ben10(omnitrix) Immeasurable speed downgrade

[Greenshifter]

What Deagon mentioned is different from creating an infinite universe. I think the analogy kind of falls flat when transcending or moving through a temporal dimension is what makes the feat impressive and the instantaneous part is just a consequence of being able to do that.

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

I support infinite speed but I think immeasurable speed is a mistake

Infinite was because of universe's 3-A size (now it's similar thing but it's immesurable due to Cosmology's size being based on multiple temporal dimensions)

 

[Quintessence_PE]

(now it's similar thing but it's immesurable due to Cosmology's size being based on multiple temporal dimensions)

Yes, I am aware of that and I am saying that the speed of the explosion that created it is not immeasurable.

 

[Huesito88]

Infinite was because of universe's 3-A size (now it's similar thing but it's immesurable due to Cosmology's size being based on multiple temporal dimensions)

First it was calculated at mftl+ speed then it was infinite after it was brought up by someone that the Universe is infinite in Ben 10, then someone brought up it wasn't just a physical Big Bang, but also a "Big Bang that created it's cosmology and also created it's timelines" and well here we are now.

 

[Reiner04]

Well, I don't generally agree with "bigbang not having speed" argument of Ultima. Given that no fiction treats it as such.

I can see not finding creation or destruction of multiple temporal dimensions via explosion in fiction may not strongly or was meant to be shown as immeasurable speed thing. But I think the case is same with most fiction, we just don't resort to intent of author unless evidence of that intent playing a role. But that's just agreeing to disagreeing with interpretation and that's fine. As such it's OK ig.

We can wait for Ultima to clarify 1st point or just go for voting on 2nd point for which interpretation should be used. I'm not that big fan of Immeasurable speed so I'm fine with any result.

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

Yes, I am aware of that and I am saying that the speed of the explosion that created it is not immeasurable.

Then what's the reason that infinite speed (3-A universe) is logical but immesurable speed (same universe but with multiple temporal dimensions) isn't?
Isn't it self contradictory?

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Then what's the reason that infinite speed (3-A universe) is logical but immesurable speed (same universe but with multiple temporal dimensions) isn't?
Isn't it self contradictory?

I have explained this many times and if you read my comments you will understand this.

 

[Hellformer]

Then what's the reason that infinite speed (3-A universe) is logical but immesurable speed (same universe but with multiple temporal dimensions) isn't?
Isn't it self contradictory?

Nuh uh > Your argument

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Nuh uh > Your argument

I have explained clearly enough many times why it should downgrade, you will not achieve anything by talking like this.
If you want to make empty comments, don't do it here, get out of here

 

[Deagonx]

Nuh uh > Your argument

Future comments like this are going to be deleted.

 

[Lou_change]

So I am looking at the Big Bang page and it seems weird it says creating a 4d structure one of types of feats consisted low 2-C is not low 2-C because it didn't create the entirety of the 4d structure/space time continuum. It still created a 4d structure.
Anyway it says nothing about speed suggesting big bangs not having speed isn't an official standard.

 

[Reiner04]

So I am looking at the Big Bang page and it seems weird it says creating a 4d structure one of types of feats consisted low 2-C is not low 2-C because it didn't create the entirety of the 4d structure/space time continuum. It still created a 4d structure.
Anyway it says nothing about speed suggesting big bangs not having speed isn't an official standard.

Yeah, it was in recent crt. Hax type Bigbangs aren't AP.

 

[ByArrow]

I changed my mind after @Reiner04 and @Firestorm808's comments.

Now I disagree with the OP

 

[Reiner04]

So I believe we have 3 cases split in staff opinions.

1. Immeasurable speed due to creating all of tineline and hypertimeline: @Firestorm808
2. Current justification should be removed but finds Current rating fine due to hypertimeline: @Mr. Bambu (overall agree with downgrade ig?)
3. Bigbang shouldn't have speed and iffy since don't think destruction or creation of hypertimeline shouldn't default to crossing temporal dimensions: @Deagonx (Agree with downgrade)

I agree with the downgrade, the rating is fine for different reasons and should be listed as such, I reckon. I haven't read the back discussion though, so I may switch: for now, as long as my position is known, all is well.

What is ur opinion on 3rd point brought by @Deagonx ?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So I believe we have 3 cases split in staff opinions.

1. Immeasurable speed due to creating all of tineline and hypertimeline: @Firestorm808
2. Current justification should be removed but finds Current rating fine due to hypertimeline: @Mr. Bambu (overall agree with downgrade ig?)
3. Bigbang shouldn't have speed and iffy since don't think destruction or creation of hypertimeline shouldn't default to crossing temporal dimensions: @Deagonx (Agree with downgrade)

What is ur opinion on 3rd point brought by @Deagonx ?

To be clear, I agree with Deagon that the case presented by the OP is very strange. But if they have feats currently accepted as "possibly" that would net Immeasurable anyways, I'm happy to leave it at "possibly" since the OP only tackles the for-sure rating.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

To be clear, I agree with Deagon that the case presented by the OP is very strange. But if they have feats currently accepted as "possibly" that would net Immeasurable anyways, I'm happy to leave it at "possibly" since the OP only tackles the for-sure rating.

What we are talking about now is the only accepted issue.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I was told that the currently accepted thing is that there are multiple temporal dimensions that these characters are moving through at once- or, rather, that they react to something that does. Is this not correct?

 

[Reiner04]

I was told that the currently accepted thing is that there are multiple temporal dimensions that these characters are moving through at once- or, rather, that they react to something that does. Is this not correct?

There are multiple temporal dimensions that this bigbang explosion creates as it expands to entire cosmology and omnitrix which previously had infinite reaction speed, now have immeasurable speed due to this, which this thread is tackling with. Yes. Why are we talking like this.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I was told that the currently accepted thing is that there are multiple temporal dimensions that these characters are moving through at once- or, rather, that they react to something that does. Is this not correct?

If you haven't already, its best you read the CRT where Immesurable Speed got accepted in the first place

 

[Quintessence_PE]

I was told that the currently accepted thing is that there are multiple temporal dimensions that these characters are moving through at once- or, rather, that they react to something that does. Is this not correct?

The fact that the Omnitrix is reacting to this explosion, a big bang that created space-time, should not imply immeasurable speed. It does not matter whether this explosion created a hypertimeline or whether it was high-dimensional, because regardless of these dimensions, it represents a feat of creation and cannot be considered as having occurred faster than time. Additionally, there are other aspects of this scene that do not make sense and contribute to its overall incoherence.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

I was told that the currently accepted thing is that there are multiple temporal dimensions that these characters are moving through at once- or, rather, that they react to something that does. Is this not correct?

They have this speed because they are reacting to the bigbang, not travelling at pure speed between time dimensions.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

They have this speed because they are reacting to the bigbang, not travelling at pure speed between time dimensions.

Since when reaction speed isn't "pure speed"

 

[Reiner04]

Just so u know, Ben 10 bigbang is not accepted as creation hax here but an energy wave.. that's the reason it scales to AP and AX durability. @ProfessorKukui4Life kukui downgrade thread was rejected about it being a creation hax. @Firestorm808 can confirm,

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Since when reaction speed isn't "pure speed"

This is not the case, I think you are replying without reading what I wrote.

The fact that the Omnitrix is reacting to this explosion, a big bang that created space-time, should not imply immeasurable speed. It does not matter whether this explosion created a hypertimeline or whether it was high-dimensional, because regardless of these dimensions, it represents a feat of creation and cannot be considered as having occurred faster than time. Additionally, there are other aspects of this scene that do not make sense and contribute to its overall incoherence.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Just so u know, Ben 10 bigbang is not accepted as creation hax here but an energy wave.. that's the reason it scales to AP and AX durability. @ProfessorKukui4Life kukui downgrade thread was rejected about it being a creation hax. @Firestorm808 can confirm,

COUGH COUGH @Quintessence_PE

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Just so u know, Ben 10 bigbang is not accepted as creation hax here but an energy wave.. that's the reason it scales to AP and AX durability. @ProfessorKukui4Life kukui downgrade thread was rejected about it being a creation hax. @Firestorm808 can confirm,

This does not change anything and we have already talked about this many times.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This is not the case, I think you are replying without reading what I wrote.

Im am not blind

They have this speed because they are reacting to the bigbang, not travelling at pure speed between time dimensions.

Right, they are teleporting to avoid the Big Bang🗣

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Right, they are teleporting to avoid the Big Bang🗣

You are talking without understanding, I am explaining that this explosion did not take place at an immeasurable speed, you do not understand this and you are talking nonsense.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This does not change anything and we have already talked about this many times.

This goes against the main point of the entire CRT, which was:

The fact that the Omnitrix is reacting to this explosion, a big bang that created space-time, should not imply immeasurable speed. It does not matter whether this explosion created a hypertimeline or whether it was high-dimensional, because regardless of these dimensions, it represents a feat of creation and cannot be considered as having occurred faster than time. Additionally, there are other aspects of this scene that do not make sense and contribute to its overall incoherence.

 

[Reiner04]

This does not change anything and we have already talked about this many times.

At this point I'm really not sure what you're talking about.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You are talking without understanding, I am explaining that this explosion did not take place at an immeasurable speed, you do not understand this and you are talking nonsense.

Waiting for an explanation of how Reaction to something ≠ "Pure Speed"

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Waiting for an explanation of how Reaction to something ≠ "Pure Speed"

brother you really don't know how to read, the issue here is not the reaction rate, the issue here is that this explosion is not at an immeasurable speed

 

[Reiner04]

brother you really don't know how to read, the issue here is not the reaction rate, the issue here is that this explosion is not at an immeasurable speed

.... I, okay.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

brother you really don't know how to read, the issue here is not the reaction rate, the issue here is that this explosion is not at an immeasurable speed

May I remind you what you wrote earlier:

They have this speed because they are reacting to the bigbang, not travelling at pure speed between time dimensions.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

May I remind you what you wrote earlier:

I'm writing this because the bigbang is not immeasurable speed.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I'm writing this because the bigbang is not immeasurable speed.

And Im asking you again to explain your reasoning of how Reacting to something isn't "PURE SPEED"

 

[Quintessence_PE]

And Im asking you again to explain your reasoning of how Reacting to something isn't "PURE SPEED"

I have made no such claim, and if you continue to attack me, I will stop using a pleasant tone. Stop telling me things I didn't say as if I said them.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I have made no such claim, and if you continue to attack me, I will stop using a pleasant tone. Stop telling me things I didn't say as if I said them.

You just did right here:

They have this speed because they are reacting to the bigbang, not travelling at pure speed between time dimensions.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

The reason why Immeasurable Speed is given is because the omnitrix was working before the multiverse was created. The fact that this explosion creates time does not mean that the explosion is faster than the time continuum. This is a simple creation of spacetime, and basically the explosion's creation of all spacetime and the multiverse is just a range achievement.
As i said above, since these feats are not immeasurable speed, this reaction speed shouldn't be immeasurable speed and it should be removed.

update:The fact that the Omnitrix is reacting to this explosion, a big bang that created space-time, should not imply immeasurable speed. It does not matter whether this explosion created a hypertimeline or whether it was high-dimensional, because regardless of these dimensions, it represents a feat of creation and cannot be considered as having occurred faster than time. Additionally, there are other aspects of this scene that do not make sense and contribute to its overall incoherence.

You just did right here:

I've already explained it to you, I wrote it down because I'm explaining that the explosion is not immeasurably fast. Stop talking about it.

I'm writing this because the bigbang is not immeasurable speed.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I've already explained it to you, I wrote it down because I'm explaining that the explosion is not immeasurably fast. Stop talking about it.

Wasn't the Big Bang litterally refused as a Creation feat before like @Reiner04 said, but accepted as an energy wave? That goes against the entire argument of the CRT.
Also how would you explain Ben dodging the attack which has already been struck, which btw, fills the Immesurable speed requirements

Immeasurable speed characters are far beyond even those Infinite speed characters listed above. They perceive infinite speed characters as completely frozen, and they can travel forward and backward in time at will. They have the speed necessary to hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time, and anywhere in between as casually as a human being can roll their eyes left or right. This also means their reaction time is faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struck, and they can strike someone even before they launched an attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed.