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Zeno Immeasurable Attack Speed Upgrade

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Jaakor48

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This is a self-evident but major upgrade, based on the attack speed of Zeno's erasure.

JUSTIFICATION​

Zamasu started growing in Future Trunks' timeline and spread to the main cast's timeline in the present, a fact acknowledged in his profile

Zeno's attack originated in the future and the same blast hit him in the past.

Essentially, the blast moved from the future of a timeline to the past of a separate timeline, killing all of Zamasu that was in both time periods

thus, in summary, Zamasu;

Started in the future.
Appeared in the past.
Was sensed in the past.
Was nuked in the past from an attack that originated in the future

My proposal?
Immeasurable attack speed via his erasure due to the attack being capable of crossing time itself



Agree;
Disagree;
Neutral;
 
Dereck03 said:
He just erased the universe that contained a timeline, just a Low 2-C feat, not speed feat at all.
Click to expand...
I guess you haven't been up to date with the dragon ball tier upgrades yet? a DBS timeline is low 1c now firstly
Secondly,his attack from the future also hit zamasu who was in the past, which is the basis for this thread
 
Dereck03 said:
He just erased the universe that contained a timeline, just a Low 2-C feat, not speed feat at all.
Click to expand...
Not really, he deleted a complete timeline, described by the Dragon Ball website itself, and the timeline is accepted as low 1-C

The heroes fought valiantly in an arduous battle, but the immortal Zamasu remained undefeated even after his body was worn down by Vegito's relentless onslaught and rent asunder by a final swing of Trunks' sword. When hope was all but lost, Goku had the idea to call upon the lord of all universes, Zeno, who then erased not only Zamasu but the entirety of Trunks' future timeline from reality. Trunks had lost his home, but with hope in his heart he decided to use the time machine to travel to a new future timeline before Zamasu's terrible plot took place and try once more to create a peaceful world.
Click to expand...
 
Dereck03 said:
Since when erasing a timeline is Immeasurable speed?
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it isn't, his blast time travelling to the past from the future is what is being argued, its specified in the OP
TiltedFN said:
Yeah we don't scale zeno's attack/hax speed, and every time he's shown to use it, it spawns on you directly. Also this is just low 1-C and interdimensional range. It was able to effect zamasu across timelines, and the timeline itself.
Click to expand...
zeno's erasure of the timeline has been accepted as a blast, and even if it wasnt, it went from the future to the past, low1c interdimensiona range does not account for this, that is literally a textbook immeasurable speed feat. Those timelines were in separate times, one in the future, one in the past
 
Jaakor48 said:
it isn't, his blast time travelling to the past from the future is what is being argued, its specified in the OP

zeno's erasure of the timeline has been accepted as a blast, and even if it wasnt, it went from the future to the past, low1c interdimensiona range does not account for this, that is literally a textbook immeasurable speed feat. Those timelines were in separate times, one in the future, one in the past
Click to expand...
His blast has no speed, just range, it's erasure.
 
Jaakor48 said:
it isn't, his blast time travelling to the past from the future is what is being argued, its specified in the OP
Click to expand...
Zamasu was merging with the future and his precense was reaching the past, Zeno erased the timeline and therefore Zamasu in the future and that is why he was destroyed in the past (present) since his being was destroyed in the future, the present per se was never affected.
 
Dereck03 said:
Zamasu was merging with the future and his precense was reaching the past, Zeno erased the timeline and therefore Zamasu in the future and that is why he was destroyed in the past (present) since his being was destroyed in the future, the present per se was never affected.
Click to expand...
no, the "past" he went to, wasn't the past of THAT timeline, it was a distinct one. Future trunks' timeline has a different past which was wiped out by the blast entirely
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
Yeah, Low 1-C range already covers that. Doesn't change much no matter how you twist it.
Click to expand...
:dis:
972798294982012938.png
:RoonPoint:
 
Jaakor48 said:
Zamasu started growing in Future Trunks' timeline and spread to the main cast's timeline in the present, a fact acknowledged in his profile
Click to expand...
Time traveling is what grants immeasurable speed, that means crossing the dimension of time for a single space-time continuum. Traveling between different timelines is dimensional travel, and it doesn’t grant higher speed tiers.

Crossing between Universes and Higher Dimensions​

Speed isn't defined by any number of spatial dimensions but simply distance over time. Meaning that it is possible for 1-dimensional characters to be faster than those who cover many dimensions. And the distance between two timelines is defined as the 5th dimension (Or a 4th spatial dimension) that separates two or more universes. Said distance is often unknown as it could be anywhere between much smaller than the Universal radius and infinite. But such details are only known to those who can travel through additional spatial dimensions. For that reason, crossing Universes is unquantifiable for speed unless details are specifically stated.
Click to expand...
Jaakor48 said:
Zeno's attack originated in the future and the same blast hit him in the past.

Essentially, the blast moved from the future of a timeline to the past of a separate timeline, killing all of Zamasu that was in both time periods

thus, in summary, Zamasu;

Started in the future.
Appeared in the past.
Was sensed in the past.
Was nuked in the past from an attack that originated in the future
Click to expand...
Clever reasoning, but none of this works since we’re talking about different timelines rather than different points in the same space-time.
Jaakor48 said:
Agree;
Disagree;
Neutral;
Click to expand...
Put me in the middle.
 
Jaakor48 said:
yes it does
Click to expand...
As we have seen, his erasure doesn't really travel, its just already there and encompassing whatever zeno erases. It's clearly not speed or portrayed to expand at all. This is literally a perfect example of range and not speed.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
Yeah, Low 1-C range already covers that. Doesn't change much no matter how you twist it.
Click to expand...
low1c is for a single timeline
his blast reached another timeline located in the past seperate from his timeline...if zamasu appeared in future trunks own past, this would just be low 1c, you need time travel to get

ProfectusInfinity said:
Time traveling is what grants immeasurable speed, that means crossing the dimension of time for a single space-time continuum. Traveling between different timelines is dimensional travel, and it doesn’t grant higher speed tiers.
Click to expand...
why would time traveling to a past different from your timeline not be counted? dimensional travel does not allow you travel to your own past, let alone the past of another timeline entirely
ProfectusInfinity said:
Clever reasoning, but none of this works since we’re talking about different timelines rather than different points in the same space-time.
Click to expand...
but we ARE talking about different points in time, this both dimensional and time travel, mind you, zamasu likewise has time travel in his profile for his feat of merging. both future trunks timeline and the main cast present timeline also have different time rings, time travel is the only way to go between them in the show
ProfectusInfinity said:
Put me in the middle.
Click to expand...
ok

TiltedFN said:
As we have seen, his erasure doesn't really travel, its just already there and encompassing whatever zeno erases. It's clearly not speed or portrayed to expand at all. This is literally a perfect example of range and not speed.
Click to expand...
he used 2 versions, one was a charged blast that clearly expanded, the other was a non-travelling erasure, even GoDs have this same distinction, what he dd to the timelines is regarded as a blast, you can make a crt to change it tho
 
Jaakor48 said:
low1c is for a single timeline
his blast reached another timeline located in the past seperate from his timeline...if zamasu appeared in future trunks own past, this would just be low 1c, you need time travel to get
Click to expand...
Yeah, covering two timelines in Dragon Ball would still give you a greater degree of Low 1-C range.

And for the last time, any range starting from tier 2 already covers the temporal aspect.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
Yeah, covering two timelines in Dragon Ball would still give you a greater degree of Low 1-C range.
Click to expand...
not if those two timelines were in different time periods, i throw an attack from the present, it travels to hit the past of another timeline...that's literally a textbook imeasurable speed feat.In this verse, those two structures are not just spatially seperate, they are in different time periods,
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
And for the last time, any range starting from tier 2 already covers the temporal aspect.
Click to expand...
you do realize, simply running back in time in a tier 2 structure gives immeasurable speed right? moving between 2 different points in time via speed is immeasurable

Nullflowerblush said:
This is just the thread to address that, then.
Click to expand...
no, feel free to make your own, do not derail mine


Dereck03 said:
It doesn't matter if it is L1-C or L2-C it is still a range feat.
Click to expand...
another thing you may not have gotten yet, those two timelines arent just different spacetimes in a structure, attacking the past of the future trunks timeline wont affect the past of the current cast's present timeline, they are existing in 2 distinc and seperated time periods, only way to access them in time travel, its not range,

for example, you fire a blast at someone, the attack hits them in the past from your present, thats textbook immeasurable speed
Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed.
Click to expand...
his attack completely ignored the linear progression of time, it went to a disinct past from the future, with just movement
range is for spatial dimensions and "anywhere" not "anywhen"
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
Range. Kids these days always use speed equal anyway.
Click to expand...
sorry for the double pots; I didn't see this

i have no interest in the consequences for versus threads, i am barely active there.

I've just been stewing on this for a while because it seemed to be blatant case of time travelling

is there any range that accounts for an attack starting from the future, and hitting someone in the past? cuz i checked
 
Qawsedf234 said:
DB on the site accepts the timelines as seperate temporal axis. Meaning time travel isn't a factor for this showing.

As with the others this is a range and power feat, but not a speed feat.
Click to expand...
time travel is the only way to access different db timelines, there is np range that allows you to do what zeno did, low 1c range gets you one timeline, going to the past of another one, you need time travel, low 1c range is just a %D space, it does not account for the time travel involved.

so i ask again, what range would be given? because this attack literary crossed time
 
Jaakor48 said:
time travel is the only way to access different db timelines, there is np range that allows you to do what zeno did, low 1c range gets you one timeline, going to the past of another one, you need time travel, low 1c range is just a %D space, it does not account for the time travel involved.

so i ask again, what range would be given? because this attack literary crossed time
Click to expand...
Its already on his profile, low 1-C range and interdimensional, its simple as that.
 
Also, I vote that we take away Zeno's erasure encompassing the multiverse as a justification for his speed, because it doesn't make a lot of sense, especially from what's being argued now.
 
TiltedFN said:
Its already on his profile, low 1-C range and interdimensional, its simple as that.
Click to expand...
this is for destroying a timeline and affecting the universes from his palace, not affecting two different time periods.

Range: Standard Melee Range; Low Complex Multiversal & Interdimensional via Spatial Manipulation, Existence Erasure, and Ki Blasts (Materialized his hand in one of the universes from his palace which is outside of all the universes. Can erase/destroy the entire multiverse, and the overarching timeline.)
Click to expand...

zamasu has time travel in his for growing into the present
Low Complex Multiversal & Interdimensional with Dimensional Travel & Time Travel (Merged with Universe 7 with consists of multiple space-time continuums, later his influence was starting to bleed over into other [5D] timelines)
Click to expand...
which is another reason i made this. Zeno's blast time travelled. He couldnt have hit zamasu any other way in the present
 
TiltedFN said:
Also, I vote that we take away Zeno's erasure encompassing the multiverse as a justification for his speed, because it doesn't make a lot of sense, especially from what's being argued now.
Click to expand...
seeing as it's agreed as a blast, i dont see the point, nor why someone arguing for immeasurable speed because an attack literally time travelled warrants a response, but w/e i suppose


but in any case, if everyone wants this to be range for whatever reason, then inter-temporal range or something might be better, how this differs from immeasurable speed tho, i dont know.

but that attack sure as hell time travelled, not seeing that's even a debate with the scans in the OP
zamasu clearly time travelled with his growth, its even on his profile, scans back it up, zeno's attack killed him from a future and a distinct past
 
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