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bleach TS ichigo CRT

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Along with the Hollow Zangetsu statement, there's also the case of Ichigo's hollow reiatsu being so thicc and heavy and powerful that his mask became fickle and broke easily in the FKT arc. Then there's the Yachiru statement that she released too much of Kenpachi's power and it tore off his arm. So being relative to your own power is consistently established all throughout the story of Bleach.

My suggestions based on this being:
  • Ichigo: At least [God Aizen] (no diffed God Aizen), likely 3-A, possibly Low 2-C with Mugetsu (Yhwach equated this power to TS Ichigo) | At least High 6-A (capable of dealing with Hikone), likely 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (Yhwach marveled over this power, cut and killed the Soul King)
    • Post-Dangai | True Shikai
  • Aizen: At least [something] (something is either his previous form or a calc or there might be a statement for him in CFYOW I dont remember)
    • God Aizen
  • Soul King: Unknown, likely 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (able to withstand his own reiatsu which keeps the cosmos from collapsing)
    • Weakened
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Along with the Hollow Zangetsu statement, there's also the case of Ichigo's hollow reiatsu being so thicc and heavy and powerful that his mask became fickle and broke easily in the FKT arc. Then there's the Yachiru statement that she released too much of Kenpachi's power and it tore off his arm. So being relative to your own power is consistently established all throughout the story of Bleach.

My suggestions based on this being:
  • Soul King: Unknown, likely 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (able to withstand his own reiatsu which keeps the cosmos from collapsing)
    • Weakened
Click to expand...
As recently sighted by that thread about stabilizing feats, that last bit is unlikely to actually stand. Especially since the statement about it, more applies just to soul society instead of every world.
 
Duedate8898 said:
As recently sighted by that thread about stabilizing feats, that last bit is unlikely to actually stand. Especially since the statement about it, more applies just to soul society instead of every world.
Click to expand...
I'd have to read it again, but the second the Soul King died the entire Bleach universe started shaking (indicating collapse). So I think the SK's stability feat might still be applicable. Especially considering that based on Aura's statement among Bleach's universe being likely a tier 2 construct, he's stabilizing a non-finite space.
 
If you can get it, then do so. But until then, I think that bit of justification should be put on pause.
 
True and maybe this should be put on pause until we get the cosmology blog to cement in the size of Bleach's universe to evaluate how the SK's stabilization holds with the new stability rules.

Seeing how right now it appears that question isn't whether the WSK's durability (and by extension TS Ichigo) scale and more so about the new wiki rules and some still unknown factors.
 
So the Soul King satisfies all requirements I’ve seen for the stabilization page.

Requirement 1: It’s obvious that the SK maintains the entire Cosmos we get statements numerous times that he holds everything together and that without him it’ll all collapse.

Requirement 2: It’s stabilized by his reiatsu which is in direct correlation to his power.

Requirement 3: We see that as soon as he dies the entire Cosmos begins to break down and be destroyed.

Requirement 4: Reiatsu scales to characters statistics in Bleach we all know this.

So with that in mind I want to bump this thread. As again no one addressed the fact that we see time and time again that if characters can’t withstand their own reiatsu they get crushed by their own power. Aka the SK’s durability should scale and so should TS Ichigo. You can find more in depth explanations above in this thread.
 
I got Almighty from my friend for 1 second, it told me:

1. Matthew is making a LONG CRT to downgrade the recent upgrades.
2. A lot of BS that can't be answered will be used to “debunk” the upgrades.
3. Damage is going to do a flashy-read and say “I agree with Matthew.”
4. After an hour or so, Damage 3-4 mod friends come and say “Matthew makes sense”.
5. Bleach is getting downgraded back to Damage’s CRT.
6. A rule will be spam a lot “Don’t try to upgrade Bleach based on the XXXX. The topic has already been done to death and debunked.

GG ultimate win! Almighty sees everything! But you can't prevent the Mod arrow!

g04vlpdm6vu21.png
 
Are u guys really crying over something like this? imagine something like that happening goodness get a grip. All u have to do is refute what they say and keep it moving it’s not the end of the world
 
BlackeJan said:
Are u guys really crying over something like this? imagine something like that happening goodness get a grip. All u have to do is refute what they say and keep it moving it’s not the end of the world
Click to expand...
Impliying that memebers have a say when mods have made up their mind
 
Then stand your ground. The same thing can be said for u (hypothetically) when u also have power to want things your way. Bring as much evidence u have as much as possible and make sure to prepare what u got
 
Hopefully a discussion is actually allowed to be had and the thread isn't just locked after 5 "I agree" comments.

If people are allowed to defend 3-A/Low 2-C Bleach and the staff members are impartial, then I don't really care what the outcome is.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I’ve got 12+ pages of prep, as Matt suggested I have “gotten ready”.
Click to expand...
good also info from garganta can be find on
Bleach manga; Chapter 625, page 13
Bleach manga; Chapter 241
Bleach manga; Chapter 234
Bleach Official Character Book 2 MASKED; page 130
Bleach manga; Chapter 45, page 2
Bleach Official Character Book UNMASKED; page 151
Bleach manga; Chapter 240, page 1
Bleach Official Character Book UNMASKED; page 149
Bleach manga; Chapter 315, pages 10-14
Bleach manga; Chapter 380, pages 12-19
Bleach manga; Chapter 234, page 8
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
So the Soul King satisfies all requirements I’ve seen for the stabilization page.

Requirement 1: It’s obvious that the SK maintains the entire Cosmos we get statements numerous times that he holds everything together and that without him it’ll all collapse.

Requirement 2: It’s stabilized by his reiatsu which is in direct correlation to his power.

Requirement 3: We see that as soon as he dies the entire Cosmos begins to break down and be destroyed.

Requirement 4: Reiatsu scales to characters statistics in Bleach we all know this.

So with that in mind I want to bump this thread. As again no one addressed the fact that we see time and time again that if characters can’t withstand their own reiatsu they get crushed by their own power. Aka the SK’s durability should scale and so should TS Ichigo. You can find more in depth explanations above in this thread.
Click to expand...
While the point on Reiatsu definitely points in Soul King's favor I do not believe all of the statements stand up to scrutiny.

The most direct statement for what the Soul King is doing is that he maintains Soul Society. After that, it's then made a point that everything is connected to the Soul Society, so it could just as easily be that the Soul King is only maintaining Soul Society and the part of the Soul Flow instead of everything at once. Especially since there is never any statements directly stating that the Soul King is maintaining all the worlds from what I can personally recall.

On the second bit, that is partially true. The Soul King isn't the only thing stabilizing the Bleach Cosmology. That in part falls to the cycle of souls which is also handled partially by the Soul Reapers and can be directly impacted without harming the Soul King to cause the collapse of said three worlds. Not to mention that the cycle in some form or shape also predates the Soul King, since him destroying hollows in the old world was slowly plunging it into some form of chaos. My main point here is that the Soul King is only one of the pillars and not the full thing that maintains Soul Society.

On the third bit, also partially true. Because there is actually a large amount of time between the death of the Soul King and the collapse of all of Soul Society. Several hours in fact. So it seems that the structure is able to consist partially on its own without the Soul King being present and alive

On the fourth point, something that also has to remember is that one can lower their durability in Bleach, Kenpachi is a prime example of this. And the Soul King is said to have allowed for his own imprisonment and mutilation, which wouldn't be possible without him lowering his passive Reiatsu. This mutilation is later down to Yhwach, by those who are very much inferior to him and shouldn't be able to compare to his passive Reiatsu if it truly is universal in durability in this stage.

All of this leads me to believe that True Shikai Ichigo, should not scale to universal by killing the Soul King.
 
AppleLord said:
I got Almighty from my friend for 1 second, it told me:

1. Matthew is making a LONG CRT to downgrade the recent upgrades.
2. A lot of BS that can't be answered will be used to “debunk” the upgrades.
3. Damage is going to do a flashy-read and say “I agree with Matthew.”
4. After an hour or so, Damage 3-4 mod friends come and say “Matthew makes sense”.
5. Bleach is getting downgraded back to Damage’s CRT.
6. A rule will be spam a lot “Don’t try to upgrade Bleach based on the XXXX. The topic has already been done to death and debunked.

GG ultimate win! Almighty sees everything! But you can't prevent the Mod arrow!

g04vlpdm6vu21.png
Click to expand...
A lot of Staffs members here cant judge something without going with their bias and being honest within their self
 
Duedate8898 said:
The most direct statement for what the Soul King is doing is that he maintains Soul Society. After that, it's then made a point that everything is connected to the Soul Society, so it could just as easily be that the Soul King is only maintaining Soul Society and the part of the Soul Flow instead of everything at once. Especially since there is never any statements directly stating that the Soul King is maintaining all the worlds from what I can personally recall.
Click to expand...
I could see the skeptic approach being valid, at worst it would make the WSK 4-A (albeit I argue that the realms are all 3-A in size and being time-spaces).

Duedate8898 said:
Several hours in fact. So it seems that the structure is able to consist partially on its own without the Soul King being present and alive
Click to expand...
Not true because immediately after he dies Yoruichi and Co rush up and "fix" him. Then later the Mimihagi does so in an instant.

Duedate8898 said:
something that also has to remember is that one can lower their durability in Bleach
Click to expand...
Doesn't take away from the passive reiatsu = minimum durability or the being crushed by your own reiatsu points. Admittedly you may not be referencing that, I just assume you are.

Duedate8898 said:
All of this leads me to believe that True Shikai Ichigo, should not scale to universal by killing the Soul King.
Click to expand...
Whatever tier the WSK is at, his durability should scale relative to (as he isn't crushed by his own reiatsu and he is maintaining whatever he is maintaining passively), and then TS Ichigo should scale to that. So if the WSK ends up being only 4-A or sumn, then TS Ichigo should climb.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Not true because immediately after he dies Yoruichi and Co rush up and "fix" him. Then later the Mimihagi does so in an instant.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about after that, Mimihagi and the Soul King are both long dead, yet Soul Society still remains after the initial burst of damage. Mimihagi is long dead and while Yhwach is absorbing the power of the Reio, Soul Society is still very much standing throughout the entire process without anymore signs of destruction being illustrated.

Arc7Kuroi said:
Doesn't take away from the passive reiatsu = minimum durability or the being crushed by your own reiatsu points. Admittedly you may not be referencing that, I just assume you are.
Click to expand...
It very much does. If a character can lower their durability, and we know for sure that the Soul King gave himself up then that leads credence into him having lowered his durability so as to be harmed by others. For the mutilation that was performed on him, which leads me to believe that his durability is far lower than his AP at the moment.
 
Duedate8898 said:
It very much does. If a character can lower their durability, and we know for sure that the Soul King gave himself up then that leads credence into him having lowered his durability so as to be harmed by others. For the mutilation that was performed on him, which leads me to believe that his durability is far lower than his AP at the moment.
Click to expand...
This draws entirely on the basis that he couldn't be damaged by the original nobles. Also he's a vegetable with no conscious, you can't really assume he's doing stuff like lower his durability and whatnot.

Duedate8898 said:
Yhwach is absorbing the power of the Reio, Soul Society is still very much standing throughout the entire process without anymore signs of destruction being illustrated.
Click to expand...
While Yhwach is absorbing the Reio he is stabilizing existence.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I'm talking about after that, Mimihagi and the Soul King are both long dead, yet Soul Society still remains after the initial burst of damage. Mimihagi is long dead and while Yhwach is absorbing the power of the Reio, Soul Society is still very much standing throughout the entire process without anymore signs of destruction being illustrated.
Click to expand...
Because at that point YH has already absorbed mimihagi
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
This draws entirely on the basis that he couldn't be damaged by the original nobles. Also he's a vegetable with no conscious, you can't really assume he's doing stuff like lower his durability and whatnot.
Click to expand...
Actually, I can assume since you know, your entire argument relies on his durability scaling to his AP and his AP back then was for sure Universal+, and as made clear within the series Soul King was considered the peak of strength within the series. We also just normally scale AP to durability. Not to mention that in CFYOW its mentioned that Reio maintained his will and guided Ichigo to himself. So if needed he should still be able to lower his durability, not to mention that several times while being used as lynchpin he was mutilated. And also to mention on top of that, Yhwach was also mutilated while being Soul King which going under what you're proposing would mean someone within squad zero is universal since, and correct me if I'm wrong, one of his arms was removed after his death.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Because at that point YH has already absorbed mimihagi
Click to expand...
And nothing is ever said about Yhwach maintaining Soul Society, nor isit really alluded to. And when he finally does decide to destroy Soul Society its in an attack instead of him releasing his control over the flow of souls.
 
We also just normally scale AP to durability.
Click to expand...

Other way around, unless you're talking about character to character scaling.
 
You do realize that as a vegetable the Soul King has no control over his own body. You can't suppress your power when you have no control over yourself, the Soul King can't speak, he can't eat, he can't sleep, he can't do anything aside from being there and be a living corpse
 
Dangai_Ichigo said:
You do realize that as a vegetable the Soul King has no control over his own body. You can't suppress your power when you have no control over yourself, the Soul King can't speak, he can't eat, he can't sleep, he can't do anything aside from being there and be a living corpse
Click to expand...
Corpses can stabilize universes?
 
Duedate8898 said:
And nothing is ever said about Yhwach maintaining Soul Society, nor isit really alluded to. And when he finally does decide to destroy Soul Society its in an attack instead of him releasing his control over the flow of souls.
Click to expand...
The whole "what keeps the balance is the control of souls" was proven to be a mistranslation and disproven
 
Duedate8898 said:
And nothing is ever said about Yhwach maintaining Soul Society, nor isit really alluded to. And when he finally does decide to destroy Soul Society its in an attack instead of him releasing his control over the flow of souls.
Click to expand...
Actually I think it was mentioned by Jugram in Bleach chapter 626 that with the Soul King gone Yhwach was maintaining the world. I am not sure how to post scans on here but pretty sure its there.
 
Duedate8898 said:
And nothing is ever said about Yhwach maintaining Soul Society, nor isit really alluded to. And when he finally does decide to destroy Soul Society its in an attack instead of him releasing his control over the flow of souls.
Click to expand...
Without the Soul King (or someone stepping in for the Soul King) everything will collapse ~ Kisuke

Duedate8898 said:
and as made clear within the series Soul King was considered the peak of strength within the series
Click to expand...
I don't understand this, never is it implicitly stated that the Prime Soul King > the whole verse (in terms of power).

Duedate8898 said:
Actually, I can assume since you know, your entire argument relies on his durability scaling to his AP and his AP back then was for sure Universal+
Click to expand...
I believe you're misrepresenting my argument. The WSK passively maintains whatever with his reiatsu -> insert Kenpachi's statement on passive reiatsu = minimum durability -> insert the various instances of people being crushed by their own reiatsu because they're bodies couldn't handle it -> conclusion the WSK's durability must be relative to his reiatsu and his reiatsu is relative to whatever he's maintaining thus so is the WSK's durability.

Duedate8898 said:
We also just normally scale AP to durability.
Click to expand...
I know but I'm still making the effort to prove so rather than just go off precedence.

Duedate8898 said:
And also to mention on top of that, Yhwach was also mutilated while being Soul King which going under what you're proposing would mean someone within squad zero is universal since, and correct me if I'm wrong, one of his arms was removed after his death.
Click to expand...
Using hax Ichibe could make his limbs as durable as ants.

Duedate8898 said:
So if needed he should still be able to lower his durability
Click to expand...
No his will manifesting does not mean he can lower his durability. It makes no narrative sense for the Soul King to have weak durability, or anyone willy nilly can sneak in and kill god.

KingTempest said:
Corpses can stabilize universes?
Click to expand...
I think technically the SK was neither dead nor alive, but more or less yeah.
 
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