BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Guacamolefletcher]

You mean the ranking based on reiatsu, not overall combat ability?

This is also not what they're ranked on.

So you'd have Ulquiorra, who's first release is capable of putting him at the 4th place, and believe his second release wouldn't boost that status?
Would you mind proving Ulquiorra was including his secondary transformation in the rankings, which he kept hidden from Aizen?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this is a fallacious type of argument known as "appeal to ignorance," where you assume your position { that being that the transformation isn't counted and that it wouldn't be included because it's a "secret" } is correct until proven otherwise.

Here is a simple scaling chain:

Yammy < Byakuya (Hueco Mundo Saga) < Byakuya (post-training) >~ Shunsui (TYBW) = Shunsui (FKT) >~ Starrk

I don't want to get into a huge debate about this but I will just say that it seems self-evident that statement was made without taking into account Yammy's Resurrecciónor Ulquiorra's second Resurrección. At the time Ulquiorra was ranked 4th and he would've just been referring to there being a 3rd, 2nd and 1st Espada above him.

Ulquiorra isn't confirmed to have known Yammy's resureccion power

 

[Hellscream]

This is also not what they're ranked on.

No it's not lol, it's literally stated to be based on their reiatsu.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this is a fallacious type of argument known as "appeal to ignorance," where you assume your position { that being that the transformation isn't counted and that it wouldn't be included because it's a "secret" } is correct until proven otherwise.

It's not an assumption, it's directly statement, which makes your entire "ranking system" invalid, since the character you're arguing against doesn't even have his most powerful form included, as it was hidden.

Ulquiorra isn't confirmed to have known Yammy's resureccion power

And none of them know of Ulquiorra's powers either

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

No it's not lol, it's literally stated to be based on their reiatsu.

Find me one statement saying "reiatsu." They say "spiritual power," which = power in a spiritual being, and "combat power" / "fighting strength."

And none of them know of Ulquiorra's powers either

Yet they are considered greater than Ulquiorra's, and Databooks confirm that Starrk's sheer resureccion is worthy of the rank "1st espada."

 

[Hellscream]

Find me one statement saying "reiatsu"


Yet they are considered greater than Ulquiorra's, and Databooks confirm that Starrk's sheer resureccion is worthy of the rank "1st espada."

Honestly, you should just rewatch the arrancar arc in it's entirety

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Honestly, you should just rewatch the arrancar arc in it's entirety

This is a type of fallacious argument called "shifting the burden of proof," where you shift the burden of disproving your claim to me, when it is your burden to prove it in the first place. You made the claim "they are simply ranked on reiatsu," and now it's your job to prove that.

 

[Hellscream]

This is a type of fallacious argument called "shifting the burden of proof," where you shift the burden of disproving your claim to me, when it is your burden to prove it in the first place. You made the claim "they are simply ranked on reiatsu," and now it's your job to prove that.

Hush now, time to rewatch the arrancar arc

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Hush now, time to rewatch the arrancar arc

"ranked according to their spiritual powers." spiritual power =/= reiatsu.

 

[Hellscream]

This dude fr?

 

[Damage3245]

If neither of you are going to convince the other here, maybe just drop it for now and be content in your own interpretations.

 

[Hellscream]

Brother, just stop while you're at it.

You don't even know Reiryoku, which is the source of reiatsu.
The higher your Reiryoku, the more reiatsu you exert.

Just rewatch the entirety of bleach at this point.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well, looks like that if Renji is getting upgraded should over character above him be the same?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Well, looks like that if Renji is getting upgraded should over character above him be the same?

Depends on what other new scaling we get. But if the anime makes other characters above him, then yes they probably would get upgraded.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Depends on what other new scaling we get. But if the anime makes other characters above him, then yes they probably would get upgraded.

Don't tell me that Kenpachi or Byakuya will be below Renji for example

 

[LordTracer]

Don't tell me that Kenpachi or Byakuya will be below Renji for example

If they don’t have the feats to scale above him, then they won’t scale above him.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Don't tell me that Kenpachi or Byakuya will be below Renji for example

Kenpachi still has CFYOW scaling, but TYBW Kenny's scaling will hinge on how the anime plays out.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Don't tell me that Kenpachi or Byakuya will be below Renji for example

It's possible.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I think some of you are forgetting that Bankai Renji (almost) fought against Soul King Yhwach in the manga. It's possible that that still happens in the anime, but this time, Renji actually fights him, which would automatically put Bankai Renji above almost every character in the franchise.

Anyway, I should stop here because Arc is right, we just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Don't tell me that Kenpachi or Byakuya will be below Renji for example

We will have to wait and see

 

[Malekith]

Orihime, when separated from Ichigo, will probably find Renji and the others almost dead? It's the only explanation I see about them coming back, in this all Renji and the others find Gerard and the fight eventually happens

 

[PerezosoUlixes]

Baraggan rank 1, Ulquiorra rank 2, Yammy rank 3, Starrk rank 4

Starrk / yammy can swap places depending on which one you believe is stronger

Ah, maybe i should call baraggan rank 0 instead

Ulquiorra???

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

According to Cien, who has knowledge on all the Espada, the 3 strongest things (excluding himself and Aizen) in the Espada were Yammy’s full power Res, Starrk’s wolves, and Barragan’s Respira. So we know Yammy, Starrk, and Barragan all have techniques or forms above Ulquiorra (consistent with Ulq saying 3 people are above him). Whether or not you think Halibel beats SE Ulq is highly debatable, honestly it’s a pretty good in verse debate because I don’t think there’s a clear cut answer, both have good arguments.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, there'll always be a degree of interpretation to it too.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

According to Cien, who has knowledge on all the Espada, the 3 strongest things (excluding himself and Aizen) in the Espada were Yammy’s full power Res, Starrk’s wolves, and Barragan’s Respira. So we know Yammy, Starrk, and Barragan all have techniques or forms above Ulquiorra (consistent with Ulq saying 3 people are above him). Whether or not you think Halibel beats SE Ulq is highly debatable, honestly it’s a pretty good in verse debate because I don’t think there’s a clear cut answer, both have good arguments.

I personally think Halibel is above Segunada Etapa Ulquiorra, but that's just me.

 

[Peterdenman156]

I’m not sure if there’s anything interesting in this, but I got it from Klub Outside. Hopefully, it’ll be useful.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I looked back at Ichigo's W/L rate post-TBIM and I can proudly say that people saying Ichigo is carried by genetics is on something.

1. Ichigo vs Bambis
Conditions: Ichigo held back
Result: Inconclusive due to interference from Yhwach, would've obviously won if he was trying to

2. Ichigo vs Yhwach (Round 2)
Conditions: Yhwach did not have the Almighty (first fight), none for fight 2
Result: Ichigo won fight 1 mid diff, round 2 Yhwach won low diff

3. Ichigo vs Uryu
Conditions: Ichigo was mentally nerfed
Result: Uryu won mid diff, although was implied to be inferior to Ichigo stat-wise and could've lost had he gone all out.

These fights have yet to be animated, so the outcomes are not set in stone.

4. Ichigo vs Askin
Conditions: None
Result: Askin won low diff via The Deathdealing

5. Ichigo vs Yhwach (Round 3)
Conditions: Ichigo had help from Orihime and planned to use Yhwach's reiatsu to awaken Horn of Salvation
Result: Yhwach won low-mid diff (He needed to use The Almighty to break his Zanpakuto, however, he very quickly dispatched Ichigo)

Ichigo vs Yhwach (Final Round)
Conditions: Aizen was occupying Yhwach with Kyoka Suigetsu and Uryu had the silver arrow
Result: Ichigo won mid diff (Had he not have anything go in his favor, he would've lost just the same as he did before)

Some people would look at this and still get mad because of Ichigo losing. You just can't win with some fanbases.

 

[PerezosoUlixes]

I personally think Halibel is above Segunada Etapa Ulquiorra, but that's just me.

I think they should be at least relative but I would see her as the stronger one by context and statements.

Also, I just believe that every Espada should be equal or stronger than the precedent one in Resurrección. As an example, Nnoitra would be equal or stronger in Base than Grimmjow's Panthera. I could explain all the reasons behind this scaling chain of mine but I'm too lazy as of now.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Btw, why isn’t isshin 4-A for his showings against second fusion Aizen?

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Btw, why isn’t isshin 4-A for his showings against second fusion Aizen?

Databooks state his attacks were in vain

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Kisuke gets dunked on let's be real

New Episode means nothing to me, Uryu was holding back like a mf and Renji gonna be a bum once more

 

[Raito_Utopia]

Q&A Klub Outside

Q: When Hitsugaya faced Aizen in the Central 46 Compound, Aizen defeated Hitsugaya but did not attack Unohana or Isane and instead moved to the Sokyoku.

Was it because Aizen thought he could not win against Unohana?

A: I don’t think he believed he couldn’t win, but he was certain it would require a great deal of effort.

Oh yeah , some fanboy really think Aizen was scared of Unohana and cant win against her , finally take thier L.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Q&A Klub Outside

Q: When Hitsugaya faced Aizen in the Central 46 Compound, Aizen defeated Hitsugaya but did not attack Unohana or Isane and instead moved to the Sokyoku.

Was it because Aizen thought he could not win against Unohana?

A: I don’t think he believed he couldn’t win, but he was certain it would require a great deal of effort.

Bro exaggerating her abilities

I love my girl Unohana but Aizen would body that hag no cap

But fr though you think this can be used to argue that Arrancar Arc Base Aizen is stronger than Soul Society self?

Might make sense if you think about him prepping for the war plus shoving the Hogyoku in his chest

 

[Adam1396]

I think some of you are forgetting that Bankai Renji (almost) fought against Soul King Yhwach in the manga. It's possible that that still happens in the anime, but this time, Renji actually fights him, which would automatically put Bankai Renji above almost every character in the franchise.

Anyway, I should stop here because Arc is right, we just have to wait and see what happens.

Fighting him doesn’t automatically put renji up there. I'm warning you. Don't follow that route for the better.

Yama above other, each sz member above gotei all would still stand. It's just uryu and renji's feat gonna be revalued.
Instead Gremmy 's scaking might become parameter for others

 

[AppleLord]

Klub Outside
Q660
十の入れ替わりって藍染が決めているのでしょうか？それとも剣ハみたく決闘で勝った方に藍染が数字を与えるとか？

A660
どちらのパターンもあります。

Translation ChatGTP

Q660
Did Aizen change the members of the Espada at his own discretion? Or, like the title of Kenpachi, did Aizen assign the number to the winner of a duel?

A660
Both options are possible.

You telling me Yammy fought Ulquiorra and everyone else for the position of Espada 0 but for some reason lets himself be abuse and spank around by Ulquiorra? I wouldn’t be surprised if these two were doing the nasty bend over prison style in secret. YammyxUlquiorra must abusive relationship in Latino origin in Bleach.

 

[AppleLord]

Wtf?

I’m about to end this man’s whole carrier…

 

[Adam1396]

New Episode means nothing to me, Uryu was holding back like a mf and Renji gonna be a bum once more

Albeit he shouldn’t be so high like people are arguing now.
But Renji isn’t bam anymore.
Though weaker, he should still be able to compete against high tier captains.

 

[M_Animefan]

Wtf?

This is definitely fake! Don’t believe anything on twitter unless kubo confirms it in an official interview.

 

[Ped2018]

Y'all are ignoring this...

 

[Naeblis495]

Even if it's true ,it change nothing.

We already knew that new scenes would be in the anime that wouldn't be in the manga, we already knew that the staff were giving Kubo's ideas and he decide to include them or not .

As long as Kubo keep overseeing things, TYBW anime is still canon.

 

[Deceived3596]

Kurbo cotraadickt da animu animu nt cannon anemor yll beachers jst copiuming

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Fighting him doesn’t automatically put renji up there.

That depends on how the fight goes.

I'm warning you. Don't follow that route for the better.

I'm just letting people know the possibility exists, which is why we should wait and see.

Yama above other, each sz member above gotei all would still stand.

That depends on what happens (plus, we already have Kenpachi is Can't Fear Your Own World being far stronger than Yamamoto and Squad 0).

It's just uryu and renji's feat gonna be revalued.

Why would Uryu's feats be reevaluated? His scaling pretty consistenly puts him above Yamamoto and above Squad 0.

For Renji, we just have to wait and see.

Instead Gremmy 's scaking might become parameter for others

That would be fun.