It's fine. I only want to make sure he have all the context, so he can give his official input offsite. It obviously won't be counted because of what deagonx said but we atleast be able to proceed with the insight. I highly doubt that speed is not applicable in this case unlike irl or/ general.
As per Ultima, there's no such thing as speed for bigbang to begin with.
ultima gave an answer to this
Not even Infinite or MFTL+?
Well yeah. That's what he said.
Because big bang also takes place in an empty void right ?
Immobile big bang
The best would be to wait for Firestorm. I've stopped arguing over this because it's just their arguments are going circular.
To clarify, what scenario did you describe to Ultima? Just calling it a big bang is an insufficient description of the context we are dealing with.
Reiner and I told him what happened, and he passed it on to Ultima.
I quoted this description from Reiner04:
We are assigning speed to the energy wave that creates and traverses across the entire hypertimeline structure. Is there an issue with this?
The argument is basically something like “the wave is faster than something within the wave trying to follow it”, with the thing within the wave having immeasurable speed due to freely moving across time.
Can you rephrase? The verbs after "energy wave" are confusing me given how the sentence starts.
What is trying to follow the wave? Wouldn't the boundary of the wave just literally be the actual boundary of creation?
destroying or creating the hypertimeline will not give it immeasurable speed.
Destroying very likely would due moving across the 2nd temporal dimension if nothing else, but it doing so is not currently accepted.
They refer to the energy emitted during the Big Bang as having immeasurable speed because it creates a hypertimeline, but...
Moving across Hypertimeline is one of most straightforward examples, tho. But the issue here seems to be fundamentally different so I'd suggest that we get that Clarified first.
The energy more towards the center of it.
The energy wave creates each part of the hyper-timeline structure as it goes on. Let's say the energy wave creates Temporal Dimension X. The energy wave would need to move past and across Temporal Dimension X to create Temporal Dimension X+1. The process continues for every other new Temporal Dimension made.
Against the power of nuh uh
Issue seems to be that Ultima don't think bigbang should have any kind of speed. but since ben 10 is not strict with how timeless voids works idt that's the case apply to it.
So are you nutral or agreeing?
that was a pretty good explanation
Once it is decided whether what I say here is right or what you say is right, this issue can end.
This is a completely different issue from what you are saying and there is a lot of evidence for immeasurable speed in the dbh series
Our reasoning isn't that "moves in void = immeasurable" it's that "moves across many temporal dimensions = immeasurable"
Iirc the Big Bang in Ben 10 was infinite speed before this for exactly that reason.
If you do the inverse context and destroy across many temporal dimensions, is immeasurable speed not applicable? You would destroy Temporal Dimension X, then X+1, and so on?
They do but we differentiate bigbang of pure creation hax (wishing it in existence) and explosion. If former then just range. If later then speed.
I support infinite speed but I think immeasurable speed is a mistake
I would not generally visualize the destruction of a dimension as "traversing" the dimension by default. I think part of the issue is that these concepts are entirely fictional, we do not have a real-world referent for how the "process" of destroying a dimension would work so any explanation we come up with -- however plausible -- would need to be regarded as a personal theory unless the verse makes it clear that this is how it works.
