Big Multipliers for Hades ap buff? And perhaps some other stuff

[TheUnshakableOne]

Thanatos is an unquantifiable number of Universes above baseline 2-C

he scales from 2-C feats yes, but those feats don't have a quantifiable way of scaling except from Hades. So it would be like Hades is 100x himself as hasty said.

This is to say basically all the 2-C's either upscale or downscale from Hades in some way or form which makes Multipliers very difficult to work with. [This is probably phrased terribly but im teried from work lol]

The other problem is this won't necessarily bring about a 2-B rating. The distance between Universes on the wiki is treated as unknown so it would be like "100 million times" 3 Universes but < 4 Universes.

However, I do have an alternative. i was going to make a thread about it myself in the future. I don't don't think there is anything wrong with proposing an alternative.

See me comment here for it

https://vsbattles.com/threads/hades-ap-buff-and-perhaps-some-other-stuff.130775/post-4455564

Also, the 8th prison Cocytus is stated to be Infinite in Size by narration

Which should also support them being separate Spacetime Continuums.

Dohko also says you could will get BFR'ed to some other "Dimension" if they were to enter the "Super Dimensional space." For further supporting evidence. So we have the 6th prison being stated to be a full on Spacetime Continuum, cocytus being stated to be infinite in size, and their all being referenced as "Dimension" by Dohko.

 

[StekFence]

he scales from 2-C feats yes, but those feats don't have a quantifiable way of scaling except from Hades. So it would be like Hades is 100x himself as hasty said

I thought thanatos was 2-C for destroying the shields that tanked a blow from pontos

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I thought thanatos was 2-C for destroying the shields that tanked a blow from pontos

How many universes into 2-C is Pontos?

 

[StekFence]

How many universes into 2-C is Pontos?

He’s rated as 2-C via being “Even the absolute weakest Titan can create a universe and all it encompasses from nothing, with little effort. Pontos himself is far more powerful than any Titan with the exception of Cronus, including immensely powerful Titans such as Coeus and Hyperion, viewing them as nothing but pawns under his control”

 

[StekFence]

I’m not too familiar with ep G scaling so dunno

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

ouch.. thats gonna need some work later.. that description is a bit vague and doesn't really justify 2-C very well..

before establishing a multiplier for the comet first lets establish how many universes Hades has. it'll make the multiplier easier to numerate.

 

[StekFence]

ouch.. thats gonna need some work later.. that description is a bit vague and doesn't really justify 2-C very well..

before establishing a multiplier for the comet first lets establish how many universes Hades has. it'll make the multiplier easier to numerate.

Sounds reasonable

 

[StekFence]

The 26 universes does make sense. The 25 places of hell, multiple of which are established to be universes, then elysium is the last?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The 26 universes does make sense. The 25 places of hell, multiple of which are established to be universes, then elysium is the last?

Yes elysium would be the last

 

[StekFence]

Kk

 

[StekFence]

Since pontos profile basically explains nothing, I just assumed he was baseline

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Since pontos profile basically explains nothing, I just assumed he was baseline

the titans in G were in a weakened state fro the start. So cappign them at Universal in G is fair but their mythological selves were probably much stronger. We have yet to see a pontos go all out and use all his power and we lack context on who he is stronger than compared to the olympians.

but we can probably debate him another time.

Hades is more so the crux of this CRT

 

[StekFence]

Right. So basically, the idea here was god cloth seiya = low multi, so comet fist should be 100x at worst, or at least 100,000,000x at best. this is where I’d get 100 mill x baseline hades from, which would scale to his ap through athena, and then some others. Hades supporting 26 unis would be a good alternative rating tho.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Right. So basically, the idea here was god cloth seiya = low multi, so comet fist should be 100x at worst, or at least 100,000,000x at best. this is where I’d get 100 mill x baseline hades from, which would scale to his ap through athena, and then some others. Hades supporting 26 unis would be a good alternative rating tho.

26 Universes and then a 100x multiplier. Yes, it might be a lowball but its the safest low end to go with since it has a direct statement imo.

becuase eventually infinite speed and immeasurable speed upgrades will happen in the future soo...

 

[My_area]

I dont really understand the counter arguments, it being "too high" doesn't really work when we are talking about characters in 2-C scale, where any finite number multiplier would pale in comparison, its definitely not "too high", in fact its a lowball because here, its assuming that god cloth Seiya can attack as fast as gold saints when that obviously doesn't work since god cloth Seiya is much faster, since he scales above a god who blitzed gold cloth users.

The point of "there isn't sufficient evidence" doesn't make sense either, its clear and simple. Pegasus comet fist works by combining all meteor punches into one for a increase in strength, thats why Seiya comet fist against Misty had 100 times multiplier, because it combined all 100 fists of Seiya's punches into one giving 100 times multiplier, this is even accepted in the wiki, and basically is a justification for Silver Saints being Small Country level, so if Seiya could do 100 punches per second at mach 1 speed, then he can do 100 million punches per second at speed of light due to Aioria and Odyesseus statement, so if he can do 100 million punches per second in light speed that means the comet fist would involve concentration of all 100 million punches into one, then his comet fist should have 100 million times multiplier. To say its not enough evidence is to say that there is no sufficient evidence that Seiya's comet fist combines 100 of meteor fist, which would lead to downgrade to most of silver saints and anyone that scaled to Seiya's comet fist.

Also I dont see where the 2-B argument is coming from, this thread is simply proposing that Hades durability to be 100 millions times above god cloth Seiya, so anyone who harms Hades like Athena or Peak god cloth Seiya would scale. Simply being 100 millions times stronger than 2-C, is definitely not 2-B but rather just 100 millions times into whatever 2-C they are in, as crossing any sub tiers of tier 2 is not possible with a multiplier.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Simply being 100 millions times stronger than 2-C, is definitely not 2-B but rather just 100 millions times into whatever 2-C they are in, as crossing any sub tiers of 2-C is not possible with a multiplier.

This is something on the wiki that has always confused me

Somehow 100million times above 26 Universes is still < 27 Universes by a LARGE amount.

This logic in confusing....

 

[Hasty12345]

What I was always confused about was how the space between universes is 5D, and we can't use multipliers to jump in tier 2 due to the fact destroying the 5D space is unquantifiable.

So why does low 1-C exist if tier 2 characters are already destroying 5D space?

 

[My_area]

This is something on the wiki that has always confused me

Somehow 100million times above 26 Universes is still < 27 Universes by a LARGE amount.

This logic in confusing....

The logic is basically that we dont know the distance of the space between the universes, like how large they are, so while we know that 2 universes is 2 times the quantity of 1 universe, we don't know the gap between the universes so which is why its unquantifiable. Since we dont know the size of space between the universes, which is why we just have to assume that space is unquantifiable in size hence no amount of multiplier is really treated as enough to cross from 1 universe to another. Thats why its like that. It will likely remain that way unless we somehow find a way to measure the distance of space between universes or find better solutions to quantify the gap.

If explained into easier example, its like why Multi Solar System isn't just 2 times Solar System, because it not only accounts for amount of solar systems but the distance between our solar system and closest solar system, same with why multi galaxy isn't just 2 times galaxy level, because of distance between Milky Way and the nearest galaxy being considered along with number of galaxies, only difference is that unlike these 2 examples where gap between our solar system/galaxy and nearest solar system/galaxy is measurable, there is no way to measure the distance between 2 universes hence 2 universes is unquantifiable times 1 universe(taken as bigger than infinity I believe here)

I hope the reasoning doesn't confuse you anymore with that simple explanation.

What I was always confused about was how the space between universes is 5D, and we can't use multipliers to jump in tier 2 due to the fact destroying the 5D space is unquantifiable.

So why does low 1-C exist if tier 2 characters are already destroying 5D space?

I believe its because the wiki considers universes as being aligned along the 5th dimensional axis, not that they are separated by 5th dimensional space, so meaning destroying universes doesn't have to affect 5th dimensional axis in anyway, just cross the space in between the universes. Either way 5D space wont be Low 1-C unless its shows reallty-fiction difference or greater than infinity difference and all.

 

[My_area]

Okay never mind, I checked and its assumed that universes are seperated between 5th dimension or 4th spatial dimension in any case as written by speed page

"Speed isn't defined by any number of spatial dimensions but simply distance over time. Meaning that it is possible for 1-dimensional characters to be faster than those who cover many dimensions. And the distance between two timelines is defined as the 5th dimension (Or a 4th spatial dimension) that separates two or more universes. Said distance is often unknown as it could be anywhere between much smaller than the Universal radius and infinite. But such details are only known to those who can travel through additional spatial dimensions. For that reason, crossing Universes is unquantifiable for speed unless details are specifically stated."

Then why it wouldn't be Low 1-C is because of what I said in the end

Either way 5D space wont be Low 1-C unless its shows reallty-fiction difference or greater than infinity difference and all.

 

[Hasty12345]

Thanks for the explanation

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

This is something on the wiki that has always confused me

Somehow 100million times above 26 Universes is still < 27 Universes by a LARGE amount.

This logic in confusing....

So, what exactly is wrong with my argument for hades being 100mill times Seiyas ap? Or do you agree, cos I saw you agreed with hasty, who was disagreeing, but is now neutral

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

So, what exactly is wrong with my argument for hades being 100mill times Seiyas ap? Or do you agree, cos I saw you agreed with hasty, who was disagreeing, but is now neutral

I thought some people were thinking it would reach into 2-B

tbh it just sounds weird being 100million times above 26 universes but below 27 universes

anyways we should write a summary and contact staff again.

 

[StekFence]

Ok.

 

[StekFence]

Summary: Hades tanked a attack from God cloth seiya, the specific technique that seiya used, takes the amount of punches that seiya can perform in a second, and uses That as a multiplier for one punch. Thus, when seiya could punch 100 times a second, this technique had a multiplier of 100x. 7th sense seiya scales in speed to beings who can punch 100 million times a second. Thus, 7th sense seiya would have a 100 million times multiplier for his technique.

 

[StekFence]

God Cloth seiya is much faster than 7th sense seiya, and so his multiplier should be At Least 100 million. Because Hades tanked this attack with no damage, and is consistently far above god cloth seiya in stats, This should Give Hades a durability of at Least 100 million times God cloths Seiyas Ap, which is Low multiversal.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This summary is suggesting hades is 100milliom times above 3 universes but still below 4 universes

Summary: Hades tanked a attack from God cloth seiya, the specific technique that seiya used, takes the amount of punches that seiya can perform in a second, and uses That as a multiplier for one punch. Thus, when seiya could punch 100 times a second, this technique had a multiplier of 100x. 7th sense seiya scales in speed to beings who can punch 100 million times a second. Thus, 7th sense seiya would have a 100 million times multiplier for his technique.

 

[StekFence]

I thought some people were thinking it would reach into 2-B

tbh it just sounds weird being 100million times above 26 universes but below 27 universes

anyways we should write a summary and contact staff again.

Is this summary ok?

 

[StekFence]

Any specific staff I should contact? Cos otherwise I’ll just go with whoever’s online

 

[Hasty12345]

honestly, this thread can probably be closed. It does not serve to change anything on the profiles.

the stuff about upgrading Hades to a higher level of 2-C needs it's own thread.

 

[StekFence]

It was basically mostly about hades on my eyes

 

[StekFence]

Plus, this would actually make seiya 3-B to low 2-C with comet fist for his 7th sense key

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Pumb

 

[StekFence]

Barely knowing the verse, Hasty makes sense to me. The multiplier stuff also seems... Somewhat Sus. 100 million is a gigantic multiplier.

yyyeaaah, with the sheer size of the multiplier I don't think the evidence is sufficient, sorry

Well, I got Unshakes support now, plus I summarized the arguments better. Would you guys mind another look to see if changed your minds?

Summary: Hades tanked a attack from God cloth seiya, the specific technique that seiya used, takes the amount of punches that seiya can perform in a second, and uses That as a multiplier for one punch. Thus, when seiya could punch 100 times a second, this technique had a multiplier of 100x. 7th sense seiya scales in speed to beings who can punch 100 million times a second. Thus, 7th sense seiya would have a 100 million times multiplier for his technique.

this is the beginning of the summary.

 

[My_area]

I am fine with proposed change, it wouldn't change anything but just bump Hades higher in scaling chain and fix the concept of comet fist in the profiles.

 

[Armorchompy]

neutral

 

[StekFence]

Bump

 

[StekFence]

Bump