before but there is just so much read through.