Battle for the strongest Mega Bug part 1

[Drite77]

Anime never features the ability working on both mons. The only manga that it appears is in Adventures, and it doesn't explain nothing about it

 

[Imaginym]

Deeply disappointing.

 

[GyroNutz]

How annoying

 

[HenryWong122]

This is Mega-Pinsir at its strongest, so he's going to hit Mega-Scizor with his strongest move. Its strongest move is a three way tie between Close Combat, Superpower and Thrash. Hopefully it knows how its ability works, how its attacks work and it should have fought Mega-Scizor before.

 

[Drite77]

"Should have fought mega scizor before" Eh, i don't know of that is allowed, giving hat scizor is very rare in the wild, but m scizor is basically the base form but amped

 

[HenryWong122]

"Should have fought Mega-Scizor before" Eh, I don't know of that is allowed, giving that Scizor is very rare in the wild, but M-Scizor is basically the base form but amped

So is Pinsir, but that doesn't mean anything. Also, its two for Mega-Pinsir.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Lets take a look at it from the outside... Smogon Style.

HP: Mega Scizor, 70 > 65

Attack: Mega Pinsir, 155 > 150

Defense: Mega Scizor, 140 > 120

Special Attack: Equal, 65

Special Defense: Mega Scizor, 100 > 90

Speed: Mega Pinsir, 105 > 75

Seems like Mega Scizor has this, despite being slower and slightly physically weaker, it has some good defenses to help outlast Mega Pinsirs attacks. And with more moves that cover Mega Pinsirs weakness (such as Rock Type moves), this should give Mega Scizor the win here. Voting Mega Scizor.

 

[HenryWong122]

Lets take a look at it from the outside... Smogon Style.
HP: Mega Scizor, 70 > 65

Attack: Mega Pinsir, 155 > 150

Defense: Mega Scizor, 140 > 120

Special Attack: Equal, 65

Special Defense: Mega Scizor, 100 > 90

Speed: Mega Pinsir, 105 > 75

Seems like Mega Scizor has this, despite being slower and slightly physically weaker, it has some good defenses to help outlast Mega Pinsirs attacks. And with more moves that cover Mega Pinsirs weakness (such as Rock Type moves), this should give Mega Scizor the win here. Voting Mega Scizor.

If you did this in the actual game, Mega-Pinsir would two-shot Mega-Scizor with Thrash. In the actual game, they can both two-shot, but Mega-Pinsir is faster.

The only Rock-type moves that Scizor gets are Sandstorm and Hidden Power, which are both TMs and therefor not allowed. The only attacks that Scizor gets that are super-effective are Aerial Ace which is a TM, Acrobatics which is a TM, Wing Attack and Air Slash.

 

[Imaginym]

This is Mega-Pinsir at its strongest, so he's going to hit Mega-Scizor with his strongest move. Its strongest move is a three way tie between Close Combat, Superpower and Thrash. Hopefully it knows how its ability works, how its attacks work and it should have fought Mega-Scizor before.

Being at its strongest refers to statistics, not its tactics. In-character, rampaging probably isn't Pinsir's first tactic, let alone Mega Pinsir's first tactics. Some Pokedex entries for Mega Pinsir:

"The influence of Mega Evolution leaves it in a state of constant excitement. It pierces enemies with its two large horns before shredding them."

"It zips around at blistering speeds, looking for an opening to skewer its opponent on its giant pincers."

In-character, Mega Pinsir's opening tactic is to try & skewer its opponent, and likely flying around quickly, looking for an opening to do so.

If we look at its base form's Pokedex entries, it's repeatedly mentioned that Pinsir will grip foes between its horns/pincers, with a tough grip, attempting to tear them. Some entries also mention that if it can't do so, it throws the opponent.

Funnily enough, it probably would fail to crush the metal Scizor, & throwing it away just gives Scizor distance to use ranged attacks/set-up.

Superpower has been used by a Mega Pinsir in the Pokemon Adventures Manga where it was just charging the opponent with great force. Close Combat hasn't been shown used by Pinsir, but it often involves lots of punches, kicks, etc, is described as "The user fights the target up close without guarding itself." & its Japanese name, is pronounced as "infight", a likely reference to a style of boxing focused on being up close & applying constant pressure, AFAIK.

I could see Superpower being likely as part of it trying to impale Scizor, but Thrash is dubious (What constitutes "rampaging"?) & Close Combat doesn't line up with (Mega) Pinsir's usual tactics at all.

And all 3 of them have drawbacks, not to mention Scizor has several moves it can use against them. Iron Defense, Double Team, Agility, Counter....

 

[HenryWong122]

This is Mega-Pinsir at its strongest, so he's going to hit Mega-Scizor with his strongest move. Its strongest move is a three way tie between Close Combat, Superpower and Thrash. Hopefully it knows how its ability works, how its attacks work and it should have fought Mega-Scizor before.

You know what, I don't give a shit. I'm leaving. Mega-Pinsir wins and that's all there is to it.

 

[Imaginym]

@HenryWong122: Sorry to hear that you don't care to continue the debate. My vote hasn't changed.

Rather than repeat what I've said above, I'll just say this: Mega-Scizor wins, and that's all there is to it. (Now isn't that sentence a very constructive, analytical & fair argument?)

 

[Drite77]

@Psycho sorry, but not couting your vote, Stats are game mechanics and scizor doesn't learn any good rock moves

 

[Drite77]

Bump

 

[GyroNutz]

I'll change my vote to Mega Scizor FRA

 

[PaChi2]

"If you did this in the actual game, Mega-Pinsir would two-shot Mega-Scizor with Thrash. In the actual game, they can both two-shot, but Mega-Pinsir is faster."

Bullet Punch?

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Or does that not do enough damage?

 

[PaChi2]

I mean, expert boosted Wing attack (remember scyther is a thing) + bullet punch should KO Pinsir, right?

 

[Drite77]

I dont know, i will check

 

[Drite77]

252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pinsir-Mega: 102-121 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Vs

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Thrash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor-Mega: 201-237 (71.5 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This counts an offensive and not defensive m scizor

 

[Imaginym]

I mean, if we're posting calculations.... Not that base stats, & by extension, damage calculations based mostly off of them are something we typically consider canon, but....

Using Neutral Natures, no Effort Values, & IVs of 31 in all stats....

0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Wing Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pinsir-Mega: 158-188 (58.3 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pinsir-Mega: 79-94 (29.1 - 34.6%) -- 7.4% chance to 3HKO

0 SpA Scizor-Mega Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pinsir-Mega: 84-100 (30.9 - 36.9%) -- 72.2% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Thrash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor-Mega: 169-201 (60.1 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But again, Game Mechanics, & Pinsir winning via that assumes Scizor doesn't actually have the Stamina to survive Pinsir Thrashing, the time to set up something like Iron Defense, Agility or Double Team, the skill to dodge, or the sense to just Air Slash at range when the fight begins while Pinsir is approaching.

(Not to mention I doubt something "rampaging" as per the description of Thrash will be fighting especially skillfully.)

 

[Drite77]

Pachi asked if BP could 2 shot and in the games and i showed that it can't, just that

 

[PaChi2]

No, no. I asked if Scizor could 2HKO with the last attack being bullet punch (which has priority).

And after seeing your calcs, Wing Attack + Bullet Punch = Ded Pinsir.

Since the displayed WA was 0 EVs I assume a 252 Atk Wing Attack + BP are 2HKO. Can someone check it?

 

[Drite77]

But like, isn't that just Game mechanics?

 

[PaChi2]

But like, isn't that just Game mechanics?

I was replying to a comment that said "If we take this to the actual game...". Of course it will be game mechanics.

 

[Imaginym]

@Pachi2: https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/ Calculate your Heart Out.

Technically, the 0 EV Wing Attack also assumes Neutral Nature. And if we're giving a non-neutral Nature & EVs to Scizor, why not to Pinsir, too?

Anyway, with 252 ATK EVs on Scizor & no other changes to either 'mon, WA does 69.3% or more & BP does 34.3% or more on Pinsir; Guaranteed 2HKO.

Without EVs, WA & BP both have to have above average damage rolls to make a 2HKO, if used in succession. (Or just 2 WAs, guaranteed 2HKO.)

And yes, again, total game mechanics.

(Bullet Punch also can technically 2HKO in the games, but it needs Scizor to go +ATK Nature, 252 ATK EVs & for Pinsir to have some combination of a - DEF Nature, 0 IV in HP, DEF, or just bad IVs in both.)

 

[Drite77]

Bump

 

[Drite77]

Bump

 

[Roachman40]

Metal Ant FRA

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

When has a battle ever contradicted them? </div>

I do hope you're not being serious. I mean, even among the speeds the Pokedex claims for some Pokemon vs their base stats, or some Pokemon going up against one another in the anime in canon & one outspeeding another....

Well, in this case, it seems fairly accurate.

 

[Drite77]

bump

 

[Drite77]

bump

 

[Drite77]

Bump

 

[Drite77]

Bump

 

[Drite77]

bump

 

[Drite77]

Bump

 

[GyroNutz]

Have you tried the voting lootbox?

 

[Drite77]

Yeah, but i don't want to bump it

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

You've been bumping it for the last week.

 

[Drite77]

I don't want to bump in the lootob box... ok, screw it

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I did it for you.