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Battle of spatial user

1. I just said it had more applications than simply spatial manipulation. And yet again Nulling Spatial Manipulation =/= resistance to spatial manipulation. That's 2 different things.

2. Except my argument isn't based on that? It's only based on Marin's ability. And I personally believe that magic = real should be case-by-case, neither all or none.

3. https://m.imgur.com/a/5f8Vi

Have a good night.
 
Rei Rubro said:
Law can simply uses gamma knife on marin head and destroys your brain.
Click to expand...
How he get close to him? Proof that law alwasy start with gamma knife? Also merin can teleport also marin can bfr him if he use any space manipulation
 
Marin via Rules of the Area and auto BFR.

Any votes based on the argument that FT elements aren't the real thing are invalid. All the examples given as proof of them being fake are the product of the casters changing its properties. Sting's roar isn't light so that doesn't mean jack, Natsu specifically had a flashback to Macao explaining how to make his fire solid, Laxus made a new spell that was far superior to actual lighnting, being red means nothing.

Votes based of the reasoning RotA can only null spatial magic are in the same boat.

To the person who said ROOM affected a 6-C, AP matters against hax when?
 
To explain why votes based off of Marin not being able to null Law wouldn't count, think of how other CRTs are treated. It's not like putting the 6-A Demon King (At the time) against a Low 6-B wouldn't be treated as a stomp match at that moment in time just because there was going to be a CRT to make the Demon King Low 6-B.
 
Rei Rubro said:
Law can simply uses gamma knife on marin head and destroys your brain.
Click to expand...
Not if he can't use ROOM in the 1st place. All of his DF abilities need ROOM.
 
Alright let me address some facts right now that I'm seeing.


1: Fairy Tail Magic is the same as the real element


Debunked argument that no longer holds up, this is never stated in the Manga and comes from an old mistranlation from 2015. Marakov in the official scans never states that Magic is the same thing as the real elements, his statement in the Manga is much more vague and doesn't even imply that to be the case. And given how elemental Magic work in Fairy Tail this would make sense. There's multiple pieces of evidence that even goes against this, such as Laxus being able to generate red lightning, being red automatically disqualify's it as real lightning, has force behind it, can someone be created to turn into lightning and from what I recall can even generate lightning from wood which isn't like real lightning. That fact that he made it doesn't change the fact that it makes the elements in Fairy Tail being legit. People can freeze fire ( Again this doesn't happen in real life. Burn things that aren't supposed to burn ( Vaporizing sand, being able to turn solid, attaching to objects, etc. Different magics can be fuses together somehow and function normally, and I'm positive there a plethora of light magic that bends. ) So if anything this is the argument that's invalid. Never stated in the Manga, originates from a false Manga scan back from 2015, don't behave as real elements, etc. Magic isn't treated as being the same as the real thing, many things go against this notion. There's a few similarly features between Magic and the real thing due to it being based and revolved around that element but it isn't the same nor does it contain all of the natural elements functions. This argument no longer holds and there's nothing to support it.


2: Auto BFR. Again this argument isn't even usable due to multiple reasons.


"Bypassing a resistance to Spatial Manipulation /= Bypassing something that power nulls Spatial Manipulation." Cleary none of you have bothered reading my arguments or the reason why I stated this. Law's spatial manipulation has feats of bypassing something that grants a resistance yes, but if you actually read I also stated that it's worked on people who can negate Devil Fruit abilities with their Busushoko Haki. Busushoko Haki negates the Devil Fruit abilities of Devil Fruit Users. What Haki does is negate the main abilities from a Devil Fruit user, such as Logia intang, Law's spatial manipulation, Luffy's Blunt Force Resistance, and other examples. Haki in verse is used as a method of negate the Devil Fruit users abilities which I've already stated but everyone seems to have ignored that. With that being said Law's Spatial Manipulation has done the following.


  • 1: Been used to negate Resistance to Spatial Manipulation
  • 2:* Has worked on people who are able to negate abilities with their Haki. Prime examples would be Doffy and Vergo during their fight at punk Hazzard.
  • 3: Is much more impressive than anything Marin has been shown to be able to negate. It's bypassed resistance to spatial manipulation and something that's meant to negate the abilities of Devil Fruit users.
  • 4: Makes what Marin has negated look like Fodder. Law's Spatial Manipulation can be used to negate durability, Regenerationn, can swap bodies, generate weapons that can ignore durability, has instantaneous attack speed and ignores the range between his opponents while in ROOM. His spacial slashing is also invisible so Marin wouldn't even be able to notice what's about to happen to him. In the best scenario for him he manages to BFR Law but still gets severed and attached to other objects before Law gets transported away leaving him unable to do anything. This would leave it has inconclusive at best for Marin. Or Law can simply swap bodies with Marin right before he gets removed from the battle filed. Interesting fact, Marin's Rules of Area isn't something that's passive and needs to be activated, Lucy was able to use her Magic again without having it negated whenever she came back from Marin's BFR. So it's something Marin doesn't start out with, he'd need to realize what kind of abilities Law has, and unlike his showing with Erza and Lucy he isn't gonna know what kind of "Magic" Law is using. To which again, he can't null something that's straight up manipulation of space, it needs to be a magic for him to be able to negate it. His profile even states this, let's take a look at his profile and how his abilities are defined shall we?

Spatial Magic (þ®║ÚûôÚ¡öµ│ò Kükan Mahō): Marin is a very adept user of Spatial Magic, which revolves around the manipulation of space. This Magic allows Marin to teleport himself instantaneously to any location he desires. His teleportation is so fast that neither Natsu Dragneel nor Gray Fullbuster were able to actively land a blow on him during their short bout. His Magic also grants him the ability to cancel out any MAGIC relating to space, an ability he used to stop Erza Scarlet's Requip, Lucy Heartfilia's Celestial Spirit Magic, and Mest Gryder's Teleportation Magic.

Spatial Magic Cancelling: He can block MAGIC of any foe if it is related to space-manipulation.


Again all of these states that it's Magic, Erza and Lucy aren't control space or anything remotely similar, they're using Magic that effects space. To a pretty minor degree, Law doesn't use Magic as a first and prime point, his Spatial Manipulation has the better feats and has feats of effecting something that's sole reason is to negate his abilities ( Busushoko Haki. ) and has options even if things go sour, either swapping minds with Marin or simply slashing at him once.


@Dragon


Law's votes are perfectly valid, no need to get rid of them whenever they're based on true information, logical reasons and having overall better feats and being massively above Marin's pay grade. If anything Martin's votes shouldn't count via being based on misinformation and outdated scans, the multiple issues that Marin would have before even attempting to negate Law's hax, such as him needing to know Law is using spacial hax which won't be easy and the fact that Law's Hax has bypasssed something that's meant to negate his ability such as Vergo's and Doffy's Busushoko Haki.
 
There's a difference between debunking someone's argument and debunking the entire verse's power system. Something that major would have to go through a CRT before being able to be applied to a vsthread. Law isn't a logia, it's not like Haki punches negate durability on Doffy's string. Haki just let's you punch logias as far as it's interactions with Devil Fruits go.
 
It's debunking it whenever debunking the power system is the main reasons for the vote. It's pretty simple actually. And no, that's just dishonest. Haki doesn't only allow you to hit a Logia its a hard counter to Devil Fruit power's in verse and is the reason why Law wasn't able to hax Doffy or Vergo. And he still was able to use them at both points with both characters.
 
1997KD said:
It's his magic which allows him to negate spital power, not just spatial magic, then by this logic natsu or ds can't consume the source outside their verse cause there verse use ethernano, while verse like one piece you devil fruit power and ethernanoÔëádf
Click to expand...
That should be the case, tbh. The vast majority of verses doesn't have nothing similar to ethernano on everything.

The fact that Marin can null magic and "real thing" filled with Ethernano makes him unable to null anything that's not magic nor has Ethernano on it.

But don't mind me. At this point I'm thinking on adding a rule about banning FT vs OP because it always leads to flame wars.
 
This doesn't change that fact that you need to make a CRT for it to be applied. You don't need to make a CRT when you're talking about what a character does first or how they use their ability. You do need a CRT when you are talking about abilities the character doesn't have on their profile or are saying that the profile is not explaining their powers correctly. This is more than applies for this case as it effects every character in the verse.

Scans of Haki stopping the spacial manip? If it just worked on Devil Fruit powers in general then Luffy should have been able to hit Prometheus.
 
Again, it really doesn't whenever the information is blatant and clear. The current argument no longer holds due to being based on false scans ergo you can't even use them anymore. Hence why the votes for Marin shouldn't count. I'm still in the middle of typing out The CRT, going over the contents and gathering more scans I'll be able to pump it out in another hour or so. That being said we can either

1: Stop commenting here due to the reasons being invalid and a soon to be finished CRT is gonna be made which will make the arguments here worthless and frankly it's just a waste of time to argue about this whenever it's gonna change.


2: Keep going for whatever reason.


Because Busushoko Haki can only hit you if you have a true body and have elemental intang. Promethus doesn't have either one of those things. This is made evident when Garp hits Luffy's and negated his blunt force resistance.
 
Red lightning exists, sand gets vaporized when fulgurite is formed, the fire only became solid after the user changed its properties (acted just like fire otherwise), light magic was only ever kept stationary around someone's limb or fired as beam (Makarov's beam was straight). None of your examples are of things that don't happen irl. FT elements are still real.

So Law isn't able to hax people with his DF .... but proceeds to hax those same people with his DF? Its either one or the other, not both.
 
1. Okay

2. Okay so we agree that Haki doesn't counter all DF abilities in general. Where does Haki negating Room come from?
 
1. My argument never revolved around this and I even stated this should be a case-by-case basis.

2. And again it's litterally to the point of Resistance. All those times Law is still capable of activating ROOM. You've even pointed out that if it still worked on Vergo, the only example(Not counting Doffy since it was on his non Haki covered limbs.) so

• Doffy didn't have Haki covering his limbs law attacked. Your only example is Vergo.

• That's one example vs Negating Summoning, Barrier Creation, and BFR. From a considerable range I might add.

• Okay Law has versatility, and that makes it less affective how? You don't "lolno" a power null ability via versatility and ap unless it's on a vastly higher scale. You're trying to argue ROOM isn't spatial manipulation when it's litterally creating a spherical space and yet again saying that he'll do something spatial related before getting BFR'd is faulty. Because RoTA negates spatial manipulation. He's not gonna use Shambles, not gonna use Gamma Knife, not gonna use Injection Shot because they won't activate in the 1st place and again it does not need to be magic, Magic is the prime source of energy in Fairy Tail. I.E. Its the primary application of abilities in-verse trying to limit it because of that is extremely faulty.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
law. not only is he seemingly much smarter, he is also seemingly more skilled and versatile
Click to expand...
You should elaborate some more.
Click to expand...
im not a specialist on either verse, but i know has quite a few amount of attacks that dont need him to create room (gama knife comes to mind). he is also quite expirienced in battle, as well as a full on medic. he can easily opperate on himself if need be, just as he can maybe even poison the other guy by using his medical expertise. oh, and his sword. he doesnt really need room to actually win this battle, imo, but thats just me lol
 
Law leads with Room which gets negged immediately and BFR'd right after, he doesn't have the time to do anything else.
 
You should elaborate some more.
im not a specialist on either verse, but i know has quite a few amount of attacks that dont need him to create room (gama knife comes to mind). he is also quite expirienced in battle, as well as a full on medic. he can easily opperate on himself if need be, just as he can maybe even poison the other guy by using his medical expertise. oh, and his sword. he doesnt really need room to actually win this battle, imo, but thats just me lol

All of his abilities require ROOM. Amd he gets BFRd as soon as he attempts to use them
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Red lightning exists, sand gets vaporized when fulgurite is formed, the fire only became solid after the user changed its properties (acted just like fire otherwise), light magic was only ever kept stationary around someone's limb or fired as beam (Makarov's beam was straight). None of your examples are of things that don't happen irl. FT elements are still real.

So Law isn't able to hax people with his DF .... but proceeds to hax those same people with his DF? Its either one or the other, not both.
Click to expand...


Red lightning doesn't exist, not sure where you got that from. His lightning has force behind it , launches people away, can change color and become solid. That's nothing like lightning, Sand can't get vaporized in real life, it's literally impossible. It turns to glass, it doesn't vaporize. There's a few scans of light bending in Fairy Tail I'll pull up the scans. FT Magic isn't the same as real elements, it's a different ability all together. They share some properties yes but they Cleary aren't the same and it's never stated in the Manga. And yes, read One Piece why don't you? If you did you'd know about how Haki works in the verse. I'll also tell you what I did to Dragon, wait till I make the CRT, arguing here is pointless.
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
he can do bfr of course, but whats stopping law from using his room while he is away, out his reach?
Click to expand...
Marin's range, the fact he starts off with it and he wouldn't know RoTA was active.
 
marins spatial magic cancel can only work in a certain range. if he is really bfr'd he would have to be out of range, otheirwise, it wouldnt even be bfr.
 
Lightning turns dark red in the last few meters before it hits the ground. Thunder clouds also have red lightning on top of the cloud layer. Lightning vaporizes the sand around it when it strikes sand, hence how fulgurite is formed. If you are gonna bring up Sting's roar, it isn't light. Every example of light either moves straight when it is being fired or being manipulated to follow a path.
 
and thats stops him from teleporting because?? i should point out the fact that the he only ever imprisoned a teleporter in there after he knocked him out. isnt that weird? quite convinient, i should say, cuz u know, he cant teleport away if he is uncouncious
 
Because its another dimension? Mest was also concsious. Celestial Spirits get banished back to the CS world even if bringing themselves to Earthland under their own power. Also why would RotA not be active within Marin's own bfr dimension?
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
and thats stops him from teleporting because?? i should point out the fact that the he only ever imprisoned a teleporter in there after he knocked him out. isnt that weird? quite convinient, i should say, cuz u know, he cant teleport away if he is uncouncious
Click to expand...
No. He kicked the crap out of Mess after negating his magic (Teleportation is still a type of spatial manipulation.) And summoned him afterwards.
 
thats literally what i said. and if i may say so, for one, DVs arent magic, at all, and for another, what law is simply move himself in his room, which allows him to do anything he wants. as far as i know, as long as he doest not teleport, he could keep room activated the whole time
 
@Lorenzo

No one said DFs are magic. Law cannot come within Marin's range or else he gets BFR'd. Marin also learns the capabilities of the spatial manip as seen with Erza's the Knight. He has never met her before, has no knowledge of her, doesn't know what she called her magic but still knows all about what it does even though using requip for armor swap is unheard of before Erza did it.
 
See that's my issue, especially with this match it's essentially attempting to equalize Devil Fruits to Magic which we can't do since the two are they different. Magic isn't a thing in One Piece, and again I'll bring up the fact that Marin can only negate spacial based magic in the Manga multiple times. What Law uses isn't a Magic, he's manipulation Space itself with his Devil Fruit. As for you AnonymousBlank, your argument doesn't hold. Lightning can appear red and that depends on what's happening with the lightning. Natural lightning isn't red, natural lightning doesn't become solid like how Laxus can use his, natural lightning doesn't send you flying meters away, Lightning doesn't effect wood, etc. Real elements are very different than Magic in Fairy Tail, they share similarities but there are major differences that go against it being real. And lightning can vaporize sand, fire can't which Natsu can do. Ice isn't able to freeze fire either.

As for your Laxus argument read this. http://stormhighway.com/what_color_is_lightning.php Lightning can appear to be red but it's not actually red. There's multiple methods to have this happen, Lightning isn't red by itself.


And again, Marin can't negate Law's spatial manipulation whenever it's massively above what he's been shown to negate, has feats of actually bypassing Haki that stops Devil Fruit abilities from working and the fact that he can only negate spatial based Magic, he can't negate everything that's spatial based and the Manga very specifically states that it negates spatial magic, not the actual manipulation of space which is what he's doing. Law manipulates space itself, not through Magic. There's nothing behind it for Marin to be able to negate .
 
AnonymousBlank said:
@Lorenzo

No one said DFs are magic. Law cannot come within Marin's range or else he gets BFR'd. Marin also learns the capabilities of the spatial manip as seen with Erza's the Knight. He has never met her before, has no knowledge of her, doesn't know what she called her magic but still knows all about what it does even though using requip for armor swap is unheard of before Erza did it.
Click to expand...


I find this hard to believe that Marin knew nothing about Erza whenever he was able to know what magic she uses and how she uses it. Also again, Marin can't negate Law's hax for various reasons. He isn't gonna be able to negate Law's hax, they aren't magic based instead he's manipulating space itself. And his BFR isn't instant, we see that it takes a few seconds. To which Law would either attack him, or swap bodies.
 
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