BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Make sense to me. We already knew that the team was also suggesting ideas to him and he validate them or not.

That's true, but all of the fights? I don't think so.

 

[Hellscream]

Uhh yeah no, im not believing some random bleach fanpage.

 

[Peterdenman156]

Potentially, my speed revisions are coming after the AP revisions. So a bit longer still, but Bleach fans have been waiting for a while anyway, what’s a little longer

From what I’ve seen, Ichigo TS has a speed of around FTL+ 19c, right? Or is it higher than that, based on his fight with Yhwach Post-Auswahlen

 

[Bastolan27]

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Kiyone & Isane are adorable, Shuhei is dressed like Shuhei (which ends up being pretty good), but my god, why the hell does  Omaeda, all of people look so good?!

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Not a 2 year one bucko

If you do the math, Ichigo is 17 but a few months away from being 18 at the end of the lost agent arc, so it's not 2 years, it'd only need to be one year.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Eva gettin put on a list

they changed it temporarily because I convinced one of the mods last year

Didn't look like fall, trees were all very green

there is literally no need for speculation, because we know the date of Masaki's death, and that's june 17, so they're in june

TBH getting rid of Gin shit is the best speed thing ever.

ya'll aren't gonna like what arc thinks of mach 500 gin

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Wtf?

If this happens, then I won, but not in the way I would've wanted. It's actually so funny if this is the case though.

If the new fights aren't canon, we can still use statements and feats as secondary canon maybe, IDFK. We might actually be so cooked. We flew too close to the sun {Renji > Yamamoto scaling}, and now we're boutta have our scaling ****** over {shit not being canon}.

Uhh yeah no, im not believing some random bleach fanpage.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I've followed this page for a bit, and the've never said something about Klub outside that's not true, so I would take it seriously.

 

[Deceived3596]

Eva doomer posting on main

 

[Adam1396]

I was referring specifically to the Antithesis. It's not an AP-based ability, it's a hax one.

Yes, I know that Uryu scales anyway, but that wasn't what I was talking about.

I'm talking abiut askin.
Not uryu.
Askin scales to ichigo by same logic.
2C askin incoming.
If bleach most of characters start to get 2C scaling like DB, it will be hella funny

 

[AppleLord]

Didn’t Yhwach said “give unto me all that you are” or something like that before slicing the Soul King? I assume all the Elite Quincy are nerfed afterwards since his statement would mean they gave him every bit of their power. What happened is they are giving back the power he gave to them? That means Renji vs Uryu isn’t that far fetched. And the whole Ichigo holding back adds up.

 

[Adam1396]

Didn’t Yhwach said “give unto me all that you are” or something like that before slicing the Soul King? I assume all the Elite Quincy are nerfed afterwards since his statement would mean they gave him every bit of their power. What happened is they are giving back the power he gave to them? That means Renji vs Uryu isn’t that far fetched. And the whole Ichigo holding back adds up.

Good point

 

[Excellence616]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I've followed this page for a bit, and the've never said something about Klub outside that's not true, so I would take it seriously.

Yeah, that what i thought since the account is know for giving accurate new from Kubo.. but the thing is that are we gonna ignore the number of times Kubo stated that he would add somethings that he wanted to add in the manga to the anime

 

[AppleLord]

Yeah, that what i thought since the account is know for giving accurate new from Kubo.. but the thing is that are we gonna ignore the number of times Kubo stated that he would add somethings that he wanted to add in the manga to the anime

We need raws because it could be a bad translation.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Whatever it is, it's just not canonically possible for Renji to become stronger than Yamamoto in any way. It's extremely consistently portrayed that Yamamoto is a static pillar of strength in the story, far beyond just CFYOW, and Kubo has explicitly confirmed that veteran captains are static in power several times (look below). Furthermore, it is a significant narrative point in CFYOW that things work in this grounded way, where (most) CFYOW captains don't powercliff Yamamoto. It wouldn't be a simple statement getting retconned, these narratives which are consistently established through the manga, guidebooks, interviews, and novels would be completely broken. Also, there is no indication Kubo has radically changed his mind on the story and how things work in it, based on his Klub Outside answers.

Shunsui is still relevant, and he'll go on to fight a Post-Auschwahlen Royal Guard member. At the start of the TYBW, Kubo explicitly said this about him:

Q (some Shonen Jump guy): The senior captains won't undergo changes, so Kyoraku hasn't changed either?
Kubo: That's correct. Captains who have been in their positions for a long time don't tend to change much. They've gone through many battles in the past. However, in the future battles, you will see different and new sides. I believe that Kyoraku will use Bankai. Also, there is a certain significance to the haori that Shunsui wears.

The most consistent and logical way of looking at this is that we made a mistake analyzing the characters or scene, and Renji didn't become that strong. Even contextually, based on the stuff we saw in the last cour, Rukia is narratively shown to be relative to Renji, and she wasn't completely wrecking As Nodt, a regular Sternritter in every way. She didn't flick him away, which she'd clearly be able to do if she was even somewhat relative to Renji.

We need raws because it could be a bad translation.

I saw people discussing this on twitter, and based on his explicit statements from the interview he did with Viz, it seems unlikely that the tweet is fully accurate.

 

[Excellence616]

But still tho, the anime is still valid even if we go by the manga since Kubo is involved in it.
We can use Technique from the anime.
The only valid fights are those that happened in the manga e.g Yhwach vs Ichigo, Uryu vs Ichigo.

 

[SilentBob34]

I’m more interested to see if Kubo bringing back transcendence has an effect on CFYOW scaling. With no one sensing Yhwach as the SK and Aizen’s statement of having transcendent reiatsu and no one sensing him, while Kenpachi and Hikone could both be sensed it’d put them around Bankai RG level but below 2nd fusion Aizen.

Which I forgot if everyone gets upgraded to 2C after this cour it wouldn’t effect the scaling in the slightest since they’ll all be 2C lol

 

[Khaostichny]

Whether or not the fights were planned to be in the manga doesn't change their canonity, the only thing that matters is that Kubo is involved and that he considers the anime a better reflection of his vision for his Work. It doesn't matter if some fights are there for the purpose of filling time, if Kubo approved it, then it's canon.

 

[Peterdenman156]

Q&A Klub Outside

Q: When Hitsugaya faced Aizen in the Central 46 Compound, Aizen defeated Hitsugaya but did not attack Unohana or Isane and instead moved to the Sokyoku.

Was it because Aizen thought he could not win against Unohana?

A: I don’t think he believed he couldn’t win, but he was certain it would require a great deal of effort.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Q&A Klub Outside

Q: When Hitsugaya faced Aizen in the Central Execution Grounds, Aizen defeated Hitsugaya but did not attack Unohana or Isane and instead moved to the Sokyoku.

Was it because Aizen thought he could not win against Unohana?

A: I don’t think he believed he couldn’t win, but he was certain it would require a great deal of effort.

Oh this is going to definitely be useful later

 

[zylieo]

Whatever it is, it's just not canonically possible for Renji to become stronger than Yamamoto in any way. It's extremely consistently portrayed that Yamamoto is a static pillar of strength in the story, far beyond just CFYOW, and Kubo has explicitly confirmed that veteran captains are static in power several times (look below). Furthermore, it is a significant narrative point in CFYOW that things work in this grounded way, where (most) CFYOW captains don't powercliff Yamamoto. It wouldn't be a simple statement getting retconned, these narratives which are consistently established through the manga, guidebooks, interviews, and novels would be completely broken. Also, there is no indication Kubo has radically changed his mind on the story and how things work in it, based on his Klub Outside answers.

It doesn’t matter if the TYBW anime breaks manga scaling because it represents Kubo’s updated and definitive vision for Bleach. Kubo’s direct involvement ensures that any changes or additions, even if they contradict the manga, are valid within the canon, as the anime was designed to expand and complete ideas he couldn’t fully explore due to the constraints he faced during serialization. Eg. In the anime, Robert Accutrone never directly confronts Liltotto, Jugram doesn't shit his pants when he sees Gremmy's meteor, and The Quincies utilize Blut and Sklaverai in fights they didn't use it in. Once the anime concludes, we can more clearly distinguish what was newly added (like scenes or interactions that weren’t in the manga), what was retconned (if anything), and what remains consistent with the original story. This approach will allow us to have more of a comprehensive understanding of how the anime fits into Bleach’s canon, with Kubo’s personal input giving the final authority to what should be considered part of the official storyline.

 

[Adam1396]

Whatever it is, it's just not canonically possible for Renji to become stronger than Yamamoto in any way. It's extremely consistently portrayed that Yamamoto is a static pillar of strength in the story, far beyond just CFYOW, and Kubo has explicitly confirmed that veteran captains are static in power several times (look below). Furthermore, it is a significant narrative point in CFYOW that things work in this grounded way, where (most) CFYOW captains don't powercliff Yamamoto. It wouldn't be a simple statement getting retconned, these narratives which are consistently established through the manga, guidebooks, interviews, and novels would be completely broken. Also, there is no indication Kubo has radically changed his mind on the story and how things work in it, based on his Klub Outside answers.

Shunsui is still relevant, and he'll go on to fight a Post-Auschwahlen Royal Guard member. At the start of the TYBW, Kubo explicitly said this about him:

Q (some Shonen Jump guy): The senior captains won't undergo changes, so Kyoraku hasn't changed either?
Kubo: That's correct. Captains who have been in their positions for a long time don't tend to change much. They've gone through many battles in the past. However, in the future battles, you will see different and new sides. I believe that Kyoraku will use Bankai. Also, there is a certain significance to the haori that Shunsui wears.

The most consistent and logical way of looking at this is that we made a mistake analyzing the characters or scene, and Renji didn't become that strong. Even contextually, based on the stuff we saw in the last cour, Rukia is narratively shown to be relative to Renji, and she wasn't completely wrecking As Nodt, a regular Sternritter in every way. She didn't flick him away, which she'd clearly be able to do if she was even somewhat relative to Renji.


I saw people discussing this on twitter, and based on his explicit statements from the interview he did with Viz, it seems unlikely that the tweet is fully accurate.

Renji simply doesn’t scale to 2C version of uryu, he didn't face this version.
And uryu simply doesn’t scale to emotionally balanced ichigo. Even base ichigo.
Yeah kenpachis might be obvious anomaly but yama and aizen has been constantly potrait to be the peak of shinigami within soul society.
Renji beating shunsui, yamamoto, base aizen is hella funny. He ain't even taking on rukia.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Renji simply doesn’t scale to 2C version of uryu, he didn't face this version.

Yes, he did fight a 2-C Uryu. Complete Vollstandig>Incomplete Vollstandig (using the logic of its completion making him more powerful)>Bankai Senjumaru

And uryu simply doesn’t scale to emotionally balanced ichigo. Even base ichigo.

Uh, yes he does. Uryu still was able to hurt Ichigo regardless of him being emotionally conflicted. If you were shot with a gun while sad or scared, you'd still take the same damage the bullet would deal if you weren't. Slightly clashing with Getsuga Jujishou also is a very impressive feat becauew this same GJ broke through Yhwach's Sankt Zwinger effortlessly. Argue all you want, Uryu still scales to Ichigo, just that he downscales as Ichigo would've won given he went all out (seeing as even a conflicted Ichigo's Getsuga Jujishou still eventually overpowered Sternenstaub)

Yeah kenpachis might be obvious anomaly but yama and aizen has been constantly potrait to be the peak of shinigami within soul society.

Normal Shinigami. We're talking about Renji after Squad 0's training, in which he also was given special food that increased his reiatsu AND trained to awaken his true Bankai. No other person in the Gotei has ever received this training unless they were going to become a member themselves. Logically there are many ways you can come up with support for scaling above captain Aizen and Yamamoto.

Renji beating shunsui, yamamoto, base aizen is hella funny. He ain't even taking on rukia.

Based on feats, he puts them all in a pack. None of their shit is tagging him when he's far faster than them (fair reminder Base Uryu kept up with True Shikai Ichigo), and Zagaitekko is obliterating them.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Another thing too, Renji seems to have the same or a similar symbiotic relationship with his Zanpakuto like Ichigo and Aizen. When Renji ran out of power, his Bankai looked like it peeled from his skin, as if he willed it himself as a part of him. Not to mention he also wasn't holding the blade either, he just raw used it.

 

[Adam1396]

Yes, he did fight a 2-C Uryu. Complete Vollstandig>Incomplete Vollstandig>(using the logic of its completion making him more powerful)>Bankai Senjumaru

Uh, yes he does. Uryu still was able to hurt Ichigo regardless of him being emotionally conflicted. If you were shot with a gun while sad or scared, you'd still take the same damage the bullet would deal if you weren't. Slightly clashing with Getsuga Jujishou also is a very impressive feat becauew this same GJ broke through Yhwach's Sankt Zwinger effortlessly. Argue all you want, Uryu still scales to Ichigo, just that he downscales as Ichigo would've won given he went all out (seeing as even a conflicted Ichigo's Getsuga Jujishou still eventually overpowered Sternenstaub)

Normal Shinigami. We're talking about Renji after Squad 0's training, in which he also was given special food that increased his reiatsu AND trained to awaken his true Bankai. No other person in the Gotei has ever received this training unless they were going to become a member themselves. Logically there are many ways you can come up with support for scaling above captain Aizen and Yamamoto.

Based on feats, he puts them all in a pack. None of their shit is tagging him when he's far faster than them (fair reminder Base Uryu kept up with True Shikai Ichigo), and Zagaitekko is obliterating them.

This is wrong. We see back then uryu was struggling to contain the power. Later yhwach nerfed them again so that he cut cut the crystal and absorb reio.
Above bankai senjumaru? Shutara was using fraction of her power. Even his scaling to senjumaru itself is arguable since he one shotted a shut down shutara.

This comparison is nonsensial. Ichigo had transcendent level of reiryoku back in fake karakura town, the reason why he was able to sense aizen. But was almost fodderised by Gin. So back then he didn’t scale to aizen until he was utilizing his innate reiroku. Ultimately ap, dur depends on how much amount of reiroku the character is using which is reatsu. That's the case here. Ichigo was in extremely nerfed state.

As I've addressed above the feats and scaling is questionable. Don't worry anime itself will debunk such nonsensial notion.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

This is wrong. We see back then uryu was struggling to contain the power. Later yhwach nerfed them again so that he cut cut the crystal and absorb reio.

We don't know if this took his power, this is headcanon until it's proven true.

Above bankai senjumaru? Shutara was using fraction of her power.

A fraction of her power huh? That fraction is still 2-C, because an even weaker fraction shook the three worlds. I don't see how this changes anything. In fact, we see her try harder when Uryu escaped because Senju had to dodge and starting pulling out shit rather than just finger flick him. Also Uryu fought an Ichigo who is slightly superior to Post-Almighty Yhwach, who is massively superior to Ichibei, who is superior to her. Even if he was emotionally distressed, that is an entire one shot gap above her.

Even his scaling to senjumaru itself is arguable since he one shotted a shut down shutara.

She was still in her Bankai. She wasn't nerfed to Black Ant level. Getting one shotted is purely showing superiority.

This comparison is nonsensial. Ichigo had transcendent level of reiryoku back in fake karakura town, the reason why he was able to sense aizen.

He couldn't tap into that power because of Zangetsu.

But was almost fodderised by Gin.

Acting like Ichigo wasn't in a similar or possibly even worse mindset. Also, Ichigo still gave him a tough time even while he was having a fit.

So back then he didn’t scale to aizen until he was utilizing his innate reiroku.

Aizen was also, you know, not that strong yet. That Aizen wasn't as strong as the one Ichigo fought when he left the Dangai.

Ultimately ap, dur depends on how much amount of reiroku the character is using which is reatsu. That's the case here. Ichigo was in extremely nerfed state.

An extremely nerfed Ichigo would still one shot Yamamoto, so no matter what your roundabout reasoning says, Ichigo is still superior and always will be. A bear without fangs still has claws. Uryu fighting this Ichigo and not only hurting but threatening his life are better feats than Yama will ever do. Renji's full power is also limited too, he can't use it willy nilly like Ichigo, it's only one move/instance where he's that strong. It's not like he's that powerful overall.

As I've addressed above the feats and scaling is questionable. Don't worry anime itself will debunk such nonsensial notion.

The anime might go and debunk this if it wants, but your condescending tone won't change anything, Pierrot and Kubo will DECIDE that, so until then, this "nonsensical notion" is truth.

 

[Adam1396]

We don't know if this took his power, this is headcanon until it's proven true.

They visibly shared their power and yhwach's statement implies so.

A fraction of her power huh? That fraction is still 2-C, because an even weaker fraction shook the three worlds. I don't see how this changes anything.

I know

She was still in her Bankai. She wasn't nerfed to Black Ant level. Getting one shotted is purely showing superiority.

She doesn’t have to be nerfed to black ant level to be one shotted by uryu. Or are you implying uryu is slightly above black ant level!!
She was incaped and paralyzed. Any gotei captain would have one shotted her in such state.

He couldn't tap into that power becausenof Zangetsu.

Acting like Ichigo wasn't in a similar or possibly even worse mindset.

Doesn’t change what I said. He is a fodder despite having transcendent level energy dormant inside him.

Aizen was also, you know, not that strong yet. That Aizen wasn't as strong as the one Ichigo fought when he left the Dangai.

This doesn’t affect my point in the slightest.

An extremely nerfed Ichigo would still one shot Yamamoto, so no matter what your roundabout reasoning says, Ichigo is still superior and always will be. A bear without fangs still has claws. Uryu fighting this Ichigo and not only hurting but threatening his life are better feats than Yama will ever do. Renji's full power is also limited too, he can't use it willy nilly like Ichigo, it's only one move/instance where he's that strong. It's not like he's that powerful overall.

An extremely nerfed ichigo can be heavily damaged by even vice captain level.

The anime might go and debunk this if it wants, but your condescending tone won't change anything, Pierrot and Kubo will DECIDE that, so until then, this "nonsensical notion" is truth.

Ok go ahead and try make that happen. I will debunk it any day not that I would have to since it would be contradicted later (more like your takes would be outright proven wrong).
That's still nonsensial.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

They visibly shared their power and yhwach's statement implies so.

Again, this is speculation, we don't know that until we are given confirmation. That scene could just be flowery language. Plus the other Schutstaffel aren't as strong as Uryu feat wise so far, and were not implied to have gotten stronger when Yhwach freed them.

She doesn’t have to be nerfed to black ant level to be one shotted by uryu. Or are you implying uryu is slightly above black ant level!!
She was incaped and paralyzed. Any gotei captain would have one shotted her in such state.

I'm not even going to entertain this. Yamamoto wouldn't scratch Bankai Senjumaru even with her arms and legs cut off, and that state she was in is not as bad as you're blowing it up to be. By that logic since the Soul King is completely paralyzed and already mutilted, Soi Fon could destory him. She is literal INFINITIES above him in power, and she wasn't paralyzed and incapacitated, she was restrained.

Doesn’t change what I said. He is a fodder despite having transcendent level energy dormant inside him.

"Dormant" so he didn't have it. There. He wasn't transcendant, case and point.

This doesn’t affect my point in the slightest.

Yes, it does because you are claiming base Aizen could still beat current Renji. That Aizen wasn't transcendant nor SK level, Ichigo not scaling to him only is applicable to before he reached that state, at that point Yama did hurt him, and he isn't transcendant.

An extremely nerfed ichigo can be heavily damaged by even vice captain level.

You would need context to how nerfed. Ichigo being explicitly nerfed to that level with direct statements of such could be the case, but not one that upscales from Yhwach without quantification or any literal statement. A captain-level Candice got her attack no-sold by an Ichigo holding back far more than he did against Uryu, so I don't see why a vice captain could.

Ok go ahead and try make that happen. I will debunk it any day not that I would have to since it would be contradicted later

I won't be making that happen, you'll have to take that up with Arc when he does revisions later. I'll be there to debunk your points as well if I wish to.

(more like your takes would be outright proven wrong).

Yet to be seen buddy, you could be proven just as if not more wrong than me as you claim.

That's still nonsensial.

Refer to the comment about the logic behind Renji's scaling. He has multiple different ways he could be logically backed up for bring that strong. Yamamoto nor Aizen never had that kind of training. Is it a little weird? Maybe. Completely nonsense? No, as there are justifications.

Now it's 3am for me here so I'm hitting the sack.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Q&A Klub Outside

Q: When Hitsugaya faced Aizen in the Central Execution Grounds, Aizen defeated Hitsugaya but did not attack Unohana or Isane and instead moved to the Sokyoku.

Was it because Aizen thought he could not win against Unohana?

A: I don’t think he believed he couldn’t win, but he was certain it would require a great deal of effort.

what question is this? Find the raws or it didn't happen

 

[Peterdenman156]

what question is this? Find the raws or it didn't happen

As l understand it, Kubo intended to convey that Aizen at that time would have had a fairly difficult time fighting Unohana, so he avoided an unnecessary battle.


Unohana could probably hold her own against Base Aizen, but she wouldn't win.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

As l understand it, Kubo intended to convey that Aizen at that time would have had a fairly difficult time fighting Unohana, so he avoided an unnecessary battle.


Unohana could probably hold her own against Base Aizen, but she wouldn't win.

it's a fake comment, there's a 0.01% chance it's real

Thoughts on this? the Bleach Wiki has always had a hate boner for Narita's novels

• The novel notably contradicts the anime's version of the Soul King's history; in the novel the Soul King was betrayed by the Five Noble Ancestors, then sealed away and mutilated, and then the worlds were separated when the ancestors forcibly used the Soul King's powers.[47] In the anime, the Soul King separated the worlds by himself and was then dismembered, without anyone aside from Ichibē Hyōsube being present.[1]

 

[Peterdenman156]

it's a fake comment, there's a 0.01% chance it's real

Nah, I got it from the latest Q&A in Klub Outside. Of course, it's not a fake question.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Renji got some of yall crying

 

[Damage3245]

Renji got some of yall crying

Did they forget? Renji has been training to be able to no-diff Aizen.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’ll say it once again tho. Can yall stop coping so hard we have so many more episodes to go, so much more content to get, so much potential for further extrapolation right. Maybe it gets revealed that despite Uryu’s bravado he was holding back, and all yall that don’t like Renji being strong are vindicated, maybe Renji ends up being just that strong. Who tf cares, stop whining like the end times is coming because the anime introduced something new that conflicts with your current headcanon. It’s just not that deep.

 

[Adam1396]

Again, this is speculation, we don't know that until we are given confirmation. That scene could just be flowery language. Plus the other Schutstaffel aren't as strong as Uryu feat wise so far, and were not implied to have gotten stronger when Yhwach freed them..

Flower language? So you have to go with universal excuse.

I'm not even going to entertain this. Yamamoto wouldn't scratch Bankai Senjumaru even with her arms and legs cut off, and that state she was in is not as bad as you're blowing it up to be. By that logic since the Soul King is completely paralyzed and already mutilted, Soi Fon could destory him. She is literal INFINITIES above him in power, and she wasn't paralyzed and incapacitated, she was restrained.

Then you are totally misunderstanding how antithesis work. Senjumary was incaped and paralized, things switched with senju.
Yeah I'm gonna make bambi scales to zaraki.

"Dormant" so he didn't have it. There. He wasn't transcendant, case and point.

Yes, it does because you are claiming base Aizen could still beat current Renji. That Aizen wasn't transcendant nor SK level, Ichigo not scaling to him only is applicable to before he reached that state, at that point Yama did hurt him, and he isn't transcendant.

So you succesfully failed to address that argument. Ichigo also has dormant reio tier power now. He is not always using that level of power.

You would need context to how nerfed. Ichigo being explicitly nerfed to that level with direct statements of such could be the case, but not one that upscales from Yhwach without quantification or any literal statement. A captain-level Candice got her attack no-sold by an Ichigo holding back far more than he did against Uryu, so I don't see why a vice captain could.

His getsuga only negated candice's attack while it should have overwhelmed by mergin.
Guess now candice scales to ichigo as well by your logic since she parried with ichigo too.
I'm sure we can find a lot more case about holding back and not having direct statement about holding back.

I won't be making that happen, you'll have to take that up with Arc when he does revisions later. I'll be there to debunk your points as well if I wish to.

Yet to be seen buddy, you could be proven just as if not more wrong than me as you claim.

Refer to the comment about the logic behind Renji's scaling. He has multiple different ways he could be logically backed up for bring that strong. Yamamoto nor Aizen never had that kind of training. Is it a little weird? Maybe. Completely nonsense? No, as there are justifications.

Now it's 3am for me here so I'm hitting the sack.

That's not the only way for me to debunk such takes.
Not that their upgrade would hurt me at all. I will just make more upgrade of more characters using your threads as basis and I don’t care who makes the post. It will become like dbs.

 

[PerezosoUlixes]

I’ll say it once again tho. Can yall stop coping so hard we have so many more episodes to go, so much more content to get, so much potential for further extrapolation right. Maybe it gets revealed that despite Uryu’s bravado he was holding back, and all yall that don’t like Renji being strong are vindicated, maybe Renji ends up being just that strong. Who tf cares, stop whining like the end times is coming because the anime introduced something new that conflicts with your current headcanon. It’s just not that deep.

Yeah, people are jumping on conclusions nobody is certain as of now. Everybody should just wait until this or next Cour ends, then we'll see if everything makes sense or not.

Just to emphasize something, Renji doesn't have any feat or involvement in CFYOW, so as far as we know him scaling above some characters/captains wouldn't change anything.

 

[Ped2018]

Just saw the Unohana Q&A... Raven really won

 

[Tyri456]

Or we just upscale the previous guys, its not something unreasonable.

base yama, base aizen and unohana should get scaled as well to shutara shaking, urahara as well likely, those 3 > are renji post RG and Byakuya.

Bankai Yama (SS buster) > Shikai Yama (bit weaker thank Bankai) > bankai renji < Shutara Shaking < Shutara Full Power

If we follow that Bankai Yama is a dimension buster, then shikai yama would be still extremely close to that, making people scaling to shikai Yama hell impressive.

 

[Blallooo]

Just saw the Unohana Q&A... Raven really won

It doesn't change a lot tbh. Instead of getting slammed in 5 seconds she gets slammed in 5 minutes. Aizen still gaps