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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Don’t forget the stability page made not specifically cause of Bleach lol. I’ve seen many people outside of the wiki that are spectating this notice how sus it is. All of a sudden they’re a problem.

Ive yet to see a single other character that’s rated this way be brought up in a CRT. I’d expect to see something if it was such a glaring issue ignored for years apparently.
Click to expand...
I don't even need to see another character being subjected to this (there wont likely be any given all ot was for bleach)

I mean is very easy to see:

Upgrade gets accepted

Later like 1 day later a new thread appears (made by kukui) talking about stabilization

Then staff memebers saying they have talked on private

And then the thread for downgrade appears
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
I called that shit before the thread got to page 2
Click to expand...
Excuse me?
HalfWeirdBanteng-small.gif

AppleLord said:
I got Almighty from my friend for 1 second, it told me:

1. Matthew is making a LONG CRT to downgrade the recent upgrades.
2. A lot of BS that can't be answered will be used to “debunk” the upgrades.
3. Damage is going to do a flashy-read and say “I agree with Matthew.”
4. After an hour or so, Damage 3-4 mod friends come and say “Matthew makes sense”.
5. Bleach is getting downgraded back to Damage’s CRT.
6. A rule will be spam a lot “Don’t try to upgrade Bleach based on the XXXX. The topic has already been done to death and debunked.

GG ultimate win! Almighty sees everything! But you can't prevent the Mod arrow!

g04vlpdm6vu21.png

Post in thread 'bleach TS ichigo CRT'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-ts-ichigo-crt.110946/post-3520587
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Arc7Kuroi said:
Yes because the Staff totally know Bleach well.

Not like we got people like Mitch admitting to not knowing the details of Bleach scaling that well. <-Nothing is wrong with this, but prolly shouldn't participate if you're admitting that.

Not like we got Damage arguing that lies are truths. Almost like he did this before...

Not like staff here are known for a bias against the HST or anything. It's the reason the Naruto thread is lowkey dead.

Not like ex-staff like Matt argued off of blatant falsehoods of Garganta being outer space.

The only people who think the staff are an accurate authority on Bleach are staff/mods + Kukui themselves.

Notice how the thread (outside of Warren bless his damned heart that man's a peach) is Staff + Kukui vs Regulars.

I've got SethTheProgrammer agreeing that by VSBW standards I'm correct and we all know that Seth can outdebate any of us here. I'd get clapped in a debate with him for sure lol, as would every regular and staff I've met here (it's of no offense it's just truth, go try and debate him).

I get people dming on the daily mentioning staff bias.

So forrrrrrrrrrgiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive me when I say I can't take this comment seriously. There's such a disconnect between staff and regulars here.


Which by default means that my arguments will come under more scrutiny and it means by default that staff are less likely support me, regardless of the argument.


Ehhhh it can be debated whether the universal split feat is universal via semantics, but by this wiki's standards I agree. Nothing is ever not up for debate, such is the nature of fiction.
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So everyone who is disagreeing with you is just biased and don't know Bleach? Good to know
 
I am honestly annoyed by the ad nauseum. Basically every argument being provided for the downgrade is entirely based on "well it could be this" while not proving that whatever possibility is brought up is more likely than the tier 2 argument. If there is a 99% chance of something being the case, you don't dismiss it out of hand just because there is a 1% chance it isn't.

We also still have Kukui arguing that any fragment of tier 2 is tier 2 but then immediately says a lesser degree of tier 2 can't be tier 2. You can't have your cake and eat it. If you agree with the cosmology being a tier 2 construct, you agree with the stabilization/quakes being tier 2.
Logical conclusion is that the quakes are tier 2 by Kukui's logic, regardless of how long it takes.

People saying this doesn't scale to physicals because they are using this energy for the stabilization.
Logical conclusion is that his body can survive Tier 2 levels of energy that it constantly outputs.

"Only the Almighty scales to Tier 2"
Almighty is consistently shown to scale to the stats of the god tiers.

"Base Yhwach = Almighty Yhwach"
  • Jugram exists. Before the 9 years of strength up (where he is regaining strength the whole time), he cannot open his eyes (use the Almighty) because he would not have the power to control it entirely.
  • Ichibe tags base Yhwach.
  • Almighty Yhwach blitzes Ichibe and instantly injures him despite just getting bopped tf around before he opened his eyes
Logical conclusion is that Yhwach got stronger when he regained the Almighty.

And here I just peeped the downgrade thread and Arc covered most of this but I'll still post it anyway
 
I'm being filled on VSBW lore (about as cringe as it sounds) on LordAizenSama and Kuuichigo, about this apparent "Bleach war" that happened on the site before and how it led to loads of supporters leaving. Which I see some of that (perhaps exaggerated tale) happening again, good people leaving leaving the site, staff being removed for not bending at the knee, other staff requesting demotions due to being ashamed of their behavior, staff vs regulars being a common occurrence in HST threads, everyone viewing from outside the site thinking it's sus as **** to the point of streaming multiple times over it, double standards out the wazoo (regulars can't bring up beaten to death arguments like ETSO, but staff can with the soul cycle), etc etc.

It's so blatantly clear that staff have an unwarranted pride as well. I clap damage on the "controls soul cycle" argument being a lie and instead of conceding he just ghosts (classic damage), meanwhile I've conceded to arguments here and have admitted that my viewpoint was incomplete or wrong (see duedate's point on the realms being separate space-times). Swallow your meek pride, it's a ******* fictional character debating site lmao, no one is going to give a **** if you say "shit I wasn't aware of that I concede". If anything admitting your concessions as opposed to ghosting will help you gain credit as an impartial human. No disagreeing with me doesn't make you wrong either for all the staff that like to twist my words.

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
So everyone who is disagreeing with you is just biased and don't know Bleach? Good to know
Click to expand...
Stupid shit like this is said to as to create a straw man to fight against. If he read what I said he'd know that I think staff are biased based on what they say off site and that they've admitted themselves. You don't know Bleach by your own admission tho, that's on you.

You staff are normal people like the rest of us and far more people have agreed with than that have agreed with staff, I win the democratic vote, the only reason I don't win here is as Ant put it in a DB/DBZ/DBS thread "only staff opinion matters".
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Snip
Click to expand...
I said most of the staff don't know about Bleach. I agreed with you on that.
And yes you get more scrutiny but that doesn't mean you're right and we're just wrong.
Like the main staff member that's always arguing against you, Damage, he's very blatantly just someone who gives everything large amounts of scrutiny. And while that's annoying as hell to deal with, it's also not because he just has something against your verse.
And yes, several changes were made because of Bleach's upgrade. But this isn't just a bleach thing.
Just currently Bleach is at the center of it.
Arc7Kuroi said:
The fact that bias against Bleach is a reason at all is unacceptable when staff parade themselves as unbiased authorities of fiction.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but, that's just a thing that's gonna happen no matter what. Everyone has bias and lets that influence what they do. And I don't think any staff parades themselves as unbias. Some definitely don't care two cents about Bleach, some definitely don't want it to be so high tier, but all of them have bias. Some clearly wore it on their sleeves and others have been quite subtle for it but you're just going to have to deal with it. Because you yourself also hold bias. Everyone here holds a bias one way or the other. That's just what happens when we have supporters and non-supporters. And we often have to meet in a middle ground, especially for verses with large and active communities like bleach.

Like Arc, you've been openly very hostile throughout a large majority of this entire event. Which naturally makes staff members not want to deal with you. And that does no help at all to your argument. I can see why and I understand where you're coming from, but you've been doing yourself no favors. In fact, this entire thread for the last week of so, hasn't really been doing the downgrades any favor. Generally, hostility and insults towards all of staff just doesn't look good. You're not the only one, as Matt was quite antagonizing throughout the very start of it and towards the middle.

It's just, you gotta be willing to work us if you want us to work with you.

I personally don't hold too much against you, just because I've only just become staff and because I'm kinda just used to interacting with you at this point, but you've kinda helped to further sour the relationship between bleach supporters and staff on this site.

That's how I look at all of this.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I'm being filled on VSBW lore (about as cringe as it sounds) on LordAizenSama and Kuuichigo, about this apparent "Bleach war" that happened on the site before and how it led to loads of supporters leaving. Which I see some of that (perhaps exaggerated tale) happening again, good people leaving leaving the site, staff being removed for not bending at the knee, other staff requesting demotions due to being ashamed of their behavior, staff vs regulars being a common occurrence in HST threads, everyone viewing from outside the site thinking it's sus as **** to the point of streaming multiple times over it, double standards out the wazoo (regulars can't bring up beaten to death arguments like ETSO, but staff can with the soul cycle), etc etc.
Click to expand...
I'ma give you a little advice before I sleep and this goes for everyone else.

Drop this discussion and don't listen to anyone who is talking to you about it cause they're wrong. Only two people on the wiki know the full context of this with certain staff being misinformed even years after to this day. The only other user who knows doesn't talk to any of you.

Users have gotten in trouble discussing it. Pretty sure only like 10 people can discuss it from that era and not be banned for a bit.

Have a good night y'all and don't get too worked up.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I'm sorry but, that's just a thing that's gonna happen no matter what. Everyone has bias and lets that influence what they do. And I don't think any staff parades themselves as unbias. Some definitely don't care two cents about Bleach, some definitely don't want it to be so high tier, but all of them have bias. Some clearly wore it on their sleeves and others have been quite subtle for it but you're just going to have to deal with it. Because you yourself also hold bias. Everyone here holds a bias one way or the other. That's just what happens when we have supporters and non-supporters. And we often have to meet in a middle ground, especially for verses with large and active communities like bleach.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying bias is wrong, but if you're going to admit to bias, then don't claim to be impartial, simple.

Duedate8898 said:
Like Arc, you've been openly very hostile throughout a large majority of this entire event.
Click to expand...
When I've been dealing with arguments like "gremmy imagined it so it's not real" and "garganta is outer space" and "sk stabilizes soul cycle" for weeks on end, I get heated, hell I get naturally heated.

When I'm hit with an entire new rule page just to "debunk" my argument, then accused of bullying staff into submission after in the same thread they admit that it went super smooth, and am shown screenshots of them scheming to downgrade Bleach behind my back and am told "my lies will be exposed", it becomes very hard to enter the thread without hostility.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I said most of the staff don't know about Bleach. I agreed with you on that.
And yes you get more scrutiny but that doesn't mean you're right and we're just wrong.
Like the main staff member that's always arguing against you, Damage, he's very blatantly just someone who gives everything large amounts of scrutiny. And while that's annoying as hell to deal with, it's also not because he just has something against your verse.
And yes, several changes were made because of Bleach's upgrade. But this isn't just a bleach thing.
Just currently Bleach is at the center of it.

I'm sorry but, that's just a thing that's gonna happen no matter what. Everyone has bias and lets that influence what they do. And I don't think any staff parades themselves as unbias. Some definitely don't care two cents about Bleach, some definitely don't want it to be so high tier, but all of them have bias. Some clearly wore it on their sleeves and others have been quite subtle for it but you're just going to have to deal with it. Because you yourself also hold bias. Everyone here holds a bias one way or the other. That's just what happens when we have supporters and non-supporters. And we often have to meet in a middle ground, especially for verses with large and active communities like bleach.

Like Arc, you've been openly very hostile throughout a large majority of this entire event. Which naturally makes staff members not want to deal with you. And that does no help at all to your argument. I can see why and I understand where you're coming from, but you've been doing yourself no favors. In fact, this entire thread for the last week of so, hasn't really been doing the downgrades any favor. Generally, hostility and insults towards all of staff just doesn't look good. You're not the only one, as Matt was quite antagonizing throughout the very start of it and towards the middle.

It's just, you gotta be willing to work us if you want us to work with you.

I personally don't hold too much against you, just because I've only just become staff and because I'm kinda just used to interacting with you at this point, but you've kinda helped to further sour the relationship between bleach supporters and staff on this site.

That's how I look at all of this.
Click to expand...
This is a 2-sided thing, actually, if the staff is like cotton candy, it's not like they're being unfriendly. The staff is extremely tough and says things that no one watching Bleach can understand. If someone still tells and insists on something that is obviously wrong and is known to the public, there is inevitably an explosion of anger, which leads to rude behavior. I am not saying that being rude is also right, but the staff is very effective in this. Before joining the wiki, I read a lot of discussions between management and Bleach fans but I always saw a hypocrisy. To give an example of this, 2 3 months of damage opened 3 extremely large bleach crt. There was absolutely no one who agreed with Damage, everyone was against him, but he was the only authority in the crt and all the crt he opened was according to his own request, regardless of what the majority said. held. There was only one mode for the bleach drop crt at the time, but there was no problem, but exactly 5 officials spoke in the Bleach upgrade crt and everyone agreed, I can throw their writings. 1 mode is enough for the drop, but there were 4 modes for the upgrade. They say it is not counted because the number of mods is low. I'm just saying what I see
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I'm not saying bias is wrong, but if you're going to admit to bias, then don't claim to be impartial, simple.


When I've been dealing with arguments like "gremmy imagined it so it's not real" and "garganta is outer space" and "sk stabilizes soul cycle" for weeks on end, I get heated, hell I get naturally heated.

When I'm hit with an entire new rule page just to "debunk" my argument, then accused of bullying staff into submission after in the same thread they admit that it went super smooth, and am shown screenshots of them scheming to downgrade Bleach behind my back and am told "my lies will be exposed", it becomes very hard to enter the thread without hostility.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone with bias has really claimed to be impartial. Some staff members actually straight up don't care. As is often when there is as many verses as are here. But with most of the staff you've been arguing they've made it quite clear their own personal bias.

And honestly, that thread for the bleach upgrade went by very fast and was very cluttered. However that same reason is why I didn't participate in it, and that's also why I will not rebuke your points on that matter. I only ever read a few bits of the thread and such so I honestly have no idea how it went, or anything like that so I can't speak on it and will not act like I did know what happened.

That page about stabilizing feats was made as a response to the bleach upgrade thread, very true. But that doesn't mean it's just there because all of the staff thinks Bleach doesn't deserve its rating. It's there because it brought up something that when staff thought about it, didn't make sense. It was a point that was brought up and then applied to the entire wiki. Just like what happened with dragonball and void standards a few months back (maybe a year.

And just to say, most big CRTs are planned out of threads and between the private messages of those who are planning them. That's not them planning behind your back, that's just standard CRT procedure.
AKUTO123 said:
This is a 2-sided thing, actually, if the staff is like cotton candy, it's not like they're being unfriendly. The staff is extremely tough and says things that no one watching Bleach can understand. If someone still tells and insists on something that is obviously wrong and is known to the public, there is inevitably an explosion of anger, which leads to rude behavior. I am not saying that being rude is also right, but the staff is very effective in this. Before joining the wiki, I read a lot of discussions between management and Bleach fans but I always saw a hypocrisy. To give an example of this, 2 3 months of damage opened 3 extremely large bleach crt. There was absolutely no one who agreed with Damage, everyone was against him, but he was the only authority in the crt and all the crt he opened was according to his own request, regardless of what the majority said. held. There was only one mode for the bleach drop crt at the time, but there was no problem, but exactly 5 officials spoke in the Bleach upgrade crt and everyone agreed, I can throw their writings. 1 mode is enough for the drop, but there were 4 modes for the upgrade. They say it is not counted because the number of mods is low. I'm just saying what I see
Click to expand...
I was there at those threads actually. The downgrades to speed for bleach and I can say that several normal members agreed with Damage. Not just that but there was that same hostility and rudeness that's present here now even back then. He wasn't the only authority, and when staff memebers came to that thread that agree not just with damage but with his side of the argument. He wasn't always right for sure, and in fact had to change his argument as just new things were discussed and such but it wasn't just him by himself.
 
What the **** is this?

There is a reason why I said I didn't want the contents of the current large CRT flooding into this thread and this is why.

So much of what I just read through is nonsense.

These massive leaps in logic to try and claim that the scaling of the God Tiers somehow backpedals and makes every character Low 2-C is nonsense, especially since they only scale with one another in specific forms where they demonstrably have massive increases in power and are clearly beyond the rest of the verse in raw power.

The idea that all or any staff is ever without bias or are ever completely impartial is also ridiculous, but with that being said, your bias should never get in the way of making a proper judgment. I despise Pokemon with a passion, but I would never question the legitimacy of its God tier's tiering (In fact, I think they should be tiered higher). There is a limit to how much your bias should be allowed to cloud your judgement, whether or not this applies to the staff members that are apart of the Bleach Downgrade CRTs, I can't say without a thorough examination (And I don't want to hear your opinions on the matter, either). But whatever the case, no staff member is claiming to be completely impartial, and if any are, they are either moronic or lying.

This whole debate is just massive levels of impenitent toxicity, but the blame is not solely on one side. No fire can exist without a source of fuel to keep the flame alive and for it to grow. And it has grown and been sustained for a while now.

The staff has clearly shown some form of bias against Bleach, this was freely admitted in this very thread by a staff member, and I am not in favor of the way the current Bleach downgrade thread has been handled at all, and as a Bleach fan, I have been quite perturbed about this entire situation. But on the other hand, the amount of vitriol coming from regular members to the staff is borderline obsessive and needs to calm the **** down.

I completely agree with Arc's sentiments on the topic of Bleach's tiering, as I find the logic and reasonings of the opposition as impetuously made from poorly construed understandings of Bleach's lore and the feats/statements in question. And while I value Arc's friendship and his thoughts and I support his right as an individual to say and do what he wants (And to take the consequences of those actions and words), I can not condone the explicit petulant behavior that he has pushed with his responses to staff members as seen in this thread alone. This goes for many other Bleach supporters as well (And other non-staff members for other fanbases as well, it's not just Bleach fans, don't let this thread cloud your bias, there has been toxicity coming from all sorts of fandoms).


Pushing this, "Us vs. Them" mentality will only fuel a further divide between all members, and it is a detriment to the wiki, leaving it as a toxic waste of puerile screeching and nothing more. There is a reason why over a dozen members have left in recent times, many for these such reasons. As the person in the middle of this divide, a staff member who disagrees with the downgrade completely, I feel like I am being torn in two because of this divide, I want it to stop.


With all that said, please, keep the content about the CRTs for the CRTs, I want this thread to be peaceful and detached from that world, if I wanted to debate Bleach, I would be on the downgrade thread debunking all the facetious arguments of the endorsers of the downgrade, but I don't, so stop bringing them here, please. This is my second time pleading this. I would like for it to be my last.

To conclude, I heavily endorse that everyone takes a moment to look at themselves and reflect before continuing to post on this website. Take a small break, calm yourself, and respond to one another like adults.


Rant over, thanks for reading.

Goodbye.
 
Last edited:
Warren is right in assessing my behavior, I again am sorry for bringing members who don’t participate in the CRT into this.

As per Warren’s request, I’d like to ask anyone that wants to argue in thread to either pm me here (on my wall or dms not this thread lol) or on discord their arguments.
 
Last edited:
@Arc7Kuroi where is the scan that @IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 put on the Downgrade thread about Yhwach been sealed and his “Reiryoku” holds the worlds. Is very important. I wanted to download it but I can’t find it in the Downgrade thread. Did someone delete it by accident?
 
Yes, that thread is pretty old though, better leave it, I was planning to do a new one, together with some minor general abilities for other chrachters but never had the chance since all those important crt
 
question.

do you think a compromise might happen?

I see something like: Yhwach 3a or higher via the almighty (realm merging), but not scaling to physicals (not saying this is true)
 
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