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Turkish moment
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ben10(omnitrix) Immeasurable speed downgrade
- Thread starter Quintessence_PE
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Moving across Timeline vs 3 dimension with sheer speed.
Welp, agree to disagree.
Link to thread please.
Georredannea15
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That's what I was trying to tell Reiner
Yes. I said that speed has nothing to do with higher dimensionality or anything like that and basically it can be done with the timeline, but that's not the case here
Georredannea15
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Aolphl
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Huh
Speed
Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Lou_change
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What does that mean? It literally creates the future it's not waiting for the future to happen us who are bound by the flow of time. That said does anyone one know if personal timelines a thing or do any timelines loop in on themselves
The explosion created space by expanding as per my understanding presumably it created time by expanding as well how is expanding space comparable to moving through space but expanding time not equal to moving through time
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Nvm. I read one just now, it seems Zeno Erasure being treated as just temporal AoE which won't be a speed feat. Same as AX sending galaxies to timeline. If it wasn't argued as range EE (wishing) or temporal hax which is non expanding stuff then it would have been a different case. U can erase whole earth in one go by wishing is different than u erased earth from one point to other. In former case it is range, in later it is speed.
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Travel to the end of an infinite space in a finite amount of time is infinite speed, there is no logic for why it would be higher
Zeno Immeasurable Attack Speed Upgrade
This is a self-evident but major upgrade, based on the attack speed of Zeno's erasure. JUSTIFICATION Zamasu started growing in Future Trunks' timeline and spread to the main cast's timeline in the present, a fact acknowledged in his profile Zeno's attack originated in the future and the same...
It is creating time via an explosion, not going from the past to the future via sheer speed
Fr, the "bounded by the flow of time" part of the immeasurable speed definition causes a mess in discussion
If you move through space, you will still be in the same moment in time
If you move through time, you will end in another point in time
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Certainly the reason lies in points of disagreement.
I read it. Just what I said previously, hax ≠ speed. Wishing for earth to go and earth will be just Disappear is range, unlike destroying it with explosion.Zeno Immeasurable Attack Speed Upgrade
This is a self-evident but major upgrade, based on the attack speed of Zeno's erasure. JUSTIFICATION Zamasu started growing in Future Trunks' timeline and spread to the main cast's timeline in the present, a fact acknowledged in his profile Zeno's attack originated in the future and the same...vsbattles.com
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Fair enough, still doesn´t explains immeasurable speed though
Lou_change
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Yeah that's what I'm arguing it is expanding into the future it also stays in the past because it is expanding. If I inflate a balloon and have the air inside it count as part of the balloon the balloon moves into more space and still exists where it was previously.Travel to the end of an infinite space in a finite amount of time is infinite speed, there is no logic for why it would be higher
Zeno Immeasurable Attack Speed Upgrade
This is a self-evident but major upgrade, based on the attack speed of Zeno's erasure. JUSTIFICATION Zamasu started growing in Future Trunks' timeline and spread to the main cast's timeline in the present, a fact acknowledged in his profile Zeno's attack originated in the future and the same...
It is creating time via an explosion, not going from the past to the future via sheer speed
Fr, the "bounded by the flow of time" part of the immeasurable speed definition causes a mess in discussion
If you move through space, you will still be in the same moment in time
If you move through time, you will end in another point in time
At least that is my understanding
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Hoping into end of time starting from beginning by virtue of expanding/travelling.
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The thing is: It doesn´t goes back and forwards in time, it just infinitely expands, the fact that the big bang is higher dimensional nulifies it necessairly needing to travel through multiple points in time
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Just the Omnitrix's "Safety Protocol reaction/transformation speed" and Alien X via scaling it's speed above such technology
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I guess my hang-up @Firestorm808 is that, regardless of how we'd characterize their movement in this timeless space, wouldn't we generally assume their movement is normal when they are in a spacetime continuum?
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Bambu changed his vote to Agreeing with possibly immeasurable.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Super Moderator
Administrator
Calculation Group
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I agree with the downgrade, the rating is fine for different reasons and should be listed as such, I reckon. I haven't read the back discussion though, so I may switch: for now, as long as my position is known, all is well.
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To reiterate, we're discussing the "speed" of the energy wave that spans and creates the entire higher dimensional hypertimeline structure (past, present, future, etc.).
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Why does Alien X scale to it? Sorry, I'm out of the loop, but someone asked me to this thread so I am trying to assist.
Hellformer
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Scales above the technology of his verse
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This description is insufficient.
Hellformer
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I mean Omnitrix can react to the creation and alien x shouldn't be inferior to the tech or else it would make no sense for God tier beings slower than tech
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@Firestorm808 Can you translate this
Apollonir.Scale
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Just because Alien X>Ben10 Technology does not mean that Alien It may be superior to Omnitrix in terms of AP, but this does not mean that it will also be superior in speed. There are many examples of this on the wiki.
Hellformer
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That has been discussed in previous CRT so please refer that
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So u mean that u agree with the immeasurable rating for the the different reason but think current description should be changed?
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Alien X scales above every AP and speed feat in the verse, due to being omnipotent species. But I believe this thread is about rather Annihilarrgh and rating itself than scaling chain.
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The current discussion is regarding the speed of the energy wave itself.
I thought we would be talking about scaling later, but am I to take it that you agree with the original feat being immeasurable but disagree with the current scaling justifications?
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Well, I guess I'm just not intimated with the state of the discussion. I would agree broadly speaking that -- literally -- in the absence of time the "speed" of something cannot be measured and as such it is immeasurable. However as I watched the video, the energy wave moves in a manner that is comparable to the individuals around it, who -- although they are also in a timeless void -- are measured by way of their movements in a normal universe.
So, there's some friction here. On a meta level I'd just assume the writers did not concern themselves with it, the suspension of disbelief is pretty much mandatory for these sorts of things.
On the other hand, our speed page defines immeasurable speed as essentially being able to freely choose your location in both space and time. It seems strange to conclude that from this scene, but perhaps I just don't fully understand the reasoning.
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Ben even existing there for even any sort of miniscule time is an outlier since he can't survive being close to bigbang (PIS). We only take Omnitrix reacting to bigbang and feedback survival and absorbing it as legit since that's important to lore.
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What do you mean by "broadly speaking"?
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Overall, it's a Hypertimeline structure. The higher-dimensional energy wave simultaneously created and traversed infinite upon infinite standard timelines and hyper-timeline temporal dimension layers (past, present, future, etc.).
Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed.
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The issue here is that the Omnitrix is reacting to this explosion, a bigbang that created space-time. It doesn't matter how many time dimensions this explosion creates, because no matter how many time dimensions, it is a feat of creation and we cannot treat it as a standard immeasurable speed, there is no evidence that it happens faster than time. There is nothing extra about this explosion except that it creates a hyper timeline, which is not related to immeasurable speed because it shouldn't matter how many time dimensions there are. Apart from that, there are other things that don't make sense in this scene, so it doesn't seem coherent at all.
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Also casually moving forward in 2 temporal dimensions gives immeasurable speed. Since your speed has to transcend one of them in order to be able to move linearly in the other (which is non-linear compared to the first).
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OMNIVERSAL-KING
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Don't you think that we should make a similar page (or at least a user blog evaluated by staff) for Ben 10?
I guess attempt to downgrade immesurable speed for Alien X and omnitrix won't stop here and they will try it again and again
Hellformer
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Makes sense
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