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Base Sonic's AP

Base Modern Sonic should remain High 6-A, and it's Super Sonic's lowend being downgraded to 5-A is the next topic?
 
Isn't Eggrobo High 6-A only from a statement?

I explained in last thread why it doesn't make sense for it to be draining geothermal energy or water, but rather that it would be draining the energy of life on the planet (which no-one has calc'd yet).
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Base Modern Sonic should remain High 6-A, and it's Super Sonic's lowend being downgraded to 5-A is the next topic?
Click to expand...
At least 5-A is for those that uses the Negative Energy of the Emeralds, since Super Sonic uses the Positive Energy of the Emeralds he curbstomped Perfect Chaos and normally struggled with 4-A beings like the Finalhazard that Merged with a Full Powered Colony Ark which is equal to the Final Egg Blaster.
 
Executor No calced Nega Wisps & Eggrobo, both of them yielded large planet level & would also correlate to base Modern Sonic harming Imperfect Dark Gaia & defeating Perfect Chaos, aswell as Emerl's supposed planet busting capabilities before the FEB existed. The feats & scaling seem consistent towards 5-A again.
 
Agnaa said:
Isn't Eggrobo High 6-A only from a statement?

I explained in last thread why it doesn't make sense for it to be draining geothermal energy or water, but rather that it would be draining the energy of life on the planet (which no-one has calc'd yet).
Click to expand...
No. The machine was draining the whole power of the planet and leaving it a dead husk. We see it affecting the land on the whole Planet.
 
AD INFINITUM 444 said:
Executor No calced Nega Wisps & Eggrobo, both of them yielded large planet level & would also correlate to base Modern Sonic harming Imperfect Dark Gaia & defeating Perfect Chaos, aswell as Emerl's supposed planet busting capabilities before the FEB existed. The feats & scaling seem consistent towards 5-A again.
Click to expand...
The calcs still needs to be evalueated, Emerl was only stated to destroy the earth with the emeralds with no mentions of a oneshot. Emerl was also using a 4-A weapon to do it.
 
That is for Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, which has debatable canonicity. Even if the comic says it's canon, the overall universe and design doesn't fit with the rest of the series.

The Eggrobo and Wisp Black Holes have 0 proof.
 
The Black Hole of Sonic Colors manages to suck Sonic, which is FTL. That alone is enough to calculate the mass of that sphere through escape velocity.

And having an official source confirming that it is canonical is valid unless a more recent source points out otherwise. Heck, the Sonic franchise is full of contradictions since World Adventure and Iizuka's invention of there being two worlds where Sonic's adventures take place. To deny the canonicity of something that has a basis for "Do not seem to fit" is unnecessary.
 
"The Black Hole of Sonic Colors manages to suck Sonic, which is FTL. That alone is enough to calculate the mass of that sphere through escape velocity."

How does this prove anything...?
 
While i agree with the others about the black holes, i'm searching for someone or Executor to calc this feat? since it might be useful for this thread.
 
The Everlasting said:
"The Black Hole of Sonic Colors manages to suck Sonic, which is FTL. That alone is enough to calculate the mass of that sphere through escape velocity."
How does this prove anything...?
Click to expand...
Black holes are strong enough to suck up light. So I guess he's trying to say that the Black hole actually acts like a black hole.

(Wonder how eggman built all of that though. Since Sonic is running at FTL speeds, there must've been a shit ton of work to do to get the platform he was running on that long)
 
If Sonic, even being FTL, can not escape the Violet Void, this means that his escape velocity is higher than the speed of light. If you look at my calculation you will see that I used the escape velocity formula to find the mass of Violet Void.
 
"The Black Hole of Sonic Colors manages to suck Sonic, which is FTL. That alone is enough to calculate the mass of that sphere through escape velocity."

This is literally Calc-stacking. Sonic is FTL for other feats, not for outrunning the black hole.

"And having an official source confirming that it is canonical is valid unless a more recent source points out otherwise"

Not when the whole game's design, world and story contradicts the rest of the Modern Series. It fits with neither the Adventure-era "Real World but with animals" aesthetic, the Classic-era Cartoon aesthetic, or the Modern-era "Exaggerated World with Cartoon Humans" aesthetic.

Instead, Sonic Riders takes place in a f*cking Cyberpunk world.
 
No. If I used a specific speed for Sonic then it would be, but I simply used "c" in the calculation to find the minimum value for the black hole. Sonic is Sol-FTL, Violet Void sucks Sonic. The escape velocity of the Violet Void is FTL. I'm scalling to a speed feat, not using a specific value in a calculation. That would be Calc-stacking.


And no, official information is always more valid than a personal opinion of "Does not fit." Again, the idea of multiple worlds where Sonic's adventures occur contradicts everything that has occured until the Adventure era, but it's official for the modern era. It does not make sense and yet SEGA does not care about this consistency.
 
@Executor N0

The FTL speed of Sonic is based on feats that are isolated from the Black Hole feat. If anything, treating it as a realistic Black Hole means Sonic isn't FTL since he can't escape it.

Just like a scene where Sonic struggles to dodge a missile or a bullet doesnt make both FTL, it means that Sonic isn't FTL in those scenes.

Sonic isn't FTL in every scene. He has like one FTL statement, one Lightspeed statement, and two FTL feats (In-game in Unleashed scaling from Lightspeed Dash, and Omega calculating his speed). Also debatably him being faster than the Light Wisp.

There's numerous scenes where Sonic is barely Mach 1. Hell, in the Opening Cutscene of Sonic CD we can clearly see Sonic needing to accelerate before forming Sonic Booms and starting to move faster than sound.

So Sonic not escaping a "Black Hole" (One that doesn't even absorb the light around it or the matter of the ground it formed on), even if it is a real black hole, is actually a not-FTL feat.

The official information is one thing, and it comes from a vaguely-canon side comic of a vaguely-canon spin-off. You cannot use the fallacy of "SEGA does not care for consistency" to mean we shouldn't either. Else let us make Sonic Drift Canon.

The world doesn't fit any other in the entire Sonic Franchise even when including stuff like the comics. It is clearly an isolated spin-off.
 
Also, scaling Base Sonic to a planet-sized Black Hole is ridiculous. The feat will most likely wield high-end 4-B. It is absurd to scale that to Base Sonic, a guy who is beneath the power of the Seven Chaos Emeralds which are consistently 5-B to 4-A.
 
No, a black hole simply has an "escape velocity" exceeding velocity the speed of light (All other characteristics are not Necessary Truths and depend exclusively on the contingency of the universe). The exact value depends mainly on the mass and radius of the body. Saying that something FTL can escape from a black hole is not a rule because it depends on how fast the character is faster than light and how much is the escape velocity of the Black Hole. If a character is 5x faster than light and the escape velocity of the black hole is 10x the speed of light then he will not be able to escape from the Black Hole.

And his comparison does not make sense, based on this speed scale would be unfeasible because we would never know how fast he used in a combat. Sonic was running for his life, it's in the same series that he moved faster than a Cyan Wips (A laser) and is calculated as capable of moving above the speed of light. The Violet Void manages to suck Sonic, so his escape velocity is higher than the speed of light. We do not know the value and applying something accurate would be wrong for the reasons you put forward, so simply using "c" would be reasonable and justified by the simple fact of being a black hole (What is the meaning of something being called a Black Hole if it does not has an escape velocity greater than the speed of light?).

Sonic Forces confirms that Sonic Generations is canon. This confirms that Sonic and The Secret Rings is canon. And this confirms that Sonic Riders is canon. What is the basis for saying that it is not canon besides "Does not fit into the series environment"? And I never said that the game was canon by SEGA not to worry about it, I said that just by SEGA not to worry about it that "Do not fit in what was presented" does not justify Sonic Riders not be canon.

In any way no one seems to trust it, and I may be warned again to stop because of the terms and analytical method I use, and how I need to get back to work on the Digimon revisions, I'm going to abandon this so as not to cause further complications.
 
Okay, can we please just agree on 5-A and be done with it? I mean seriously. This is getting nowhere and I hate getting 50 replies every 2 minutes.
 
No, the Black Hole does not even have proof of it being a real-life Black Hole. You are just using Sonic's feats from other games and scenes to try to cross-scale the escape velocity as being FTL. That is, I am sorry, wanking. It is in no way a reasonable assumption.

Prove it has realistic properties of a Black Hole, like you did with Sonic Riders, first.

"it's in the same series that he moved faster than a Cyan Wips (A laser) and is calculated as capable of moving above the speed of light"

The first feat is in Colors, but the later, to my knowledge, isn't. We are also crisscrossing the feats from the DS and Wii versions which have different plots.

"Sonic Forces confirms that Sonic Generations is canon. This confirms that Sonic and The Secret Rings is canon. And this confirms that Sonic Riders is canon"

Nobody ever questioned Forces, Generations or even Secret Rings as canon. Two of these are main series titles, and the third doesn't contradict everything as it is Sonic travelling to a parallel reality.

Sonic Riders contradicts everything about all three portrayals of the Sonic World. It isn't a cartoon world with no humans. It isn't a semi-realistic replica of real life Earth, and it also isn't a cartoony, exaggerated version of Earth.
 
TheGoodCapt said:
Okay, can we please just agree on 5-A and be done with it? I mean seriously. This is getting nowhere and I hate getting 50 replies every 2 minutes.
Click to expand...
Can we agree on not using 5-A? The two feats are based on unproven asumptions. Sonic has no 5-A feat in base.

And no, stinging Dark Gaia's eye in no way makes Base Sonic 5-A. This is the same game where Sonic needs to use either a Giant Robot or Super Form to defeat Dark Gaia, and it scales to his AP just as much as a Bee gets 9-C scaling from landing in a Professional UFC Fighter's eye.
 
@Matt

Not really a good analogy,I've seen enough exploded skulls to verify that an eye is one of the most durable things in a body & a bee is going to use venom to irritate a UFC fighter,not force.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Sonic Riders contradicts everything about all three portrayals of the Sonic World. It isn't a cartoon world with no humans. It isn't a semi-realistic replica of real life Earth, and it also isn't a cartoony, exaggerated version of Earth.
Click to expand...
I mean the only thing that canonizes Riders is Jet's counterpart Sir Lamorak appearing as one of the Knights of the Round Table in Sonic and The Black Knight
 
Yeah but that would essentially mean that he exists in the "real world" along with the other Knights' counterparts
 
> Consistently 4-A Emeralds

Only displayed this power once and from a guy known to have technology capable of fully draining the Emeralds. If anything, it's either an outlier or something we can't apply to Sonic since the power taken from the Emeralds is inconsistent as all hell.

I'm firmly of the belief you meed at least two feats on that level before it's justifiable.

Either way, Base being Planet level is a no from me. I'm still shaky about Multi-Continent so include me on the side of not upgradimg Base.
 
He only drained the negative energy & the reason Eggman built the FEB in the first place was to obtain the Chaos Emeralds.
 
The Positive Energy of the Emeralds (Which Sonic uses) is canonically >>> Negative Energy.

See Sonic still going Super after Chaos drains the Seven Emeralds so much they turn grey.
 
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