BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[EldemadeDityjon]

Okay how is that relevant? I dont have a problem if Ginjo showed up and surpassed Aizen, my problem is that there are pure soul reapers who are claimed by you to reach the transcendence level and surpassing Aizen - who reached the state of God according to Kubo- for fighting Ginjo, Tsuki and other fullbringers, those soul reapers arent even the most powerful ones between soulreapers, so you had to powercliff any soul reaper who is stronger than them which led to almost every soul reaper surpassing Aizen and reaching that tier which doesnt fit into the story with CFYOW, and info about Aizen from the arrancar arc

Wait a minute is there any direct statement states that Ginjo is Transcended being

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ichigo, Hikone, and Ginjo all broke through their limiters thanks to being mixed races. Aizen and Yhwach did it via Reio's influence (Hogyoku and son of Reio). Kenpachi is the only dude who was just a plain regular Shinigami who broke the limits and reached godhood. Kenpachi Zaraki is that guy, he is built entirely different.

 

[YukaSama4]

Ichigo, Hikone, and Ginjo all broke through their limiters thanks to being mixed races. Aizen and Yhwach did it via Reio's influence (Hogyoku and son of Reio). Kenpachi is the only dude who was just a plain regular Shinigami who broke the limits and reached godhood. Kenpachi Zaraki is that guy, he is built entirely different.

Didn't Aura say that they need a Hogyoku for Hikone as well in order to make him reach the realm of Gods?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Naw that statement was for a much weaker Hikone.

Edit: iirc they say sumn similar about Ichigo and how they can give him a Hog and make him a Soul King, but Ichigo is still SK level.

 

[YukaSama4]

Naw that statement was for a much weaker Hikone.

Edit: iirc they say sumn similar about Ichigo and how they can give him a Hog and make him a Soul King, but Ichigo is still SK level.

Nah, for Ichigo they didn't mention SK, but thats fine I will check it later

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I wrote a lot about Hikone in the upgrade thread that’ll be posted in a day tops. So there’ll be more info there.

 

[BleachHollow]

Where are the Bleach gifts? I wanna see some presents

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

. Kenpachi Zaraki is that guy, he is built entirely different.

if only he was more haxed

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Where are the Bleach gifts? I wanna see some presents

Delayed until New Year

 

[Deceived3596]

Where are the Bleach gifts? I wanna see some presents

 

[Rebirth]

Speaking of zaraki's insane potential, we have this statement from unohana

 

[YukaSama4]

Unohana is weird, she even said that after Zaraki fought her and almost defeated her he restrained himself, but now he has rivals like Renji, Byakuya, and Ichigo so it's ok.

Im not sure how Renji can be a rival for Zaraki lmao

 

[Damage3245]

Unohana is weird, she even said that after Zaraki fought her and almost defeated her he restrained himself, but now he has rivals like Renji, Byakuya, and Ichigo so it's ok.

Im not sure how Renji can be a rival for Zaraki lmao

He can't be. Unohana must have been high when she was saying that. Or it's just Kubo's attempt to force Renji into relevancy.

 

[AppleLord]

Ichigo, Hikone, and Ginjo all broke through their limiters thanks to being mixed races. Aizen and Yhwach did it via Reio's influence (Hogyoku and son of Reio). Kenpachi is the only dude who was just a plain regular Shinigami who broke the limits and reached godhood. Kenpachi Zaraki is that guy, he is built entirely different.

Wasn’t he stated by Tousen to be a demon? He looks like one in his Bankai form maybe the Hell arc will explain his origins… he could be the new villian’s son.

 

[AppleLord]

He can't be. Unohana must have been high when she was saying that. Or it's just Kubo's attempt to force Renji into relevancy.

Sure. Kubo said Renji trained to surpassed Aizen. Let’s ignore that because it can’t happened. Unohana said Renji rivales him but let’s ignore that too because it can’t happened.

 

[AppleLord]

Well if Kubo came out and said they became far stronger because of Godly Reiatsu or whatever they used it will be fine, but since it was never mentioned we use the information that we have from Kisuke and Aizen about strengthening souls.

Yes? The only way to break the limits is hollowfication and soulreaperfication, not training nor Zenkai its impossible as Aizen and Kisuke both reached that answer.
You can argue that Fullbringers are influenced by Hollows, but you wont be able to explain how other soul reapers reached that level.

Yes, its the only choice you would pick if you want to push that scaling,.


Yes this is possible.


He is unique tho.

Everyone agrees on that lol

Yes? Aizen said thats the only way.



Okay how is that relevant? I dont have a problem if Ginjo showed up and surpassed Aizen, my problem is that there are pure soul reapers who are claimed by you to reach the transcendence level and surpassing Aizen - who reached the state of God according to Kubo- for fighting Ginjo, Tsuki and other fullbringers, those soul reapers arent even the most powerful ones between soulreapers, so you had to powercliff any soul reaper who is stronger than them which led to almost every soul reaper surpassing Aizen and reaching that tier which doesnt fit into the story with CFYOW, and info about Aizen from the arrancar arc

Ichibei is not a hybrid and he was able to fight and defeat Yhwach before the Almighty. Are you saying transcendent Aizen is stronger than Yhwach? The same guy who stomp Yamamoto who was stated to be above Byakuya and Yoruichi? Is there supposed to be a limit from none hybrids, then how come Yamamoto is stronger than Byakuya and Yoruichi? Yoruichi is understandable. But Byakuya? The same guy who ate some food and gained Super Reiatsu who is supposed to be above normal Reiatsu? It seems to me that every none transcendent’s Shinigami power limit is different for every individual.

 

[Damage3245]

Sure. Kubo said Renji trained to surpassed Aizen. Let’s ignore that because it can’t happened. Unohana said Renji rivales him but let’s ignore that too because it can’t happened.

Training to fighting people like Aizen =/= Surpassing Aizen.

 

[Rebirth]

TFW kubo himself had to come out state that none of the shinigami that trained surpassed aizen in an old interview IIRC

 

[RetroWeeeb]

Q: Renji trained hard to become stronger?

Kubo: Yes.

Q: Other people trained as well?

Kubo: Yes.

Q: So they wouldn’t be troubled by even Aizen-level opponents?

Kubo: They’re not quite at that level (laughs). What can I say, they’ve become stronger. But even so, they haven’t gotten to the point where they’re not worried about Aizen-level opponents (laughs).

During the break between the Fullbring arc and TYBW arc, Kubo said in this interview (look at the 6th Division section) that none of the post-timeskip Shinigami had surpassed Aizen.

Q: Is that all that’s changed?

Kubo: I think Genryuusai wouldn’t change much from his current state if he trained. Wouldn’t it be strange for someone who’s lived for over two thousand years to change over a period of 17 months? However, he does have unseen, inner changes.

Kubo also claims that Yamamoto has gotten to a point where he wouldn't get much stronger through training, meaning that he should still be relative to his pre-timeskip self.

 

[Rebirth]

The interview scan can be found at the 2:12 mark.

The fullbring arc characters > mugetsu meta stans do be coping tho

 

[Rebirth]

During the break between the Fullbring arc and TYBW arc, Kubo said in this interview (look at the 6th Division section) that none of the post-timeskip Shinigami had surpassed Aizen.


Kubo also claims that Yamamoto has gotten to a point where he wouldn't get much stronger through training, meaning that he should still be relative to his pre-timeskip self.

During the break between the Fullbring arc and TYBW arc, Kubo said in this interview (look at the 6th Division section) that none of the post-timeskip Shinigami had surpassed Aizen.


Kubo also claims that Yamamoto has gotten to a point where he wouldn't get much stronger through training, meaning that he should still be relative to his pre-timeskip self.

Thanks for posting the full thing lol. So I guess that means yama almost reached his peak as a shinigami then, interesting.

 

[YukaSama4]

Ichibei is not a hybrid and he was able to fight and defeat Yhwach before the Almighty. Are you saying transcendent Aizen is stronger than Yhwach?

Yes.

The same guy who stomp Yamamoto who was stated to be above Byakuya and Yoruichi? Is there supposed to be a limit from none hybrids, then how come Yamamoto is stronger than Byakuya and Yoruichi? Yoruichi is understandable. But Byakuya? The same guy who ate some food and gained Super Reiatsu who is supposed to be above normal Reiatsu? It seems to me that every none transcendent’s Shinigami power limit is different for every individual.

Yes it's different, I never said all of them have the same limit, we all know that nobles can reach a higher level than normal soul reaper, my point still stands, each soul reaper has a limit, but you are making every soul reaper can reach God level in order to make your FB scaling be accepted.

During the break between the Fullbring arc and TYBW arc, Kubo said in this interview (look at the 6th Division section) that none of the post-timeskip Shinigami had surpassed Aizen.


Kubo also claims that Yamamoto has gotten to a point where he wouldn't get much stronger through training, meaning that he should still be relative to his pre-timeskip self.

GG

 

[YukaSama4]

So assuming that interview is correct, Aizen is still a threat to the entire Gotei

 

[YukaSama4]

Q: Is that all that’s changed?

Kubo: I think Genryuusai wouldn’t change much from his current state if he trained. Wouldn’t it be strange for someone who’s lived for over two thousand years to change over a period of 17 months? However, he does have unseen, inner changes.

That's all whats needed tbh, God Aizen >>> Post time skip Yamamoto >>>> Byakuya ~ Tsukishima
@Arc7Kuroi is this interview correct? or the translation is wrong or it doesn't even exist?

 

[Rebirth]

Just finished reading everything. Yh kubo really did personally kill off the Fullbring ichigo > mugetsu meta lmao

 

[AppleLord]

During the break between the Fullbring arc and TYBW arc, Kubo said in this interview (look at the 6th Division section) that none of the post-timeskip Shinigami had surpassed Aizen.


Kubo also claims that Yamamoto has gotten to a point where he wouldn't get much stronger through training, meaning that he should still be relative to his pre-timeskip self.

Okay. What does Shinigami been weaker than current Aizen have anything to do with transcendent Aizen?

 

[AppleLord]

The interview scan can be found at the 2:12 mark.

The fullbring arc characters > mugetsu meta stans do be coping tho

I never claimed they were stronger than Mugetsu.

 

[Rebirth]

Okay. What does Shinigami been weaker than current Aizen have anything to do with transcendent Aizen?

He literally gave you a scale based on kubo confirming that yama didn't get any stronger during the timeskip:

Monster aizen > butterfly aizen > TYBW/FB/FKT arc yama > CFYOW shunsui, byakuya etc

 

[Rebirth]

I never claimed they were stronger than Mugetsu.

I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm referring to the meta that argues that fullbring ichigo and all those who scale to him are stronger than mugetsu and hog aizen

 

[AppleLord]

He literally gave you a scale based on kubo confirming that yama didn't get any stronger during the timeskip:

Monster aizen > butterfly aizen > TYBW/FB arc yama > CFYOW shunsui, byakuya etc

I’m not denying the Yamamoto scaling at all. I’m asking why do Kubo mentioning that the Shinigami are weaker than Muken Aizen matters?

Muken Aizen >>> Transcendent Aizen

 

[YukaSama4]

Okay. What does Shinigami been weaker than current Aizen have anything to do with transcendent Aizen?

Muken Aizen wasn't there at that time, why would Kubo answer using an Aizen that nobody knows about him? At that point, we all thought that Aizen has gotten back to his Shinigami level because of what Ichigo said, so its either base Aizen or transcendent Aizen, IDC which one would you pick the result will lead to something against the FB scaling

 

[AppleLord]

Muken Aizen wasn't there at that time, why would Kubo answer using an Aizen that nobody knows about him? At that point, we all thought that Aizen has gotten back to his Shinigami level because of what Ichigo said, so its either base Aizen or transcendent Aizen, IDC which one would you pick the result will lead to something against the FB scaling

I stopped reading after your first sentence.

I read all of the interview. This was after the Fullbring Arc (which already did the 17 month time skip) and Kubo was talking about the future of the TYBW arc in this interview. In said interview he said he wanted to draw Aizen in restraints. Kubo already knew Muken Aizen got stronger than Transcendent Aizen.

He ain’t talking about Transcendent Aizen but Muken Aizen still been a treat to the Gotei 13.

 

[YukaSama4]

I stopped reading after your first sentence.

I read all of the interview. This was after the Fullbring Arc (which has a 17 month time skip) and Kubo was talking about the future of the TYBW arc in this interview. In said interview he said he wanted to draw Aizen in restraints. Kubo already knew Muken Aizen got stronger than Transcendent Aizen.

He ain’t talking about Transcendent Aizen but Muken Aizen still been a treat to the Gotei 13.

You didn't get my point, I know it was after the FB arc.
The one who asked him would have no way to know about Muken Aizen level, so his question wasn't about him, if that's the case why would Kubo answer by talking about an Aizen that nobody knows about even the one who asked, it doesn't make any sense

 

[YukaSama4]

The one who asked him would have no way to know about Muken Aizen level

Because at that point no one even knew that Aizen got stronger, even Kubo didn't say that in the interview, we all thought that he became a soul reaper again and lost all of his powers because he finally found a rival.

 

[AppleLord]

You didn't get my point, I know it was after the FB arc.
The one who asked him would have no way to know about Muken Aizen level, so his question wasn't about him, if that's the case why would Kubo answer by talking about an Aizen that nobody knows about even the one who asked, it doesn't make any sense

He doesn’t need to know. The Author knows. You saw how he spoiled the Quincy been the next thread without saying it was the Quincy? He even spoiled Unohana’s fight and other stuff from the arc. Kubo knows going into the new arc the characters aren’t on his level yet. Is not like the one making the questions or the author created this different code names (transcendent or Muken Aizen) to differentiate the two, to him its just Aizen.

 

[Rebirth]

I stopped reading after your first sentence.

I read all of the interview. This was after the Fullbring Arc (which already did the 17 month time skip) and Kubo was talking about the future of the TYBW arc in this interview. In said interview he said he wanted to draw Aizen in restraints. Kubo already knew Muken Aizen got stronger than Transcendent Aizen.

He ain’t talking about Transcendent Aizen but Muken Aizen still been a treat to the Gotei 13.

The whole context surrounding the interviewer's question and renji's statement was pertaining to FKT aizen (base or hog, likely hog) as nobody had any reason to assume that aizen got any stronger after his defeat, this is backed up in the scene when renji and kisuke are freaking out over the notion of aizen getting stronger than his previous forms.

As such it'd make more sense if kubo was referring to FKT aizen as he's answering the question taking the knowledge that the reader/interviewer as well as the bleach characters have about the state of aizen's power at the time of the interview (start of 2012).

 

[AppleLord]

Because at that point no one even knew that Aizen got stronger, even Kubo didn't say that in the interview, we all thought that he became a soul reaper again and lost all of his powers because he finally found a rival.

Kubo spoiled stuff from the arc before it event released in that interview, so him not mentioning that Aizen got stronger isn’t a valid argument.

 

[AppleLord]

The whole context surrounding the interviewer's question and renji's statement was pertaining to FKT aizen (base or hog, likely hog) as nobody had any reason to assume that aizen got any stronger after his defeat, this is backed up in the scene when renji and kisuke are freaking out over the notion of aizen getting stronger than his previous forms.

As such it'd make more sense if kubo was referring to FKT aizen as he's answering the question taking the knowledge that the reader/interviewer as well as the bleach characters have about the state of aizen's power at the time of the interview (start of 2012).

He is answering a question after the time skip in present tense.

 

[YukaSama4]

He doesn’t need to know. The Author knows. You saw how he spoiled the Quincy been the next thread without saying it was the Quincy? He even spoiled Unohana’s fight and other stuff from the arc. Kubo knows going into the new arc the characters aren’t on his level yet. Is not like the one making the questions or the author created this different code names (transcendent or Muken Aizen) to differentiate the two, to him it’s the same one.

What? Imagine if I asked you about something and you answered by something else that has nothing to do with the purpose of my question, that would be a clear deception, Kubo knows that nobody knows about it, and thus they will be asking about comparing them to sth that they know which is base Aizen or Transcendent Aizen.

Apple: Who is stronger Ichigo or Kazui?

Kubo: Kazui is stronger (talking about adult Kazui 150 years after that nobody knows about)

Would that make sense to you? ofc not, Kubo should be talking about something that we know and understand, other than that his answer wouldn't make any sense, you can't ask someone about sth and he answers by sth else while knowing that it's not the thing you are asking about.

 

[YukaSama4]

Kubo spoiled stuff from the arc before it event released in that interview, so him not mentioning that Aizen got stronger isn’t a valid argument.

Yes, him spoiling things when the question is about it or can mean it is fine, not when I ask you apple how many pushups can you do? and you answer by 200 while thinking about urself after 3 years of training