Battle of ONE's Greatest Espers: Mob vs Tornado

[SuperStar]

Going with Mob due to better hax and versatility.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

What is the vote count?

Right now, it's 7 votes to 4 for Mob, so grace has begun, though it's extremely likely others will come in to cast votes and break the grace.

 

[Unknownnah]

Mob FRA

 

[NikHelton]

Right now, it's 7 votes to 4 for Mob, so grace has begun, though it's extremely likely others will come in to cast votes and break the grace.

Do you need 11 votes for the result?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Imo, @Epiccheev made a much more convincing argument for Tats, but this isn't my battle, so gg.

 

[Cryo123]

AP: Tatsumaki destroyed Psykorochi on a cellular level, who believed herself to be able to fight a character who effortlessly one-shotted the character with the 5 exaton feat.
While Mob was able to casually nuke to oblivion a mob of characters who were overwhelming his 100% form (8 exatons) in one blow. So i'd say they are pretty even, if not a slight advantage for Tatsumaki.

All damage is cellular. That's how taking damage works.

I wouldn't say Orochi thinks he was beaten effortlessly with 1 shot, just beaten in one shot.

Tatsumaki > PsykoOrochi >> Orochi = 5.68 Exatons

Mob >>> casual 8.6 exaton feat. It feels like a stretch to say Tatsumaki scales above a character who themselves scale massively above a value that she scales from. Like we need to give Tats 2x the AP value she scales from to reach that conclusion.

Hax/abilities: Mob takes the edge here with useful skills like energy absorption ( wich effectively makes him unable to run out of psychic power here while depleting Tatsumaki's. And while he can likely absorb attacks equal to his own i don't recall him ever absorbing out of being TKed) and healing (was able to instantly heal a broken arm vs Toichiro )compared to Tatsumaki's slightly better use of basics like TK and Barrier. ???% barely uses copied techniques and his mimicry is more based on powers that intrigue him rather than useful stuff for combat. (This will likely change in a few chapters of Tatsumaki's arc, however. )

He can also reflect attacks, project his soul (which should freak Tats out), create smoke manipulate electricity, plants, and straight up posses people. He wins this category by a massive amount.

Experience/skill: While neither side has real formal training in H2H, Tatsumaki had a way rougher childhood,

You mean the childhood where she purposefully didn't use her powers?

and her fight vs Psykorochi is imo a significantly better fight IQ feat than anything Mob has displayed, as he often focuses on ocerpowering and ending conflict rather than fighting smart like say, Teruki. ???% also has never been in a real fight and therefore it's hard to predict what he'd do against a comparable foe ( considering both can likely measure eachother's powers. )

I have to disagree. Minus a few parlor tricks, she really doesn't do much beyond use her brute strength. She constantly lets her guard down during combat, and she would have died to an inferior opponent had Genos not stepped in. She's cocky and always starts off casual, while Mob is going straight into ???%, so he might literally tear her to shreds in the first 5 seconds.

 

[Planck69]

I'll point out a few things;

Possession is a power that Mob doesn't really ever use in combat though he can and even while Bloodlusted, he seems more likely to open with offensive powers he's seen before that have showcased effectiveness in combat and might mistakenly assume that his soul would be in danger from a comparable esper (even though Tatsumaki can't do this). So, it's not too much of a worry for her, at least for the initial part of their battle.

???% has Mob's memories so he can draw from experiences of fighting comparable enemies and such (Mogami, Toichiro and Serizawa for instance). He has an advantage in this regard, seeing as Tatsumaki hasn't really ever been that pressured to my knowledge, being so far above everyone all the time. And like, he's not a mindless brute. He's just an unsuppressed Mob that's never had an equal. He's not any less inventive or intelligent as Mob, who's fought of comparable opponents multiple times over, even if he was beaten in some cases.

 

[Epiccheev]

All damage is cellular. That's how taking damage works.

I wouldn't say Orochi thinks he was beaten effortlessly with 1 shot, just beaten in one shot.

Tatsumaki > PsykoOrochi >> Orochi = 5.68 Exatons

Mob >>> casual 8.6 exaton feat. It feels like a stretch to say Tatsumaki scales above a character who themselves scale massively above a value that she scales from. Like we need to give Tats 2x the AP value she scales from to reach that conclusion.

Eh, fair

He can also reflect attacks, project his soul (which should freak Tats out), create smoke manipulate electricity, plants, and straight up posses people. He wins this category by a massive amount.

Reflecting attacks won't do much more than TK attacks, projecting his soul in combat is out of character and a terrible move, since it leaves his body defenseless and Mogami said that if his body is destroyed while he's astral projecting not even he knows what would happen to his soul. (plus Tatsumaki can't even see him, but she could likely sense his psychic signature moving around.) Smoke doesn't do much since she can sense him, plants won't be that useful since the fight will likely take place in the sky, possessing people also requires astral project and is massively out of character in a fight.

You mean the childhood where she purposefully didn't use her powers?

She did start after Blast scolded her for it, and has accepted her powers since them, wich is a lot longer than Mob.

I have to disagree. Minus a few parlor tricks, she really doesn't do much beyond use her brute strength. She constantly lets her guard down during combat, and she would have died to an inferior opponent had Genos not stepped in. She's cocky and always starts off casual, while Mob is going straight into ???%, so he might literally tear her to shreds in the first 5 seconds.

Tats can freely control her output, and unlike early Psykorochi fight has 0 reason to hold back. (Specially since she can likely sense how powerful her opponent is just like Fubuki.) I'd still say her fight vs Psykorochi is a better combat IQ feat than anything Mob has shown, as she survived for a long time against a foe that was using a drastically higher amount of power before she could let lose without hurting anyone. (specially since he himself also isn't that free from using more than brute strength,)

 

[Planck69]

Tats can freely control her output, and unlike early Psykorochi fight has 0 reason to hold back. (Specially since she can likely sense how powerful her opponent is just like Fubuki.) I'd still say her fight vs Psykorochi is a better combat IQ feat than anything Mob has shown, as she survived for a long time against a foe that was using a drastically higher amount of power before she could let lose without hurting anyone. (specially since he himself also isn't that free from using more than brute strength,)

Considering Mob's fought scores of ghosts comparable to him in strength and destroyed several of them (albeit being overwhelmed in the end) and survived against a man who's been using his powers and amassing them for longer than the former has been alive, even holding his own when the latter's power surpassed him, long enough for his own strength to catch up, I feel that Mob isn't that far behind.

 

[Recon1511]

It's very even but as Epicchev pointed out Tatsumaki has the speed, range, experience and battle IQ advantage.

Mob only relevant hax advantage here is Absorption, which Tatsumaki should notice and come up with an strategy against it. Also iirc ??? has only absorbed the power of beings considerably weaker than him.

I'm voting Tatsumaki but this battle is a really close one

 

[Planck69]

I will note again that Mob is capable of recalling and using powers he's seen before so if the fight drags on, he'd potentially utilize gravity manipulation, various elemental powers, clone attacks, illusions or even mind control. So while the advantage in hax is small, it could potentially become far larger.

 

[NikHelton]

It's very even but as Epicchev pointed out Tatsumaki has the speed, range, experience and battle IQ advantage.

Mob only relevant hax advantage here is Absorption, which Tatsumaki should notice and come up with an strategy against it. Also iirc ??? has only absorbed the power of beings considerably weaker than him.

I'm voting Tatsumaki but this battle is a really close one

Not sure about the range advantage since they are both capable of sending objects into space and both have a range the size of huge cities.

Also, do not forget that Mob has good regeneration and all his wounds will instantly heal, while Tats' wounds will accumulate.

Plus, Mob will have a technique that allows him to break through the barriers of stronger opponents (brass knuckles) and once he breaks Tatsumaki's barrier, he will twist it into a bagel

 

[NikHelton]

??? surpasses Toichiro with a total release about which Courage Mob literally broke his hands in a direct collision. This Courage Mob accomplished the feat of 8.35 Exatons without much effort.

Tatsumaki vastly outperforms Psyrochi, which outperforms Gaia Canon, which is larger than 5.68 Exatons


??? >>>>>>> Toichiro 100% >> Mob Courage 100% > 8.35 Exatons

Tatsumaki >> Psyrochi >>>> Gaia Canon > 5.68 Exatons

They have the same chain length, however the difference between Toichiro and "???%" is shown to be much larger than the difference between Psyrochi and Tatsumaki. Toichiro was afraid to absorb his energy. One casual attack "???" charged Suzuki quite heavily, making him more confident in battle, though he had previously been concerned about the difference in their power.
He literally says that he has replenished a significant part of the previously lost energy. That is, one casual wave of Mob's hand already surpasses the Courage form.

Since physical abilities depend on mental energy, and judging by the difference between "???" and "Courage 100%" the speed of this version of Mob is also many times higher.
Most likely, her speed advantage is minimal or non-existent.

Based on this, Mob has more energy, more raw strength, more AP, regeneration, the ability to break through barriers of equal strength and a bunch of hax to help him win.

Tats' only chance is to use stealth. However, I don't think the trick will work twice.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

My vote goes to Mob. Though Tatsumaki may have more experience, I believe that Mob's other abilities give him a greater advantage. He can absorb Tatsumaki's energy and the energy from the atmosphere, and he could also manipulate the plant life of the area. As already pointed out above, Mob's also got insane potential and learning rate. He should be more skilled than Teruki, who could replicate the Air Whips after seeing them once, as well as multiple other techniques like the clones and explosion generation. Mob has also shown similar potential, capable of replicating the plant manipulation after seeing how the farm spirit did it, and even remembered how to leave his body after having seen an esper do it before. Mob has also seen several techniques, such as lightning generation and explosions from Toichiro, as well as the clone technique from Muraki, it's just that he's never had the need to use it. The few times he's been pushed to his limit, he was either defeated or his opponent self-destructed. Therefore, I think ???% would replicate the techniques he's seen from other psychics in this battle to get the edge once he realizes Tatsumaki can't be restrained with regular psychic powers. So I believe that after a very difficult battle, Mob would emerge victorious.

 

[Nierre]

Mob definitely takes this. Tats has advantages but nothing game changing from what I've seen. Mob can just absorb her energy and copy her abilities if he needs to, her range advantage is literally useless because he's going to use his forcefields to block everything and even absorb her energy. His versatility is a big advantage because she will always be on edge, because she will struggle to hurt him.

 

[NikHelton]

???% : 10 (NikHelton, Planck69, Maverick_Zero_X, Tural2004, Cryo123, CiscoTheSoto, DarthSorox, SuperStar, Unknownnah, Nierre)

Tatsumaki: 5 (Kachon123, Epicheev, RandomGuy2345, NotoriouSoda, Recon1511)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Nierre]

you don't need to bold staff lol it's a vs match

our votes are just as equal as staffs' in this case

 

[NikHelton]

you don't need to bold staff lol it's a vs match

our votes are just as equal as staffs' in this case

I copied the Plank text, so they are highlighted

 

[Spinoirr]

Wouldn't her Relativistic+ attack speed help here?

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Wouldn't her Relativistic+ attack speed help here?

Nah, it's been stated she doesn't have the control to move objects at those speeds without them disintegrating. Only Geryganshoop has the skill to eliminate friction when objects move that fast. This is stated on her profile, that such attack speed would only help if she's near objects that don't disintegrate at that speed. Personally, that's kinda stupid because who would know what objects wouldn't burn up at that speed, but the point is that no, her Relativistic attack speed wouldn't help. Besides, it's listed as possibly, which means there's an option of not adding it, and I've chosen not to add it for this match.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Voting Tatsumaki because;

1. I'm a simp
2. Range, speed and LS advantage
3. Better skill + experience
4. Mob barely uses any of the hax he possesses.
5. Mob's absorption has only been used on fodder at best. It's doubtful he's capable of considerably draining Tatsumaki considering he failed to absorb Toichiro's energy completely.
6. ???% is completely inexperienced and only used to fighting fodder. Unlike Tatsumaki who would be able to sense what level a fellow esper is on, ???% has no such showings and comes off more as a muscle for brains kinda person and mostly behaves like it lacks sentience at all.

It's actually been years since i funished mob psycho and i didn't watch the recent season so could someone please remind me which other copied hax mob actively uses besides plant manipulation? He's actually only utilized it twice to my knowledge.

Saying ???% can utilize powers mob has seen is kind of a stretch as no evidence points to that besides ???% saying he is mob

 

[Nierre]

Mob's absorption has only been used on fodder at best. It's doubtful he's capable of considerably draining Tatsumaki considering he failed to absorb Toichiro's energy completely.

IIRC he completely absorbed Toichiro and Sho's Charged Bomb with ease at ???%

 

[Nierre]

IIRC he completely absorbed Toichiro and Sho's Charged Bomb with ease at ???%

Yeah here it is. He casually absorbed their full power

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yeah here it is. He casually absorbed their full power

Yeah, excluding that this toichiro clearly doesn't have the amount of energy he amassed for 20 years (i think) which he failed to absorb

 

[Nierre]

Yeah, excluding that this toichiro clearly doesn't have the amount of energy he amassed for 20 years (i think) which he failed to absorb

You're right but not only was their first fight with 100%, but Toichiro also said in the chapter that he had no idea that their gap was this big, implying that even at his peak he would've stood no chance. Obviously, ???% is leaps and bounds stronger and far far more superior than Mob's 100%, so it wouldn't be a leap of logic to say that Toichiro's fully amassed Charged Bomb would've still been absorbed by ???% fairly easily.

 

[NikHelton]

Voting Tatsumaki because;

1. I'm a simp

Bruh

1. Range, speed and LS advantage

Tats LS - 1,15558624 * 10^16 kg;
Mob LS - >>1,382×10^16 kg;

Tatsumaki has never shown a fight at a distance of a thousand kilometers. In the best case, the fight will go at a distance of several kilometers. The advantage in distance is meaningless.

Given the scaling, the speed advantage is either minimal or absent

1. Better skill + experience

I agree. However, Mob has a lot of experience in the battle with equal opponents and this will equalize their chances.

1. Mob barely uses any of the hax he possesses.

In this form, he simply did not encounter anyone equal. He may well do this to achieve the goal

1. Mob's absorption has only been used on fodder at best. It's doubtful he's capable of considerably draining Tatsumaki considering he failed to absorb Toichiro's energy completely.

He has already absorbed a power that surpasses the key of 8 Exatons. In this vein, the percentage of power that he absorbed is just a casual wave of his hand

1. ???% is completely inexperienced and only used to fighting fodder. Unlike Tatsumaki who would be able to sense what level a fellow esper is on, ???% has no such showings and comes off more as a muscle for brains kinda person and mostly behaves like it lacks sentience at all.

What are you talking about? It's the same Mob, just straightforward and cold-blooded. The fact that he came across enemies that he could ignore and just move forward does not mean that he is stupid

 

[Nierre]

Yeah, ???% is completely goal driven and bloodlusted. He will do whatever he needs to do to achieve his goals, even if it means hurting and nearly killing Mob's friends, something Mob himself would never do. If ???% realizes that he cannot defeat Toichiro with normal means, he will use his hax to defeat him.

 

[Planck69]

People should really stop acting like ???% is stupid or lacks sentience. They were fighting fodder, of course there wasn't any special moves used. We even get a mental conversation with him.

Also, the failure to fully absorb energy that occurred was with 100% Mob. ???% shows no such issues.

And again, he's just Mob. He knows all of his experiences.

 

[Kachon123]

Tatsumaki has never shown a fight at a distance of a thousand kilometers

?

 

[NikHelton]

You're right but not only was their first fight with 100%, but Toichiro also said in the chapter that he had no idea that their gap was this big, implying that even at his peak he would've stood no chance. Obviously, ???% is leaps and bounds stronger and far far more superior than Mob's 100%, so it wouldn't be a leap of logic to say that Toichiro's fully amassed Charged Bomb would've still been absorbed by ???% fairly easily.

Toichiro said that Mob's casual attack gave him back a lot of his lost energy.

 

[Planck69]

Also, I haven't kept up with OPM. Does she have any new tactics aside from telekinesis that I'm forgetting?

 

[Kachon123]

Also, I haven't kept up with OPM. Does she have any new tactics aside from telekinesis that I'm forgetting?

She puts her psychic energy into rock clones and lessen her power to make the opponent think that she's the rock and catch them off-guard.

 

[NikHelton]

?

But it's not thousands of kilometers. Hundreds at best.
This happened at the moment when she saved the city from the Tsunami and never happened again.

 

[Epiccheev]

She will probably get some in the upcoming chapters, but it's pretty much just TK, a new barrier that she developed pretty fast to avoid having her barrier turned against her and throwing rubble, and creating body doubles by using stone puppets with the same psychic presence as her from a large distance coupled with using rubble for hiding to catch her opponents off guard,

 

[Cryo123]

Also, I haven't kept up with OPM. Does she have any new tactics aside from telekinesis that I'm forgetting?

Nope. She just overwhelms opponents with brute force.

She's actually a terrible combatant, constantly leaving herself open even against opponents who pose a threat to her.

Edit: Mediocre is more accurate because she's creative.

 

[Recon1511]

Cryo straight up lying smh

Also Tatsumaki destroying foes on a celullar level isn't exaggeration or flowery language, its very much literal as it was stated by Drive Knight who was annoyed that Tatsumaki had completely obliterated Orochi's remains that he was looking to study.

She also does this to Evil Eye

 

[Tatsumi504]

You're right but not only was their first fight with 100%, but Toichiro also said in the chapter that he had no idea that their gap was this big, implying that even at his peak he would've stood no chance. Obviously, ???% is leaps and bounds stronger and far far more superior than Mob's 100%, so it wouldn't be a leap of logic to say that Toichiro's fully amassed Charged Bomb would've still been absorbed by ???% fairly easily.

Except that we aren't scaling their AP but what he is cap able of absorbing. At the end of the day ???% is still mob's body and clearly has a limit to what he can absorb as shown

He has already absorbed a power that surpasses the key of 8 Exatons. In this vein, the percentage of power that he absorbed is just a casual wave of his hand

You're misunderstanding. Mob has a limit to the amount of energy he can absorb.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Mob LS - >>1,382×10^16 kg;

Pretty sure 2nd msg said mob is 1,382e+15kg

Yeah, ???% is completely goal driven and bloodlusted. He will do whatever he needs to do to achieve his goals, even if it means hurting and nearly killing Mob's friends, something Mob himself would never do. If ???% realizes that he cannot defeat Toichiro with normal

People should really stop acting like ???% is stupid or lacks sentience. They were fighting fodder, of course there wasn't any special moves used. We even get a mental conversation with him.

Kinda contradictory considering mob himself has used hax (plant manipulation) on fodder.

Also, the failure to fully absorb energy that occurred was with 100% Mob. ???% shows no such issues.

Bruh, the vessel absorbing the energy remains the same and that vessel already displayed a limit. Why would scaling higher with ???% improve surpass his absorption limit when the container is the same?

 

[NikHelton]

Except that we aren't scaling their AP but what he is cap able of absorbing. At the end of the day ???% is still mob's body and clearly has a limit to what he can absorb as shown

You're misunderstanding. Mob has a limit to the amount of energy he can absorb.

Mob has already shown that it can absorb the energy of more than 8 Exatons

 

[NikHelton]

Pretty sure 2nd msg said mob is 1,382e+15kg

He forgot to use multipliers